📅 Mar 8 19.00 GMT
Have you met the Pro League? Things happen, like penalty strokes and their takings. Cards get thrown all over the shop. It's pretty fun to talk about, ngl. We'll also get into the thorny issue of when talking to players can be coaching. Let's dive in!
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Happy What Up Wednesday everybody. I hope you're doing great. I'm glad that you're here on what is apparently everywhere in Europe and the UK and et cetera, et cetera. Well, I'm sure it's not all over Europe. You can't all have snow. That would be a freak of nature and incredible and yeah, just can't be a thing.
I have snow. Do you wanna see pictures of my snow? It's been here for six months, but it's still snow. Hi, it's What Up Wednesday. And I'm Keely Dunn. And we are FH Umpires. And we are the FH Umpires third team. And I took last week off. Did anybody notice if you didn't? Totally fine. That was my intention. I decided I wasn't gonna do an announcement.
I wasn't gonna be all, you know, I just thought break. I'm just gonna break. And it was good. It was good. I managed to plan a whole bunch of things that I didn't do. , having conversations with my mastermind folks is all about, you know, should we do a whole show on just what we try to get done? And we don't.
Wouldn't that be fun? And I said, uh, I would talk for the whole hour. That would be great. Anyway, I noticed that there's lots of people in here live who normally can't be like Sebastian William apparently just has better things to do. That's fine. Whatever. Not mad, uh, but Simon Milford is here and hasn't been here for a while.
Uh, Nick, it's good to see you and Denman. Stop it. Just stop it. Just No, please, please. And morning Morning wine for Rachel. I was at breakfast with my father yesterday, not yesterday, Monday I go for breakfast with my dad every Monday morning and there we were, 9:30 and turn and there was a gentleman sitting at the bar having a breakfast beer with his eggs.
And I thought, alright, you, you know, may, maybe you just got off the night shift and, and whatever, and maybe you're doing this is a good thing for you. Who knows? Uh, Cat here as well is here. Uh, Joren van den Bosse. Do, do we know each other. I'm gonna give you. Welcome. I'm glad you're here and I hope you enjoy the discussion that we are about to, uh, engage with.
Okay. Stijn says it's not snowing, but it's raining, at least in Antwerp, and a tricks is here. All of the tricks. The tricky trick, trick, uh, y There you go. Uh, you just finished cooking, so you're gonna enjoy your dinner. Alright, let's not get all, let's not get all talking about food right now. I have a job to do.
It's very serious. Ed is here. Hello. No practice because of bad weather. Okay. Yay. Oh, regards from Taco. Oh, I hope he's doing okay. I'm gonna send him a note. Uh, please pass all my regards, but I will send him a note. Um, Cat, remind me to send a note to Taco later. Okay. Please just help me. . Uh, there you go. No ad's been here before.
Ad has been here before. Uh, jolt is here. Always bring in the spice. I appreciate the points and the, you know, the little digs, jolt. You're one of my favorites, so thank you. You just don't have time to watch this live after I've just said nice things about you. Oh, Savage fairy, Savage Godders his hair.
Fantastic. Lee is here as well. Peter Winter. Hi. And of course, Steffan. Steffan, it's been a few weeks, so I was starting to get a little worried, but I figured you were just really busy with something. I don't know how that could be more important than this, but, but there you are. Okay. This is what we're getting into today.
Here are topics we're gonna talk about, a penalty, stroker attack, a penalty, stroke, attacker, foot on the line, a penalty, stroke, video referral, multiple cards in a small cluster and proactive communication versus coaching. Which is a topic that came up on the server and I wanted to spend some time really diving into it because I think it's worth us sorting it out and does that, see, this is what happens for me.
It comes up with hand blue, purple piece, blue piece. I don't know, it's probably one of those. Good to see you Roy. Thanks for popping in and hi Andrew. Okay, let's get into our first topic. Hopefully remember how to do this. It's been 10 days and I feel like, I feel like it's the first time. Shh. No comments.
Here we are. Wait. Here we are. Penalty strokes it. Stroke attacker's. Foot on the line. Goalkeepers left. Adam. Score a hat trick if she finishes on three. She has scored seven in a game before. So this came out of the Pro League series down in New Zealand. China was there against the usa, the US were there, New Zealand was obviously there cuz they were hosting.
And there was some conversation about this particular stroke taker. And Simon Mason noticed on this particular stroke that she had a bit of unusual footwork. And I wanted to dive into it sort of quickly because it's an interesting question. And the poll when, uh, when Cat has an opportunity to have a look at it, is what would your call be on in this situation?
Would it be a goal? Would it be a retake? Would it be a free hit for the defense? Would you throw confetti on the field? What would your call be in this situation? Because you don't see this very often. Okay. Very Calgary like in Scotland. There you go. Okay. So have lots of looks at this and maybe what I'll do for context, I, I cut that portion out of the clip that I edited, but edited.
But Simon Mason did mention that this player got hauled up on this, on her penalty stroke earlier. So I went back through about seven of China's games just prior to this and couldn't find one where number two stepped up and had this, had, had, had a decision made on one of her penalty strokes. I did find this instance here and it looks very much like, is that the same one?
Double? No, that's.
I may have accidentally programmed the same one. Let's try this and see if it looks a different. Nope, that's the very same one. Fantastic. Anyway, the point being , I didn't find one where a penalty stroke was ruled out. So let's explore this and um, hi David. Good to see you first of all. And can I please give you a little bit of love because you remembered, even though you are not a hockey person, even though you're not a hockey umpire, the dragging is a question involved in penalty strokes.
That's not what is in contention here, but one of the even less known, less paid attention to rules. So let's have a quick look at that. I'm just gonna hide that one for a second. But this is, uh, the first several sub clauses of 13.7, and we can see the rule specifically states that the player taking the stroke must stand behind.
Is this gonna work?
Okay. Must stand behind. And I can turn on the, the graphic. Don't be all like that. I know what you're already thinking. You're already thinking this Keely. She's, she's lost track of stuff. You're absolutely right. So the player must stand behind the stroke and within playing distance of the ball before beginning.
What does stand behind actually mean? And why do we care? This is what I want to talk about because I'm not super sure how much I care about this. Okay. I'll go back to the replay. I'm gonna dive into your comments a little bit. I hope. Hope that the poll is up. I don't have the right screen going on live.
I can go into the studio. Let's just see.
Go Live is terrifying in YouTube studio. Don't do it. Don't to. David's already said that he would like a free hit for the defense. There you go. Polling motion, not a pushing flicking motion is what we'd be looking for. So Andrew, I'm not sure if you're declaring, if you're responding to what dragging is, or you are asserting that dragging is happening in this situation.
I'd like to hear that. Front foot goes a long way forwards, but back foot is still in front of the goal. So everybody's talking about the dragging. I believe this is the logical fallacy of the red herring that we just dangled a little bit in front of you about dragging and. David, you. You led everybody down a garden path here.
Kudos to you, sir. Kudos to you Ben Horton. You don't know whether you'd penalize the auction, either retake or goal because it was scored. It can't be a free hit. Defense. Surely this is one of my favorite UKs. When y'all ask a question and you say, surely after ab, because if you're sure, why are you asking a question?
Hmm. I think it means that you're not sure and you're correct not to be sure. It's a wise choice to ask a question in this situation and try to flush it out rather than to make a statement that something surely is one way or the other. For Nick, it's a goal for him. If there had been, if there had been an issue with it, you're about to receive a learning point and there you go.
Denman, how do you define standing behind? Okay, there you go. Asserting. The front foot is not behind the ball and so does the front foot define where somebody is standing. I wanna make sure we're in agreement about that. If that is what the consensus view is, then it starts leading us down a particular thing.
But if we're looking at body position a little bit more and that sort of thing, if I'm gonna be consistent about what I feel about dragging the ball on the penalty stroke, then the foot position is everything. The foot position is what we determine what is behind, what is in front, all that sort of thing.
So hand up right now. Alright, I got, I have to eat my dinner here. It's by the foot position. And Steven . You're not, you're not. Sorry David, you're not sorry. And I'm okay with that. And Peter, before beginning the stroke. Absolutely. This is a really good point as well. Before beginning the stroke, nothing prescribed during the ball moving action goal for you.
Or maybe if we say that a little bit more clearly, we'd say before beginning the stroke is, hang on, let me pull up the, the clause again.
What, at what point is before beginning the stroke and what begins the stroke? There's a lot of. A lot of rules in this, a lot of phrases in this that we don't think about that are undefined and I'm still asking the question. Feel free to pick it up. Anybody. I'm still asking the question. Doesn't matter.
Okay. Let me know cuz maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Um, let's see. That is Steven's comment here. It's whether the stroke, when is the stroke started being taken? The front foot is level when the ball starts moving. She's certainly, let me just, I mean, I don't, I don't think I, I really need to pause. This is really good camera work for once where we see.
Right here. I mean, angles can always be an issue. We all understand that, but I think we can say with fair certainty that that is not behind, that is not behind that. That is in fact in line with the ball. So for all of you who have taken penalty strokes in your lifetime, you've trained the skill, you've scored goals, you have missed medal winning matches by taking a penalty stroke wide.
I mean, I'm not talking about anybody in particular, definitely not me, but for those of you who train this skill, what does the foot position mean for a potential advantage that you gain in this situation? So when we talk about dragging and we talk about what it looks like when a player is able to, um, Hey, any time that you wanna start playing, that would be super cool.
I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna do this. Okay. So we know that the foot position is crucial about determining what a drag is, is because the ball can be picked up from behind the player's body. It can be pulled along, and then it can be released closer to the goal, which shortens the distance, makes it harder for the goalkeeper to anticipate the direction of the ball, blah, blah, blah.
Does that same action, does that same factor come into play? With the front foot. Does the front foot being in line with the ball or being ahead of the ball mean that the player can release the ball closer to the goal? For example, can they impart a significant greater amount of power to the ball? That is what I'm wondering.
And somebody's mouse is just not awake. Hi. I'm gonna keep talking while I troubleshoot
and boogie. Okay? Um, while I wake up my track pad and get this moving.
Nope, it's just disappeared. This is fun you guys. This is really fun.
Leah at the very start, her foot appears to be level or slightly in front of the ball before the step. It's a goal for Godder. And then if I could scroll, I'd be able to tell you more.
There. There, there. Gotcha. I found it.
So whoever put their money on within the first 20 minutes, you win. You win. Okay, Andrew? Yeah. Exa. Okay, great. Andrew, you're asking the same question because I failed to read ahead. Is standing behind involving a hundred percent of the body. Is it 95? Is it less than 50%? Oh, Rado, good to see you. The stick is in contact before the foot is on the ground.
No drag. So goal? Yeah, definitely not a, not a drag. I agree. Uh, Ad, the last foot is standing still on the spot. So it's a goal for you, you say. Goal says Steffan, the player is taking a large step forward. The rear foot is still in front of the ball. Uh, I think you mean still behind the ball Sticks is in full contact and it's pushed forward.
Okay, just a thought. Ooh, I like these. I like thoughts. You not sure if you agree. Of course. That's okay. Thank you for disclaiming. Your own thought for a pc. Standing behind the line means both feet need to be behind the ball. Would it be the same here? Um, let's see. For the pc, both feet need to be behind the ball.
Where does a come into play? Are you referring to rule 13.5 where the player injecting the ball has to have at least one foot outside the field? And this is the interesting part. This is what I immediately thought of when I looked at 13.7 and I thought, well, there's not a specific rule that explains to us that this is not a big deal.
So this knowing that if a, an attacker has lined up improperly and. As an injector, I can tell you that if I didn't have to have one of my feet outside the line, I would be able to drag with much more force. I'd be able to cut down the distance, the ball travels, cuz I could drag that injection from behind me and pull it into the field and then release it with more force, maybe more accuracy.
That would always be helpful. And even if that's done, even if that's the case, we say, eh, if that goes to a video referral,
a goal will stand. We know that. It's just a technicality that nobody cares about. And then for us here, if you catch it on the field, then the penalty corner is just taken again. Okay, so if it's, if it's noticed in the moment, the ball is injected and everybody has broken at the correct time, everybody else was lined up properly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We just take it again. So, uh, Tristan, is this a case of the rules not being able to fully cover the edge cases of what you can do at a penalty stroke? Oh yeah. You don't say . You mean there's something that's not explicitly covered in the rules? Absolutely. This is pr this is rare. And why I believe it's rare is cuz I don't think it gives you much of an advantage at all.
I don't think it changes anything because as long as your back foot is where it needs to be, which isn't explicitly defined by the rules, but is what I consider to be the line in the, the, the hotline in the sand for whether a dragging motion has occurred or not. But it, as long as the back foot and her back foot is well behind the ball.
So even though she steps, you know, she can start there, she lifts up her foot before she starts dragging the ball. So who knows where her foot actually is, except before the stroke is taken. Arguably it's in line with the ball. But once she steps forward like that, is she, does that make, does the fact that she starts with her foot there mean that she can step further forward on the stroke?
I don't think it does. I just don't see how this could matter. But I'm here to listen to, like you, I, I wanna gather the information cuz I've never had to think about this before. Like this. Is it like the whole ball over the hole? The line, the whole body behind the ball? Yeah. But how can you, how can you determine that, Peter?
Because body shape and, and how people lean and where they stand. I don't, I don't wanna have to make that kind of determination. It seems dumb behind the line on PC is the rule. Okay. Um, so it should be the same for the penalty stroke. Okay. So, oh, you mean for defending a penalty corner, the players have to be behind the line, but the players, yeah.
Their feet have to be behind the line, but not their bodies. They can be leaning across the plane of the imaginary line that extends upwards into the sky. Their stick can be extended into the pitch so long as it's not touching the ground and a player can move their feet. Absolutely right. Rado? Very true.
Uh, Stijn if the foot position is init. Yeah. And of course, This is, this is the core and I bet I'm clapping and you can't hear it, which is a real shame because actually it's better for yours. But this is the thing, this is a proactive step, something that you just wanna correct before the stroke is even taken, before the penalty corner is taken.
You wanna shuffle the players behind the line, uh, who are defending. You wanna get the injector's feet aligned properly.
Otherwise it's a gotcha, nobody likes it. Gotcha. If the stroke doesn't say it has to be one food motion anyway, she can start behind it, stationary, do little dance, and then play it. Um, yeah, I mean, she can't faint. So fluid motion, let's not get, let's not gut into that rabbit hole. That'll be really bad. God the feeder behind before she starts her motion to take.
Well, it depends on when you define the motion to take, right? Goers. Hi Ryan. We're doing great. Thanks for, thanks for coming in. Yeah. Uh, do, do, do. Hello, esk. Good to see you. And I am glad that you're here live. Either way, neither umpire could tell. Surely there's the Shirley again.
I'm gonna hammer that out of everybody along with short corner, shuffles, long corner, all those yards. Um, the filming company in New Zealand usually do rugby and they're very professional. They had good chats to set up the good angles overall. Yeah, that's, they did a great job. Fantastic. If the umpire spotted this not being level, would they be allowed to mention it?
Would that be coaching? Um, let's not jump to question three or topic three, two. Early. Denman, you clever gentleman. You,
so your argument Blair here is that she gains an advantage transferring her weight, but the transfer of weight is where she generates her power. But can she transfer that weight more effectively? The further our head, her foot starts before she goes to play the ball. When you watch most stroke takers, in order to generate the most power, and when they got rid of the hole, you had to start within a stick length of the ball, all that kind of thing.
On the pome strokes, When players could start playing distance away and it got a little bit further, cuz you know, whatever players like me, I will take my three steps, I'll do my crab step in order to generate my power, power being in air quotes. And the fact that I can start a little bit further away and build my momentum towards the ball is how I can actually get more power into that stroke.
So starting with your weight forward and then going even more forward.
Right. So that's my question. I don't, I see this as a, as a disadvantage really, because her weight's already quite forward and then she just tries to go even more forward. Right? Like, what am I missing? What am I missing here?
Um, is a retake. Only if a goalkeeper foul. No goal or defender shoots before the whistle. Any other attacker foul is a free hit defense. Excellent question. Let's make sure. Now you see what I could have done is I could have said, yeah, but we're gonna check the rules because it's the right thing to do.
Okay, so I'm getting to set 13.7. Here we go. Do, do I have so many places I can look.
Okay . I'm like, where will my glasses focus the best? Nowhere. So the player defending the stroke must stand with their feet on the goal line. And when they're in there. Okay, so we've got H here, which is the player taking the stroke must not take into the whistles blown. Okay. We have next page
and then we have 13, nine. That's the section I should have started with. The stroke is taken before the whistle is blown and gold scored the penalty. Stroke is taken again, the stroke is taken before the whistle is blown and a goal is not scored. Then a free push is awarded to the defense. Okay. So they just give up their opportunity.
So that's kind of like, that's kind of like a, um, a, it's kind of like a foul being blown. Okay. So, and that's a retake. Any other offense by the player taking the stroke of free pushes Word to the defense. . Okay, so that is according to the rules. That's how you would in, you should interpret that rule. If the player, if the attacker takes the stroke and the front foot is in line, they're not starting behind the ball, starting in line is not good enough, then should be a free hit to the front.
Technically, from a coaching perspective, the distance of the rear foot, the ball determines the amount of drag a player can part the ball. Yep. That's why you see many players. Let's see if you finish this thought, I don't know where it is. Can I freeze when the first, when the stick first touches the bald step?
Looks like it takes place before this to you. Okay.
I know why it's not doing that. Okay. Oops. So let's see what I can do here to help out in this situation.
Okay, so the stick is not in contact with the ball here, and oh,
stick is still not in contact with the ball. Foot is up and clearly ahead. Okay. And that's basically where pickup is.
Maybe what would be helpful is to compare, and I know this is getting really academic and in the weeds we've met, this is what I do, but it is an interesting point to figure out the different stances that players are dressing the ball in when they actually gather the ball
and how that impacts. Okay. So let's see. So as a defender. Okay, gotcha. Okay. Yeah. But we all know that when it comes to these big decisions, getting back to Blair's point here about gaining any advantage, the the callery is, I know I'm going back and forth on this. The callery is, but the rule is just, it's there and when it comes to.
Penalty strokes when it comes to the ball going over the line. When it comes to these things. Are we applying what we understand to be, eh, nobody cares. So we're just gonna go ahead and play this. Is that the right way to handle this?
Uh, Sebastian in 13.6, many injectors raise their foot while injecting during a pc, which is then no longer outside. But nor is it inside yet. Nobody seems to care. Should they? Many injectors. So, which foot are they raising? Sebastian? I don't wanna assume if you're talking about the back foot, maybe you are yarn.
Let me see if I can get this moving again. Will it play? No.
Let's try this.
If both steep feet start behind the ball, then the attacker can make an extra step before playing the ball. So even if you can't start in this position, you can always release it like this. Right. Good point. I like that. Jorn. Thank you. Your gut. I oof. Your gut is now a stroke award for something egregious or denying a good opportunity in the case of nitpicking over a centimeter.
So don't be over. Vicious. Good instinct, Simon. Uh, the foots in the air, but behind the plane of the back line is still outside the field of play. But,
but we don't apply that criterion to penalty corner defending. Right. Her arms work. How her arms work shows a pushing motion as well. Yeah, no. Yeah. And we're not talking about a drag . Okay. I don't care whether it's a drag cuz the. It for me. It's totally not a drag. The question is, there's an explicit rule that this breaks.
It's this one. This is the rule sub D. Okay.
This is the rule.
Okay. The dragging thing comes later in the closets.
Right. Okay. Let's get this pole closed. Sure. . And don't call me Shirley. Hi. In. Uh, okay. I will see you on the catch up, Freddy. The deception is caused due to the drag from the step Freddy. There is no drag here. No. Nope, nope. I'm shutting it down. There is no drag here. Do not use that word because it doesn't qualify.
Her back foot has to be in front of the ball in order for her to pull that ball from behind her, which is the opposite of pushing, which is what a stroke may be, which is a push, oh my God. 45 minutes. Okay. No, no, nope, nope, nope. Sorry. All the momentum Nick is saying from can be transferred to the ball when the front pushes, pushes off the ground, leading the hands, collecting the momentum like a golf swing.
Hmm. Okay. Rado wants me to move on. Okay. Let's see if I can get this pole closed. Good call. I'm sorry I'm, I've lost my edge. Lost my edge.
Here we go.
So half of you want the goal. 40% of you want a free hit defense and 6% of you want a retake that is as absolutely ambiguous as possible. Wow. . Wow. Ambiguous, ambivalent, ambiguous.
I dunno what I can say here, because I feel that this is one of those unaddressed corners of our rules. It does not confer any kind of advantage whatsoever. And in applying common sense, which is always for me, the guiding principle, like I always try to get back to how does this affect what the player is able to do?
Does it confer upon them an unfair advantage in this situation? To me, it absolutely does not. This is one of those rules that
because dragging is not defined, because dragging has not been properly addressed under the rules, you have this silly thing which is archaic, irrelevant, and really shouldn't matter whatsoever. So if the rule was more the back foot cannot step in front of the ball before it is played, that would take care of ev everything.
So please give me the rule book, I'll rewrite it and everything will be fine.
Um, let's see.
And my mouse is migrating again. Okay. The, yeah, I'll just quickly address a couple things. Uh, no, doesn't matter. And John, whistle timing doesn't matter. We're not talking about if she takes the ball, if she plays the ball before the whistle blows. So that's completely relevant. Uh, sounds like a football off side in line is ahead still a goal for Simon.
Okay. Yes. Okay. Well that was long. Let's move on because Rado has said we're gonna go into this video referral from penalty stroke. This I thought was not gonna be interesting and then turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Popped up in the server, so thank you very much. I think it was Ben who pulled this one out.
Real pace on that ball for Ray
upstairs here. Jesus. Okay. IIA is doing a good job getting his teammate away. He's addressing it. He can't review. Review and trying to get there first. Got there first.
Can't review. Review. Oh, annoying. Have a whole look at this team. Spain. Yep. They're looking for a bad stroke inside the circle. Can you please check? So the request is for a penalty stroke.
Coming together between Dawon
asking whether or not it was actually firing. It's hard to tell from that
with the left arm by Dawon forearm though I'm letting you watch it. I'm gathering my thoughts as well. I'm looking forward to your thoughts here. Watch that Armon there just extends, doesn't it? So there's an attempted interception here that distance by the defender doesn't go up for it there. So this watch the left Armon here.
Yeah. Really turns him. He just extends the arm, doesn't he?
Real attempt to play the ball, decide whether that is a stroke or not. The interesting part here is that I don't think they even had to ask for a penalty stroke. There is no goalkeeper for Australia. They're down a goal. They've pulled their goalkeeper. Whether they win a penalty corner or a penalty stroke gives them probably an equal chance to score straight away.
Because remember, if a penalty corner is called the goalkeeper can't come back in. On the goal line, if a penalty stroke is called the goalkeeper can come back in, watch his reaction now straight up. So which would you actually what? What do you really need? penalty corner.
Okay, so Cookie was very clear in her language to make sure she said penalty corner and regu was penalty corner. Okay, got it. They got that. So we have four separate sort of issues in this play that I can see. The first one being on the aerial, the clear initial receiver is the Spanish attacker and the attempted interception is within five meters within playing distance and is dangerous.
And is a free hit. However, what you would hope is that advantage can be played here because what you actually don't wanna do, and I'm not talking about what actually happened here, but I want you to put together all the pieces in your mind if something similar to this happens for you, because you don't want to hinder the attacking team with the necessity of stopping the ball in the right place, making sure it goes five meters before it goes inside the circle.
What is the best option for the fouled team here they can play on from this? Okay. The best option is to not have to play a free hit. The best option is just to keep going because the overrunning, attempted interceptor is out of the picture. So let the player go. Just just let them go. Okay, so that's the first thing I want you to think about.
How is advantage changed when the foul was inside the five meter dotted line, and the consequences of that? Okay. And then we can talk about if you, if you have awarded a free hit here, does the ball go five meters before it goes into the circle? It's close, but I think it's there cuz there's a little bit of changes direction.
It's not straight at the circle. And then right at the last second there's a little bit of an angle off. So if the ball is this far inside of the dotted line and then it goes a little bit that way, I think it's five meters. So that wouldn't have been overturned. That's issue number two. And then you get to the defender action here.
So what I want you to focus on, I'm not sure if everybody's looking at that, but that is the ground on which Spain actually makes their request for a penalty stroke. They believe that this is a push by the defender that brings the Spanish attacker to ground. He also happens to be in the active shooting, which might actually bring in the probable goal scenario.
Do we all think that this is a probable goal? If this is an accidental foul, could this be a probable goal? Is this around 75% chance if the foul doesn't occur, that the player's gonna score this when there is only one Australian defender in between the shooter and the net, and there is no goalkeeper,
maybe not 75% chance.
The problem with the camera angles that we have in this scenario is this is the angle we want and we want this to pan right now so that we can see the push by the defender that's coming up right here.
So great move by the attacker they plant, they're gonna curl the defender overruns. And right here look at the body position of the defender and whether they are making an effort to play the ball even at this moment. Or are they overextended? Are they just moving past? And as Charlie's pointing out on the, um, on the commentary here, that elbow,
if you see this, what is your decision in this particular moment? Is that a penalty corner or is that a reckless foul intended to break down the play? Or reckless as to whether it's going to break down the play. Okay,
let's see what your comments are. Ferrato, yes, it's a deliberate foul in the circle. Penalty stroke push in the back by the defender, but could only see that in slow MO with no goalkeeper. You might have appealed for the penalty corner.
Did you mean penalty stroke? Gideon, good to see you by the way, Conrad Deliberate. Push in the back is a penalty. Stroke. You as an attacking team, why not ask for the pc and then if you get a pc, fine. If you get a PC penalty stroke also fine. Don't you still lose your referral if you ask for a penalty stroke and get a pc?
No. So that was my first sort of thought as well. But the video referral regulations say that if they get a better result than what was originally called on the field, their referral is in essence upheld. So you can ask for a felony stroke. This is a, this is a play on situation. Regu doesn't call anything, or he, he calls the free hit for the heinous tackle there.
Okay? So the, the result that they had in their moment was play on. So the fact that that is overturned and they intent instead receive app penalty corner is enough that they keep their referral. So
Stijn. You hear what I say, but the video umpire should award, but chi deems right and not what the referring team asked.
Yeah. And the question is, is this the best decision, Shayne, where you've been? It's a penalty, stroke and a card for you? Yeah, could be a card. I don't know what's happened in the rest of the game. And it's intentional for Rachel. Played on from original foul. Then the defender, it deliberately pushes the attacker.
Um, 12.4(a), if not deliberately pushing, or B, if deliberate. So you, Blair, you would say that this is a probable goal scoring opportunity that's been taken away by the fall? You should say PC because you think there's a defender behind. That's not the criterion ad. I can, I will. Up here. There will be up in that direction.
In that direction, I will put up a link to another what up Wednesday, where I talk about whether the existence of the defender behind negates any probability of a goal being scored. Spoiler alert, it doesn't. What we're looking for is a probable goal. The existence of defenders in their positioning is only a factor to consider, but the fact that that defender is a field player is not a goalkeeper.
There's only one of them. There's quite a distance between them, between the ball and where the defender is. So if this Spanish player doesn't get taken down and is able to do a spinning flick on goal, is there a 75% ish chance that he's gonna score that goal? Maybe, but just because the defender's there, that does not negate any chance of a probable, let's get that right.
It's not accidental. Okay. You meant to PC with no goalkeeper. Present is possibly a better option than a penalty stroke With a card. Yeah. With a goalkeeper subbed on. Yep. Possibly. Possibly. It's, you know, I'd like to see some stats on that. I'd like to see how many times a penalty corner without a goalkeeper is successfully defended by that team.
I dunno. And Australia already have a player off with a yell card. Yeah, probably stroke astair delivering your opinion. Okay. What are the considerations for carding the player to make making a dentures dangerous attempt at an interception? Good question. Astair. So the things that the. I've been teasing out from all of the examples that we've been looking at over sort of the past year of attempted interceptions are that you're looking for, not necessarily.
I mean, obviously if a player comes running in and they're swinging their stick and it's highly actually like danger, dangerous, you've got another set of considerations there that this is just one of those, he's not doing it right and that makes it more dangerous, but it's not actually a, he's going crazy.
Kind of dangerous. Do you? Okay. My words are bad in that. I'm sure you can piece it together. What we're looking for when we're thinking about carding, those scenarios, I mean, that could have been a penalty corner, right? In and of itself, that aerial interception, if you believe that the player. The defender has everything in their sights.
They can see all of the things and that and that. That wasn't a reasonable attempt at an interception. They're just trying to stop the play because they can calculate, they can see that the initial defenders there. They can see where the landing point is, and there's just no way, like they're just coming to stop things from happening.
For me, this is not, I think it would be a tough call to say that, that he didn't try to intercept that ball outside of the dangerous area. He just didn't get there, just didn't quite get there, and they have to commit four or five, maybe even six seconds before the moment of the attempted interception, so they can get those numbers wrong.
The math may not math. And they can make that mistake. It's when a player clearly runs at the initial receiver and is just getting in their face and intentionally infringing the five meters. When there's an attempt to get in front of the ball, then I don't think I would penalize it as an intentional breakdown and then look at a penalty corner and a card, if that helps.
And then Alistair for me, like this isn't one of those reckless physical plays. Okay. Defender for you. Godders is not trying to play the ball against the attacker in possession. Conrad, with a push, the attacker is now falling off the ball denying a clean hit. So losing power with a Sean goal. Yeah, there's a clear disadvantage there, I think.
And so the question is, are we, are we looking that at that action of the defender's recklessness to. Result, which was to deny the attacker clean head. There's no goalkeeper, David, because they pulled that player off because they were trying to equalize. So they, they pulled the goalkeeper off and put a field player in his place.
Urine. The defendant doesn't put a stick down to stop the ball, but he does stop running to block the attacker. That's what makes it intentional. So apparently stroke not physical enough for a card for you? Yeah, I wouldn't, I. I think this is reg, you know, very physical.
Little coughers there. Little coughers. Okay, let's, uh, let's trigger the two minute warning
and see what we got.
Okay, so this is from the last one. Ignore it and I will bring on this beautiful set of stats. Thank you YouTube for all of your help.
Thank you YouTube for your help. And 70% of you were looking for a penalty stroke on this and a corner for 25%. And play on. You didn't see any foul whatsoever in that defender. Action.
Just adjust in those, adjust in those glasses. 70% of you got it right, , I mean, if you're gonna say it that way. Yes. Okay. Lots of things to work through. Lots of little steps, and there's ways in which you can anticipate in that moment when that aerial's going up and that ball is going left to right across you, which is a very difficult place to be gauging an aerial.
You should be thinking to yourself, this defender's gonna break it down. There's no goalkeeper. You know, they're gonna try everything they can to make sure what, what could happen if there's a breakdown here. And I was talking to Simon Milford about this in, in, uh, our conversations about advantage and how to calculate, you're anticipating what foul is gonna occur.
And if that foul occurs, where are the other players on the pitch? What, as he showed me what, um, possession, opportunity space. And what was the other s I can't remember. Skill is available to that player in order to do something with it. And so an advantage call here would've blown outta the water. So,
but really good, and I enjoyed that discussion. I think we got a lot of, uh, nice things. Out of that and lots of good learning points. Thank you very much for your participation. Okay. There were a couple announcements and I've skipped them because I went so long on the first, cuz don't I always. Okay. First thing I wanted to talk about before we get into topic three is that, uh, I just wanted to let y'all know that we are progressing really nicely towards our e l development group that is going ahead in less than 30 days.
Oh my god, I can't believe this is actually happening. The big news is that the E H C O, which is the European Hockey Club organization, is going to be putting on an under 19 club championship that is gonna run in parallel with the E H L and. You know, like, I don't wanna brag about how amazing we are, but maybe they thought, oh, we heard that FH Umpires is bringing a development group to the E H L.
I wonder if they might wanna umpire some of the games. So we've been approached to provide some umpires. I don't know exactly how it's gonna shake out. I don't know, um, how many games we can do when those games are going to be, all that sort of thing. But it's a wonderful opportunity for FH Empires as a community to represent.
It's a great opportunity for the people participating in the development group that, uh, I'm choosing to, to, to use in this capacity to put, to put on the pitch. And, and I think it's just really, really cool that something like that. Can happen. So, um, I will keep you advised of how that goes. Just to say that you never know what can happen when you take a chance and you put yourselves out there and you say, we're gonna do this amazing thing and we're gonna talk about it, and we're gonna let people know.
And I have a sneaking suspicion that these development tours are going to become quite a. Uh, quite a rich source of experience and fun for us in the future. We're gonna look at doing more and stay tuned. If you wanna know what this is all about, you don't understand what the fhu3t yellow membership is or anything like that, just go to fhu3t.com or fhumpires.com/fhu3t is probably the best way to do it, and you can find more about yellow, but if you want to talk with everybody in the community about all the exciting things that are happening, that all happens in our Discord server.
So please come along to the Discord server and check that out. And the other thing that I wanted to do was to send a big thank you to this fine gentleman. Um, I did it, I pointed the right way. You guys. Gary Ash bought me rosé a couple weeks ago to thank me for something, something great that I did. I don't know.
Doesn't matter now, does it? What matters that Gary's a great person and bought me rosé. Thank you very much, Gary. I appreciate your support. I appreciate everybody's support. Those of you who are green members of fhu3t, you are making it possible, with these just small, incremental monthly contributions,
you are making it possible for me to be able to keep giving free content to everybody in the world, and that means the world. So for everybody out there who can't afford mentorship, who can't afford the higher level of services and things like that, they still get a really great chance to learn because they're here and they can still keep coming to these live streams, and they can still come into the server and they can ask questions and get lots of support.
They can be part of the community and it's because of green members. So if yellow isn't the right choice for you right now, for whatever reason, maybe green is an option. So have a look at that and thank you very much for all that. There's the buy me a coffee link as well. Thank you everybody for popping the links in.
I also have PayPal and eth and fhumpires.Eth. Literally you could send me eth. How many of you have ETH Does looking at GoPro footage class as video referral? We're probably not, but you could always make jokes. That push in the back was a Keely special. Very difficult for either, um, part to see where they were.
Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, it was a tough angle for sure, and yeah, very exciting. Right. Just wait till we get to New Zealand for the Masters. Mm mm It's gonna be good. Okay, let's move on.
Topic three. Managing multiple cards. Australia, you just keep on giving. Let's have a look at this. No previous cards in the game.
Harvey does well to keep it in play himself. Esco has to be careful here. He's gonna go to the, this isn't a poll question. I just wanted to show how important it is to get your cards right when they come up. Stop the, just a few seconds later. Australia is continuing to press. It's be one 11 minutes.
Remain. And there's a card here. And before anything has even happened, tomo, he's done so Welsh, he stops the plate in the middle when no fouls even occurred. And he's like, no, you two gonzo.
And then just a minute after that, this happens,
holding his face. Um, we have a near fatal injury on the field
here. Once again, I wanna be a jerk, but come on.
It's a difficult position for this to happen because it's right in front of, it's on the sideline. Close there. It's all the coaches are around all the officials. It's crowded. You can hear all the mic. And now Tom's gonna bring the Spanish captain over
and watch how he manages
with and manages to get that resolved. Y I don't know if you can really pick out on the graphics just how many cards have popped up there, but there are basically four cards given within the span of two minutes, two of which are yellows. And so at the end of that, Little situation there. That was a yellow card to the Australian player for kicking the Spanish player in the face.
Okay. Yeah, technical tables are very useful in these situations.
So before we get further on that replay, I'll just show you what it looked like with the cards that 39, 40, 40 42. So within two, three minutes and you can see that no cards occurred. Prior to that, I haven't had a chance to look through the match because you know what my first inkling would be is how did we go through two full halves and a bit, two full halves, and another 10 minutes?
Of a match that was gonna be contentious because this is the second time that they've matched up in this little mini series in the pro league down in Australia without a card being awarded. And then we have that. So the question you should always ask yourself, if you are in this situation and you end up having to give out a spade of cards, two of which for fairly physical, quite physical incidences is what happened before this.
Were there incidents that I either failed to see my colleague and I did not see them, or we did not deal with them in what, in, in a way that would've prevented this from happening? And we talk a lot about game management tools and how you wanna have, um, a full tool set and things like that in physical dangerous games.
Your tool set does include talking to players. It does include talking to captains, but that is, those tools should not be used at the exclusion of cards. So at the conclusion of, you know, the last yellow card that David gives here, he has a conversation with the Spanish captain. I don't know what they said.
There seemed to be a little bit of maybe warning and a little bit of, hey going on here, and a connection and expression of empathy. But notice that that didn't happen in place of cards that happened in conjunction with cards. So too often we think, I'm gonna talk to the captains. That's gonna be a good management step.
It's not always enough. It's frequently not enough to do. We have to combine our management tools. And our other management tools include our calm, physical presence, our ability to smile, our ability to say the right words to the captain at this moment and be able to get to a resolved state at the end.
Okay. So all of those things were there. Okay. I know, right? ? Yeah. You New Zealanders. Come on, let's not get into that. Um, let's see. Steffan should, Tom will waited for the next stop will play to card. Those first two players, and I think you mean the second players that came together 30 seconds after the slide tackle.
Is it normal practice to stop play as he did? It's not normal practice. What message that sends right in that moment is, hey. I am really not happy with what occurred. What's interesting is that the play restarted with a 23 meter restart. Okay? So the incident happened inside the circle. We can kind of see the edge of it that they've been pushing and jostling, but if either there were simultaneous fouls or no foul occurred, and play was stopped, then how do we restart play, unfortunately, with a bully?
But if what Tomma wanted to do was to stop the nonsense right away because he sees that control is being lost, absolutely give it, for example, I had to give a red card during a game when I was in Brazil and I was able to play to let play move away from me and the incident and wait until the ball had gone off the sideline cuz I was right there.
I was on top of it and I could make sure there was no retaliation and I could see the ball was going out. So, you know, I was like mouthing the math and said, okay, we're good. Stop, boom, pull out the red. But ordinarily, in many cases you are not gonna play advantage on a red card because things have to be bang, they have to be locked down.
And clearly that's how Tommo reacted in that moment. And that probably was the best way. To deal with what would've kept bubbling and there would've been yells from both sides. He did this and he did that. And if Australia goes on to bring the ball back into the circle, win a penalty corner, then they're gonna be trying to refer what happened earlier and blah, blah blah.
It's just gonna be all this messy garbage that Tommo doesn't wanna deal with. And he wants to get the problem actors off the pitch before they can cause more problems for the game. I don't often like to see the match interrupted. I especially don't like to see bullies need to be warded. But I thought that was a very, it it, it appears without knowing what would've happened, but for this intervention, I think it looked like a really good choice in that moment.
Okay. I don't know. I don't know, but I always think about it. I always look back and this is. Again, this is for us. How are we gonna manage our games better? We need to apply those ana self-analysis skills. We need to ask the coaches and players. So what happened? Did we miss stuff in the second quarter that we should have?
Were you expecting to see cards for certain things and maybe you remember certain instances and you say, I made a choice not to card that. I wonder if that was the wrong choice of something that happens early in the game. So go through that exercise. You have to be aware and you have to practice that reflection so that when you're in your next game, you don't keep making the mistake of deferring the opportunity that comes to you to seize control of the game and to manage it properly with the interventions.
And I'm clapping again, which Australian player got the yellow to shoulder barge. Or the step back and foot to the face, the step back and foot to the face. It was number 14. Hi, Purdy. Unclear what the second lot of cards was for. Um, yeah, it, it's hard to see. It doesn't get captured in the direction, but you can sorta see the, the last bit of a push inside the circle.
Um, I think that they were wrestling and the Australian player probably got another good shove and then got out away and was able to get some separation with the ball. Let's just see if we can see it a little more clearly here.
Okay, so the ball's back in play. Okay. So, oh yeah, if you can see,
so what we're looking at is, oh, the frame rate in this is so bad. It's, it's those two players who have. I'm sorry, I'm struggling with my video controls here. They're not cooperating because the frame rate is so bad. Okay. So it is those two players there and I bet they've been hand bagging each other for a quite a several, few seconds there.
And as you can see, the,
there's a little bit of, you know, the Spanish player stumbles and there's no reason for him to stumble un unless there was a little bit of a push. But clearly they had been going back and forth enough that Tommo said
shoulder barge looks like a second yellow. Um, it could have been, it was definitely a breakdown like he. He is, he is interfering with that player's ability to get back to the ball. Intentional third party, whatever you wanna call it. The second yellow was Spain. No, um, there you go. Yep. It was the step back.
Okay, cool. Alright. So, and, and if anybody's wondering if that action by number 14 of Australia deserved that yellow card. He knew the guy was there. He's like, I'm gonna step backwards cuz I'm entitled to do so and I don't care if I kick him in the face. Yeah. Sorry, not on this pitch. You don't get to do that.
Okay. Alright. Last topic that I wanted to get through too. I'm doing better getting into the, the things better, into the things. What else did I wanna talk about? Ah, two more announcements before I get to the last one. First of all, I wanna give a shout out to Jules. Jules is the umpire coordinator at Carin Hockey Club Association.
I can't remember, apparently Jules watches quite frequently on replay. So Jules, I wanna say hi. I wanna say, come on to the Discord server. I would love to meet you. I'd love to know more about you, and I would love to talk to you. So Jules, shout out. Thank you for being a watcher, listener, lurker observer.
We're not supposed to call lurking cuz lurking seems a little creepy. So observer, thank you for being out there. And the last thing is, if you are a person who would like to help out FH umpires a little bit, you are in the UK and you have, I don't know, you got some storage space that you're like, boy wouldn't some.
Nice Tupperware bins of umpire shirts and whistles and cards look really good in this corner of my garage. Wouldn't that, wouldn't they just look really good there. If you are interested in helping out and being compensated for helping with fulfillment of e-commerce orders, I would like to talk to you.
I'm gonna be putting up a form in the server and we're gonna target a level where basically you're gonna be taking the margin of the retail goods, , whatever margin exists, you're gonna get it. Um, and I will obviously pay for the shipping materials and things like that, but 80% of FH Empire's orders come from within the uk.
My current warehousing solution is no longer going to, no longer gonna be viable starting in August because Printful has decided that they're gonna charge $150 US per month for warehousing. When I have been previously paying $30, you ask a month, guess who can't afford that? This girl. So if that is something that sounds cool, if you've been looking for a way that you've wanted to be able to contribute and you will, uh, get some compensation for your time and a whole lot of appreciation and come into the server, and I will be posting that within the next, let's say six hours.
Denman, are you gonna stick me to six hours? Yeah, you will. Okay. Oh, oh, oh. Shayne, Shayne. This is shameful, isn't it? I don't usually, um, do this part, but I am gonna ask if there's so many people watching. I'd love. Just let me know. The most important thing to me is that you engage in the comments because I like to hear what you're thinking, how you're thinking, because it helps me be a better teacher.
It helps me think of things that I didn't know before. It helps me provide better for this community. So every comment you make, that's why I make sure I go through every one of them because I know it's a learning opportunity for me and it's a learning opportunity for all of us together. So get in the comments, but while you're there you could just, you could just, just hit that, oh, it didn't work.
What there smack that like button smack it. Yeah. I do think you're gonna be awake in six hours cuz you've been doing that on the regular for the last few. Okay, last topic. Proactive communication versus coaching. Let's do it. Oh, now the likes are pulling it. Apparently if you ask, you shall receive. Thanks everybody.
So we had a conversation pop up in the server and, and it sort of went through a few different sort of examples and topics, but the instigator of this conversation was about when the ball has not left the circle on the injection of the penalty corner and what we're supposed to do about it. Now y'all know that this is one of my least favorite rules in the rule book, is that it is not a foul to continue play or even to shoot a goal if the ball is not left the circle.
It simply can't be a goal as Hamish so eloquently states in his post here. And then the question that William uh, asks here is, do you not say not out, or something along those lines. And then we had a conversation about what it means when you make those statements and you, you use that style of communication.
The question being, are you potentially advantaging one team over another because you are indicating what you've seen even though no fouls occurred. And I think it's worth us having a conversation about that because I believe that it's our responsibility and it's the best way to umpire game is to be proactive and tell the players what you've seen.
And remember, you're not walking up to one set of players and whispering. They're going, Hey, That ball didn't go out, you might wanna deal with that. Okay. That is both giving only one team the information and then telling them what to do about it. So for me, that is not, that crosses the line that gets to the coaching area, which is explicitly against the rules under Rule 10 something.
Do I have to go back and find it?
Oh, uh, is it 10? I can't remember
Honda to play umpires. No. . Hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. Um, umpires are not supposed to coach. I thought I was under. Oh yeah, there it is. It's underneath. Sorry, it's underneath my little thing. 11 seven. Um, pars must not coach during the match. So understanding that, knowing that we can't coach during the, that we can't coach during the match, but telling players if the ball hasn't moved five yet, by simply saying not five, not five.
Telling the players that they haven't moved back five meters from the spot of the free hit. That's not five. One more step, one more step. I mean, you could argue that that is quite instructive when you say one more step rather than telling them just that they simply haven't complied with the five meter rule yet.
But we do these things because we're not here to capture or catch players doing things wrong. We're here to. Show them how to play a better game that requires less of our interventions. So remember that the number of times that it would happen in a game that a ball wouldn't leave the circle on a penalty corner is probably, maybe once if it's happening on the regular.
Well, you've got a different set of problems included in your 99 and and we can talk about that too.
And all you're doing is informing both teams. That the ball has not left the circle. I, as a player, love that. I love knowing what the umpire is looking at because whether they're right or wrong, sometimes I might think that they're wrong. I know what I, what choices I can then make. So if I were defending that penalty corner and the umpire says not out yet, you know what I would do if I was had my druthers about me?
As I'd start defending the outlet lines, I'd start pressing the opposite way. How confusing would that be for the attackers? Cuz all they really wanna do is to get the ball out or earn another penalty corner, but they're trying to move it out. If they shoot towards the goal. Yay. Go nuts. At the worst, the ball deflects off my goalkeeper and goes in the goal, and then a 23 meter restart is awarded.
Actually, that's not the worst. The worst is that we give up a another PE corner.
But terrific. If my goalkeeper is smart and clever and just steps aside because they've heard that the umpire declare that the ball is not out yet. Awesome. That is not an advantage to the attacking team. That is information that both teams can take and do something with to make a better flowing, more constructive game.
And that gets back to what my overall modus operandi is on the pitch, which is I'm there to make a great game, the best game that those players can play on that day. And everything I can do in service to that purpose, I'm doing the right thing. Um, let's see what you're saying in the comments. Thank you Conrad
This is what happens when I don't prepare certain things. There you go. Oh, you know, y'all looking at the numbers. I'm trying not to think about it because I've been gaining 15 subscribers a week for three and a half years. I just, it just doesn't, it's okay. Um, and I think I told my mentor group or my mastermind group, I said, yeah, I'm gonna hit 2000 subscribers, you know, the, the third week of March.
And they're like, really? You know that? I'm like, yep. Because it's math. Anyway, Nick, you're proactive ball out. I'm talking to my colleague, myself and local players. If the ball ball's an out I'll have said ball not out. My colleague knows I know. And look boys out. Okay. Yeah, and it's good because it helps you grease your mind to make the next decision because you've literally led yourself down the path of.
This thing's gonna happen. Just like if you say you're playing advantage and you say, I'm coming back to that because you're gonna come back and you're gonna award a personal penalty. But the team penalty was at a bad time and it was a much better option for the foul team to continue play. When you say that you are committed and you will not forget.
And even if you have to wait 35, 45 a minute worth of seconds, 60 seconds in order to come back to that card, you've committed it out loud to yourself and to everybody who's heard you and it's the right thing to do cuz you don't wanna back out of that decision cuz it was the right decision to make the best decision you could make in that moment.
We're not talking about Amsterdam coffee shops. You, you've never told players the ball didn't leave the circle. You think it mainly has to do with it. Most of the time you don't have time to communicate it, and you're focused on what's happening, but you're not against it and that's you. That's totally fine.
Sometimes things are happening too quickly, but part of our superpowers are developing the ability to go through a checklist of the things that could happen before they happen so that we're prepared for what we might need to do. So, for example, when the players have to shift off their lines in order to receive the ball at the top of the circle on the injection, that's a really good time for you to think that that ball may not have gone outside the circle because of how the angles change.
As soon as the, the players shift several centimeters that way. Or several centimeters the other way. I can't remember exactly how it works. I have to see it. But you see how that's a, that's a, a way that you can start preparing and then when you're prepared for it, if you're not reacting to what's happening on the pitch, you can get your vocal instructions in.
It's when you're like, oh, I think the ball may not have gone outside the circle. Gee, what happened? Oh, was that a foot? Oh, and you're, you're just, you're catching up. You're catching up. The game has moved past you. You need to be ahead of the game all the time. Uh, Shayne, you verbalize what you're seeing as a way of checking off the things that need to occur to be valid.
Play. Excellent. Yes. I have heard players, or I've heard umpires, and I have done this myself at times, where I've said, yep, that's, you know, I've said, okay, injection good, or Nobody's early balls outside. Boom, boom, boom. You go through the stuff. And just like Shayne said, you're checking off, yes, this corner is proceeding the way it should, uh, Gideon in this example, it's beneficial to both teams.
So communicate the one you like less is saying the full-time whistle will go during a pc. Is it only benefits the attackers who bring their whole team up?
I guess the, the, the thing that you have to consider in that situation. I did take a long pause to think about it because it's a good point. But the, the real issue is that you want both teams to understand that they have to keep playing if the corner has not been completed. So if the horn goes, you have to blow time because technically you should be blowing time during the corner if it's not complete, if time has expired.
Okay. I know we handle it a little differently in practice. I get that. But the point is that you're encouraging the players to keep going, both teams. And it's a safety issue that both teams continue to play. So that to me, overrides the, oh, they can bring up a bunch of players and, and that sort of thing.
Okay. Cat, you prefer to make sure there's no surprises. Yep. You don't want the players to be surprised by your decision, so you do tell them. Agree. Alistair, it's a very, very academic question. Can a shot be considered to be a shot on goal if no shot co. If a goal can be scored du due, if the goal can't be scored due to the ball not leaving the circle.
And the answer is yes, because it's the intention of the attacker playing the ball towards the goal. Intending to score. It is a very academic question that I hate too. Thanks for noticing staying. This is during play. The attacking team gains more advantage than defenders. That looks different to you than shouting advantage during play before or correcting before play resumes.
I disagree. I disagree. If that's, if, if, if you're talking about the, the ball not leaving the circle. No, it's, it's, it's, it's the same amount of information and if one team chooses not to think critically about what they should be doing as a result of that information, then that's not good enough. Yeah. Uh, Simon, you called a PC over a six aside final.
When the ball had gone three meters from the D attack came in top corner, shot to win the final losing. Coach wasn't happy,
so called a PC over, so you ended the penalty corner. Yeah. I don't know what your sixth aside rules might have been. So all I know is that you're sharing a moment that wasn't fun, and I'm not passing any things. Ben, ditto to what you've said. You don't often have the time to make the shout. You'll know if it has or hasn't, but the time to react and call often means the ball is gone
and ball has gone. I don't know if that, if you mean that's been a shot or not, but there you go. But hopefully what I said earlier kind of helps you address that. And the question is if, I mean, if it's, if it's the stop and it hasn't happened outside and, and the drag flick has gone, the, the, the, the straight hit has gone.
The hit to the layoff deflection in has gone, sure, you're right. You don't have enough time. But often there's. You know a little bit because something has, there has been some sort of mishap that's caused that ball not to come outside the circle and just communicating to everybody that you've seen it, that it's not out and then they make their choices.
That's the key. So I'll just end the poll so I can see what everybody has said here, cuz I'm curious, only 53% of you are saying yes, that you would communicate to that to the players. I would invite the other percentage of you to reevaluate that. I would strongly, when it's possible, do it and try it.
Being a proactive, trusted umpire and players believing in what you're able to tell them that you're there to help them play a great game. Goes miles, miles on the pitch. The players know the difference, they can tell, and you want to be that kind of umpire who's there to help. Thanks very much for joining in today.
Few minutes over. I did. All right. Uh, don't forget, make sure that you get into the, um, sorry, I'm just looking down at my screen and realizing that everything's wrong. Make sure you get into the Discord server. We're having great conversations. I'm really enjoying everything. We have a, we have a A F H U Fit section thread that's going on, like gangbusters should be in its own channel, but it's too late now.
I can't make it its own channel. It's just a thread that's gonna live forever. Off. Topic is always hot, but the q and a is always doing well. If you want to bring forward scenarios, and that's where I try to draw my material for F h U from. So please do head in there and say, I saw this thing. This thing happened to me.
If you have video, I'd love to see it and we will keep working things out together and talking for a Keely hour every Wednesday on these streams. So thank you very much for coming along, and we'll see you next week. Bye.
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