Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 108

📅 Feb 1 19.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

We're wrapping up the final days of an amazing tournament today with clips on sliding players, goalkeepers moving their feet defending penalty strokes, a thrown facemask, and deliberately playing the ball with the body. We'll also talk about what we learned from the tournament on the whole and what are going to be the hot button topics for the umpiring community going forward.

See you there live, or bring your comments and questions to the replay!

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⏱ Chapter Markers:
0:00 Chair Dancing
07:35 1. Sliding Players
57:37 2. Deliberately Playing Ball With The Body
01:14:14 3. Goalkeeper Moving Feet Early On Penalty Stroke
01:29:07 4. Throwing the Facemask

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

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Transcript

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What Up Wednesday. Hello everybody. Keely Dunn, FH FHumpires. Glad to see you all. And when I say see you all, meaning I'm seeing you through a piece of glass in my imagination, I am very glad to be here. We have wrapped at the World Cup and that is gonna be the main focus of what we talk about, or actually our main obsession really.

Of what we talk about today. So I'm looking forward to all of that. And yes, my timer was not in place because I don't know if you remember last week my scene blew up and that's why I was a little bit late getting on. I was like, oh, wait a minute. Remember that time that the scene blew up and I had to pull the overlays back on, but I forgot to recreate the timer.

So anyway, whatever, we're here and that's the most important thing, saying hi to everybody already in the chat. It was really good to see you. We do have a new friend in the house. Stephen Hunter, good to have you on for the first time. Hi, yeah, DJ air horn. I bring the class and the style. That's, that's the way I roll.

And let's see, Marcos haven't seen you for a hot minute. I hope you're well. And Raju is here. Raju is here. And Paul, whoa. Another first timer. Hi.

I love this. I love it when people are willing to come up and say, yeah, it's my first time live, and then I get to blow obnoxious sounds, blow obnoxious sounds, sound them, whatever. There you go. , is it clear what up in the house? Yeah. There you go. Good to see you Nick. And Peter is here. That is awesome. You just, are you just guessing now?

Are you just, just trying to throw out every possible premutation of the consonants and hope that the vowels sort of sort themselves out. That's fine. I'm, I'm here. I'm here for that. Uh, . Here we go. This is what we're talking about today. Dangerous shots on goal. Hopefully this is all coming through. Okay.

My computer's doing weird stuff. Um, player management. No, this is last week's. This is last week's and everything blew up, so hang on. Nope, I don't accept this. I don't accept this. I will not, I will not accept this. , everything is a little bit off kilter today. See what I mean? This is, this is where we're supposed to be, so, okay.

I'm, nope. No. I, I refuse. No, I given. Okay. We're gonna talk about . I'm gonna look at my notes. Um, we're gonna talk about deliberately playing the ball with the body after we talk about sliding players, cuz Sebastian was really upset that we didn't get to sliding players last week. So we're gonna do a bunch of stuff on sliding players, deliberately playing with the body, moving your feet on the penalty, stroke goalkeepers.

We're gonna talk about face mask. And then I'm gonna wrap up with some overall trends that I spied over watching. I will admit there were three matches I did not watch on the final day. I didn't, I just didn't watch them. So I'm owning it. 41 of 44 possible matches, and I will watch the other ones at some point.

I just had to get that guy's voice outta my head. It was very, very annoying. But there you go. Oh, Gary, you're back. It's good to have you. It's been a while. There you go. And yes, do the thing that the, the, the weird lady says down here. Join us on our discord server, FH FHumpires dot com slash ds. That's where we hang out and build our community and talk about umpire in a constructive and fun way.

And sometimes there are many gifts involved, just sometimes . Mike, you are driving. Okay, Mike, stop. You are driving. Just put the phone down. Okay. We, I promised, I promised you in the pre-show that we were gonna talk about you while we were here, so we will. . Just don't, just like a desperate Ozzy referral. Oh my goodness.

There you go. Everything's broken. Yep. Blame Hamish. Continue. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, Hamish, I know you're pretending you're not here, but I am blaming everything on you, and your ears are probably burning, and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I'm, I must be missing Keeley giving me grief. Hi Jared. Good to see you.

It's been a while to see you as well. Thanks for being there. You'll stick to Hi . Yeah. Keep it simple, right? Keep it simple. Alright, let's get down to business. Hopefully this'll work. Sliding players. This is what we're going with. There are sound effects that aren't sounding. Oh man. Good strength down the right hand.

So this was the first play that I pulled out and I wanted to do so because we do talk about. Players sliding sometimes in a very black and white context. And I have spoken on many occasions about how we need to be very, very clear that we are meeting all of their criterion that need to exist in order for the automatic 10 minute yellow card to apply.

So the poll question here is, what would you do in this situation? Do you believe there is a foul here? Would you call a free hit defense? Would you, or sorry, free hit attack, would you give a free hit and a card? Would you allow this to play on or with advantage and, and not do anything about it? Or would you play on the advantage and then have a have a bit of a, have a bit of a word.

Throw some side eye. Give a little what for to this, to the player who has. Made this sliding slash diving tackle. So I'd love to hear from you and, and then I'll tell you what the right answer is. I'm just kidding. Actually, I'm not really kidding. Should you ban Mike? I don't know. Like, it's probably for the greater good in so many ways, but there you go, taco.

It has been forever. I'm glad you're here. Thank you. This is great. It's like a reunion show. It's like y'all are okay if she's gonna wrap up the, the World Cup now I'm gonna come, I'm gonna make my grand return. I'm gonna announce, I'm gonna get showered with affection and love, and then I'm never gonna leave.

That's what I'm hoping you're all gonna say. Undisclosed amount of time. Yellow card. Uh, minimum five hours. . There we go. Hi Graham. Glad you're here. Okay. So if the poll is up, that means that I don't have my Chrome window open, obviously. So I need to switch to this and really Google right now Google wants me to ver verify my existence.

Um, it's very much me, you jerks. And if you don't know, oh,

I'm literally live streaming on your platform. You jerk faces.

Okay, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go ahead and do this because unlike an Ozzy referral, I can't, oh no, I have to sign as this person, I've got like four Google accounts and now I have to open my phone to help keep your account safe. Keely, is this really you? Is this really you? Yeah, it's really me.

I have to wait for Verifi. Uh, yes, it really is me, I have to say for the 14th time, and then I have to give them their two digit number, and now they're gonna let me into my own damn live stream.

not today, Satan. Not today. That's what I'm gonna say. Oh, and I just realized I do like a bit of, of empty space in a stream. I, I think there's some dramatic tension that gets built there, but I do like the little soft music in the background just to, just so people know that I haven't muted my microphone, because as we know, I want to do that.

So now y'all have voted. I'll go through it really quickly. What I see here is that on this play, this one was really interesting to me because I remember back, um, and I've told this story several times, and I think it was the World Cup. In 2018 and Manpreet went for a dive and, and was sliding towards the ball in the same direction, almost the same direction as I believe it was Lucas via of Argentina.

Ben Gunk was umpiring and I'll, I'll say say hi, uh, about Ben later and Manpreet sliding and via is dribbling and Via can see that Manpreet is coming and he ends up getting taken down just outside the 23 and Ben Kar, 10 minutes, off you go. And a couple of top players were on Twitter saying, Dude can get around that.

And I, I, I found that to be an, like an, uh, an interesting way of approaching it. That there's an onus on the ball carrier to have to hurdle a player who is deciding to go to ground, who won't be in control of their body, who is taking a high risk of doing so. And now suddenly the ball carrier who kind of has other stuff to do in their lives, you know, they're trying to figure out where to pass, where to dribble, who they're gonna be setting up for the shot, you know, how, how they're gonna shape the space, communication, blah, blah, blah.

And, you know, maybe not like kick the ball away off their own stick. Okay, that's just me. But, and I thought, do we really put that onus on the attacker to keep themselves safe? And I don't believe we do. If that Malaysian player had been brought down by this challenge, then I would've fully expected it to be a 10 minute yell card, and I wouldn't expect the Malaysian to do this amazing thing where he hurdles over like Superman and just keeps, keeps himself on the on the road.

That being said, you can't penalize what hasn't happened. And remember, we need a ball carrier to be, you need to make contact with that ball carrier, which kind of doesn't happen. That brings that ball carrier to ground.

I'm missing a step

ball carrier. It's gotta be. Yeah, an intentional going to ground. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Brain fart. Um, and that, that contact brings the player to ground. We don't really have contact and we don't have the player going to ground, so we can't, we can't penalize, or even, I think in this case, I don't even think we can stop plate to give that free hit defense so that, um, and, and, and even admonish the player at that point.

The only thing we can do, I think, is to go back after the fact with a little bit of a dang, you lucky sort of admonishment and, you know, please don't pull that necessarily again. So that's, that's kind of where I see that, that play going. So I'm gonna end the poll. This is gonna be, oh,

There's a red button above the pole that says End stream.

I think they should change the location of that button. Okay, so what do we have here? Wait, wait. I'm, oh my gosh, I'm trying to do things differently today. Two minute warning.

So what we had was, where's my thing? Okay. 70% of you, 74% of you wanted play on plus a warning. Okay. And then 19% we're just happy just to play that on. Okay. P.

Maybe I should have kept things more simple today. And somebody did want a free hat, a free hit attack, and a card, a 6% of you. And I guess in that case, I would, I would ask you to look at, in that particular scenario, what disadvantage that player suffered in that moment and what would've been the better result for the team if you would stop that play that that Malaysian player was often running.

So you don't, you, you, you have to be reading and expecting, okay, how can this player make use of the space in front of them? What passing options do they have, et cetera, et cetera. What is the best option for them in this moment? And if you feel strongly that you're gonna come back to a card for whatever reason, remember you can play on an advantage.

Arm up yelling. Advantage. You can even say things, uh, you know, like I'm coming back to you. That sort of thing. And that can be the best combination of all worlds. There you go. What do y'all say? Uh, 40 seconds to go full attack on. Absolutely. Okay. So Peter, that's even a nicer way to pull in some more facts there to make sure that you're getting the best result for the team that had been failed.

You don't see an intent to slide attack on this one. It's the player in full control of their decision. The player is in full control of their decision to dive and to go to ground in that moment. Okay? And that's what we're talking about there, is that they They know. They know. And it's not like they tripped and fell.

They just went out. And even though. We can call it a sliding tackle or a diving tackle. Does it matter if it's head first or feet first? I mean, it does because if you're the slider, you're a lot safer if you go feet first. But that's about it. Um, difference makes a dive like what happens here or trip over their own feet.

But you need the replay. Yeah. No, he didn't trip over his own feet. He went full out trying to intercept that ball. There's no intent to slide into the tackle, but an awkward position to end up. And they do cause a disadvantage. Am I on drugs?

Okay. Okay. I I, I see what you all are saying here. And they're picking their chances. Down the right hand side. Okay.

I still see a little bit. I, I keep, I keep watching it now. I'm, I'm wavering. But the good news is it doesn't change what the call would be. . The good news is, hi Abano. Good to see you. And then Jamal, without coaching the player that was bad, unsuccessful. Have a quick seat to think about what you've done. I mean, I, yeah, I just, I see that they've, they've risked reaching to stretch out and, and going, uh, I don't think the player just slipped.

So there you go. It looks like a trip play advantage, but no warning for Rachel. Okay. You did think he did intentionally go to ground, but it had a little impact on the play. Yes. , that was, that was the way I saw it before. Y'all threw doubts into my mind. And the attacker's not brought to ground. Absolutely.

And that's, that's sort of one of the main things I want you to focus on. Sometimes I have seen umpires get a little bit card happy when they see a player going to ground because they're like, oh, player went to ground. I'm gonna card this because I know I'm supposed to. But you need the other elements.

You need the contact being made. You need that player being brought down in order to mandatory to be required to be giving a 10 minute yellow card. In that situation, you could, you could give a 10 minute yellow card when all those factors don't exist. But it's not mandatory. And if you can't apply those factors and shape them properly to that situation, then you're in a little bit of trouble.

Um, let's see. Traffic lights, it sounds like carnage. There you go.

What sells you is not intentional as the stick ends up under him.

Yes. And Mike about it while driving. Okay. Uh, yeah. Okay. And that's fair. And I think what's important is you guys are looking for you, you're looking for things that give you more information as to whether this player is in control of their actions. And, you know, uh, Mike McDowell and I have gone through a little bit of a discussion on a play that we saw where a player did something kind of similar to that in the circle and did bring the player down.

And we talked about, you know, what, what we saw as being the full extent of that recklessness and what things needed to be applied. So Mike, I'm interested. Uh, particularly in light of that scenario, what, you know, how, how that applies or how that's shaped by what you've got here. So now that I've really gotten off to a strong start, let's go to this next one off Ghost Brickman.

I'm way more sure about this,

so I'd like to know, in this case, yellow card has been shown, pushed. What do you see here? Because there seems to be a lot of, um, it's for, and it's Australia's ball, and that changes the complexion because it, you know, the, the Dutch players certainly don't seem to understand why or what has happened here.

So do you see a free hit, defense free hit in a green card? I can't remember what the poll options were that I gave you, but that's okay. That's why Kat is on board. On deck and ready to sort me out.

And what did I say? Free defense. Free defense, and a green card, a five minute yellow card or a 10 minute yellow card. Those are the options. Okay, so when we look at this situation here, what we have is a player sliding, an attacker sliding to try to deflect the ball into the goal and a defender chasing them or marking them at full pace.

So I'd love to see what you have on this. There's definitely contact. The player is definitely brought to ground.

Purdy, you're never late as long as you're here. He struggled when this one was live as the Dutch player was down as need first, and the Australian runs into him.

It's reckless and clumsy. Low impact for Steven, but q4, the game so likely have been something before yellow. Seems fair.

Okay. I actually, I don't know what the card history in that game was, but I'd like you to take that out of that context. Like we don't have to couch in the context because this is something that if you consider it to be either high impact, Or you consider it to be physical, reckless and danger dangerous.

If you consider it to fulfill all of the criterion of a 10 minute yellow card in terms of a sly tackle, then it doesn't matter what's happened in the rest of the game. You're giving the 10 minute yellow card.

Um, does it help that the ball is already outta play before the slide? Well, it's outta play before the impact.

He's already sliding before the save is made.

I wanna have a have another look at this. Now y'all say interesting stuff that I don't pick up on and this is why we talk about it,

okay? For Raju, it's a 10 minute yellow cuz the player is being brought to ground. The ball had already left the pitch. So you would've thought a 23 meter restart instead of a free hit, but then gone to personal penalty for the impact going to take him to ground.

Andrew is the sliding player ahead of the player he takes down. Is the trip inevitable or does the Australian player run into the sliding player? So this is one of the points that I wanna tease out, not because I'm saying I, I think in this, in this case, it's really difficult when we see it in slow motion.

It makes it look much more like the Australian defender is running towards the Dutch player. Okay? But if we try to watch a little bit more carefully of how closely the Australian defender is marking, and I'll try to. In that moment, when you watch it in real speed, that happens very quickly. The Aussie player's very close to him, and the Dutch player makes that decision to go to ground.

It would be really difficult at full pace for any defender to avoid this contact. But it's worth looking at because that's why I keep stressing that. I don't like this interpretation of the briefing, and I don't think it's constructive where we apply it to any slide. There's a distinction in the rules between what is a tackle and what is not.

A tackle is defined as a player having possession of the ball and an member of the opposing team trying to dis dispossess that possession. And there's a reason for that definition because it creates a bunch of other, it creates a hockey reality of. If I have the ball and I'm looking down, trying to look around, thinking of passing, thinking of playing, thinking of shooting,

it's much more difficult for me to understand where a defender is and to keep track of them. Whereas if you don't have the ball and the ball is flying in from the other side and being saved by your goalkeeper and going off the end line, you have more control over. You have, you have more perception.

You're able to take into account another player. Who might be going to ground. And if you run into that player knowing full well and being able to perceive that and having the control of your own body, can you really say that the defender has caused that danger

now in this situation for me? Well, I'll, I'll, I'll wait. I'll, I'll go through a few more comments and then I'll end the poll and then I'll try to tell you what I think. Um, but it's something that we need to be aware of, I think because there is a risk that we get into a sports ball like situation where players are just running in for the sake of earning cards and earning fouls, and then they get up and they're, they're going like this, shaking their, their card hand and ain't nobody to got time for that.

We don't have time to become sports ball. We don't want it. Taco thought the Dutch player was ahead, but now it seems more like he's next to the defender. It might be a clumsy slide that makes the defender trip but cannot do anything to avoid. It's not a clumsy slide. It's an intentional I'm going to ground because I'm gonna try to slide and deflect this ball.

Correct that right now cuz that is not the way we're applying this. He goes down in an extended I'm and whether he, he has to do so considering the safety of the players around him. Now, if that defender is further away from him and he's like, I'm pretty sure I can go down on the slide and things are gonna be cool, this guy isn't gonna run into me.

That's different. Okay. But it's not a clumsy slide. It's a graceful execution of a ballet like maneuver. That is potentially dangerous and we ascribe that part of the responsibility onto that player who is sliding. Okay. Hope that's clear. So if they're full pace and the Dutch player just stops and the Australian smashes into him from behind, that's on the Australian player.

Oh, you are devil's advocating this one McDowell. So why is it the Netta one's player's fault for the contact going to ground whilst moving away from a player into space?

I think the distinction and I I, I mean I, I wanna give this good thought because it is a good point. It is rather Dumble Door's army about it, but it is a good point.

Again, it's about what we expect players to do. And if a player is, let's say, Let's, let's just switch this off for a sec so I can, I can focus players carrying the ball down the field and they're, they're just dribbling in a straight line and they have a chasing defender. It is reasonable, it is expected, it is part of the game that that player may suddenly change their direction to go off this way, because there's somebody else who's coming up, another defender is coming in front of him, and he wants to avoid that player.

He's getting ready to do a maneuver. He's trying to change his passing lanes. He's trying to, for example, what if he stops because he's holding up because he wants to give his teammate a chance to get into the far corner so he can aerial the ball into that corner. But he has to pause for a second. Is he, is that an expected hockey player, an expected maneuver?

Absolutely.

Is a player who goes in for a slide and is carrying off, do we put that in the same category as things that are controlled, expected, et cetera? No, we don't. We don't because they don't have control over the situation. They're not the ball carrier. They're not, and, and, and they're, they're the ones, they're the ones taking that positive action and taking that intentional,

yeah. That, that intentional maneuver and then they don't have control anymore.

I'm gonna keep working on this. Thought that was a work in progress. I'd give it maybe a four outta 10. I'm not super happy with it. The defensive work off Brickman, the slide had no effect. As the ball left field to play, then it is a player, uh, doing a dangerous action. Allister, you wouldn't expect the player to go to ground at that point.

Contacting itself was dangerous and probably not relevant for this would've been a massive breakdown of play if a ball had not gone out. Well, it's not a breakdown in play, Alistair, because Australia didn't have possession of the ball. They're not the attackers here. Uh, so the Dutch player is just, they're not breaking down play.

He's just doing something dangerous. Do you see the difference? We have to be, we have to use that phrase very precisely because it matters as to how we card actual breakdown. In situations where it's there, I don't want that to, to slip out of our control there. If the def, if the defender brings an attacker to ground off the ball in the 23, is PC the correct option?

Uh, absolutely. Yeah. Graham, what would I do if a sliding player gets the touch, puts the ball in the goal, and then the same contact happens? Well, we've, we've gone through sliding attacker scenarios just like that. So there have been some in Pro League and in World Cups and things like that in, in previous shows, and often the decision turns on just how much contact was made, whether the defender was actually brought to ground, and how much, yeah, how much real danger was in that situation.

But goals have been ruled out because of that. So yeah, what would I do? If I felt that the, it was a, if it was a dangerous slide, it brought somebody to ground and a goal was scored, then you blow a free hit and you give a 10 million card.

If I don't feel it was exceptionally dangerous because I feel like the defender, you know, had had a chance, or it wasn't high, high velocity, then maybe I could go with a five. But of course you would rule out the goal.

It's Peter, it's reckless as to safety. The other player, it takes an opponent to ground with a potential cause injury. You're taking them all. But the the one thing it we don't have. We what? That we don't have the criterion. Am I gonna have to get my, all my chalk talk here? Am I gonna have to number them all for you?

What we don't have as a player in possession of the ball? And I think that's a crucial distinction cuz this is not a slide tackle. This is a sliding attacker. Very different. Very different. Should this still be a 10 minute yellow card because of the velocity, the danger and all that kind of stuff? Yes. Is this an automatic 10 minute yellow card because it ticks all the boxes?

No, it doesn't tick all the boxes. It tick two of the three boxes because it's not a tackle, in my view, and under the definition of the rules of hockey, and I think that that is a distinction worth making. Hmm, I, okay. I see what you're saying, taco, but I'm, I'm still, as a defender, you would expect attacker, potentially a slide for deflection if they were moving towards the goal.

Hmm. Okay. I'll accept it and I'll think about it. Attacker moving into space should expect the defender to follow, especially in front of goal. Has the duty to be safe going off his feet? Yeah. Yeah. When he is marking that tight. If you can't see the defender, if you think you're free, free and clear, it gets a little, a little harder.

Right. Steven, you can expect an attacker to slide in this situation. You think the attacker's ahead of the defender goes straight, goes in a straight line. The defender comes across to get in front when the player's on the ground. 23 meter restart. Steven. Um, yeah, I, I, I don't agree with this perception of this, but absolutely.

We'll see you soon. Okay. Let's end this poll. No, not to end the stream. No. Keeley press the correct button. Two minute warning.

There's supposed to be a box in this scene and it doesn't.

What do we got? So for the, for the yellow card, we had 46% there for the 10. Okay. And then a yellow card five minute was 34% of you. So, um, yeah, that's a, that's a big, a big majority. And I think that's probably, I think that is the best decision. And I mean, at the mo at the time, I mean, my first thing is when, oh, there,

when I first saw it, I'm always a little bit, oh, it's a sliding attacker. You know, do we have, and then when I see the impact, I see the velocity. I see how close the Australian defender is. I don't think he's running it. There's no way he can't not be brought down by that sliding. I believe so. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

10 minute elk. That's fine. Okay. So that's basically my thought processor. Let's just say, um, purdy, if the player had slid in a straight line with a stick clearly towards the ball, you think Steven's point would be fair, but you can see him try to stop mids, slide feet forward and run and turn towards the defender.

Yeah. Which, you know, makes it more dangerous. Okay. That's that's fair. Pretty. I see that. Okay. You think about the hypothetical situation, the ball would remain in play, but then Netherlands would still have possession. But Netherlands can't break down their own play. They can commit dangerous actions, but they can't commit a foul against the opposition with the purpose, the, the recklessness as to whether that's going to stop the other team from doing something awesome with the ball they have.

Okay. That is not breakdown play. Alastair, let me put it to you another way. Another mistake on pars would make, back in the day when we had sticks going above the shoulder and that was illegal to contact the ball, you could not play the ball above your shoulder with your stick, and a ball would be in play in the circle.

It would rebound high off the goalkeeper and an attacker would put their stick high and they would bat it in and there's nobody around them and an umpire would card. That's incorrect. There is no breakdown of the play there. They've broken down their own play. They haven't broken down the opposition.

They've given away. They've given up a free hit instead of being able to possibly score a goal if they had just let the ball fall to their shoulder height. Okay, do you see the difference? And that is very important.

I'm just making faces now cuz hopefully that convinces people, apparently people are decide on emotions and not rationality. So there's my emotion. I don't know what emotion that was. Uh, McDowell. You can see it both ways. And Dan was in the best position to see the lines and the timing. Yes. And that's like the last sort of wrap up point.

And I think that's a really good thing to, to point out. So thank you for that. Peter. You agree it's not attack, but it's still albeit not mandatory. Yep. Good. You're saying exactly what I, I have been saying. So that means you're right Peter. Luke for the game of the impact, a 10 minute yell is probably more appropriate.

But you voted a five minute because you were uncertain. Yeah. And that's okay. And it's, and because it's not a mandatory and that, yeah. And at the time of course, I mean not that the commentators ever know the difference, but they didn't think it was a, they thought it was a five minute, and that's completely clear.

Yes, we have success. Okay.

It's taking a little longer than I thought. Here's the last slide. Oh, I just noticed that left layoff sneaking in a bit earlier. There's a Dutch player down in front of him. He's stuck in, let's go in. Think he was with a hit. Let's wait for my burrow. It's a lot of Dan today. Two things. Me. So one where you just take the side of the attacker into the goalkeeper.

Yep. And then secondly, did the ball cross the light? I've given a goal. Okay. We'll check all of that. I don't care if the ball crossed the line. That's not interesting. But what we're looking at is this slide Yes. Slid into the goalkeeper. So everything we just talked about into the, bring it to this pole,

it's pretty difficult to tell. I think he might have saved it. And what are the options here? It's, do you keep it as a goal? Do you blow a free hit defense? Do you have a free hit defense and a green card or free defense and a yellow card? If, if, and I'll accept a five or 10. It doesn't matter. Then it's irrelevant what happened then

start to gets straight back up there. Need an angle from the side to see where the ball cross the line. It's clear that the player slides into charter. But that's a breach in itself. So you would think that would take precedence over what happened next

there. Dan, I have a decision for you. There's a, the, um, Netherlands player sliding into the goalkeeper, a free hit out, and the no, obviously is your referral. So free hit to the defense for the Yeah. Okay. It's not deliberate in your view. It's, for me, it's not deliberate. It's, it's gone to ground and it's not dangerous.

Not dangerous, not deliberate, which was the difference. A lot to unpack on this. We got the poll up. Let's see how we're doing. I'm sure it's on the way. A lot to unpack. So we have, again, a sliding attacker. We have contact being made with an opposing player and that contact is made after that goalkeeper makes a safe.

And the question before you is, what would you do in this situation?

Is there a separation between the team penalty, if any, or the team award and the personal penalty that might exist?

Mike has noticed that there is some extra contact. Perhaps the goalkeeper is very much alive too.

The contact there, Raju wants a free hit out or a free hit to the defense. Nick says, play on the attacker stationary before the contact. The keeper steps into him. Andrew, the goalkeeper had already gone to ground before the slide comes in, so for him that doesn't, the, the slide does not bring the player to ground, so, alright.

I understand where you're going with that, Andrew. Good. Steven, you find it hard to say. The sliding tackle isn't deliberate though. The at keeper gives the attacker a good knee in the head and we've, we've gone through this a few times and this is no shade. Because this is a really intellectually interesting play to parse out.

And when you are that umpire in the video booth, in this case, you are now in a situation where you're trying to be verbally acute in explaining what's happening. And if you haven't figured out over I'm almost 110 episodes into these particular kind of live streams where I do solo escapades and discussions with you lot, if you haven't figured out by now that trying to explain these situations clearly concisely with a minimum, uh, minimum amount of language, if you don't know that, that's hard.

By this point, trust, let me tell you right now, this is difficult and I'm still working really hard to try to improve how I do this and still making tons of mistakes. So Gareth saying that it wasn't deliberate, I think is just a slip of the tongue. Because what he's trying to do is distinguish between what he feels as a carnival offense in his opinion and what isn't.

And he's hinging that on the word deliberate, but unfortunately, but he doesn't have to do that for me. The action is entirely deliberate. It's entirely intentional that he's gone down in that slide. But the question is whether it's actually dangerous, does it bring the player to, to, does it bring the goalkeeper to ground?

Does it even disadvantage the goalkeeper in this situation? As the last question that I would put to you, Okay. For Purdy, it's a free hit. Defense attacker appears to start and stop the slide after the save Doesn't seem to be any danger. The goalkeeper must be allowed to turn towards the rebound even if the attacker's obstructing.

Okay. Uh, McDowell, you think the slide is fine and then there's a bit of a tetto tet between them. Not sure how disadvantaged the goalkeeper is after that, but he does trip accidentally over the player on the ground. And yeah. And that's, and and so we're, we're starting to get into the meat of this here and I think maybe we can cordon off the section.

Would we apply a personal penalty in this situation? Is this, is this a mandatory 10 minute EL card, for example? Like, let's, let's just deal with this right now. Was it a sliding tackle against a player in possession of the ball that makes contact and brings that ball carried to ground? No. So it's definitely not a mandatory yellow card in my view.

For another kind of penalty for danger was the the attacker in full control of their body and decided to make that slide? Yes. Did they cause danger by doing so? Some of you might be thinking, well, the goalkeepers got lots of equipment and all that kind of stuff. Just cuz they might need a little extra oomph in order to get bruised doesn't mean that this isn't potentially a dangerous situation and we would still apply the same standard.

But if we see this degree of contact, Would we, would we feel that that's still dangerous enough to require a personal penalty? I'm not sure. I'm not sure when I put it to myself in terms of, oh, it's a, um, if that were defender, they'd made that much contact. Would I feel that that's something that's card worthy?

I might, I might. Because there is contact, it's not bring to ground contact, but it is a contact. Is it, is it potentially dangerous? Could it just, cuz it doesn't break somebody's legs, doesn't it, does that mean that we can't penalize somebody for being at risk of breaking somebody's legs? Or does that mean that the attacker exercised enough control to not go in at full pelt and take that risk?

I don't know. Watching it a few more times. If you're not calling a foul by the goalkeeper, then it's a non deliberate obstruction after the slide. And it's a free hit defense because you feel there's enough disadvantage to the goalkeeper there in the next playing action.

The slide is deliberate. Yes. Taco good and late. Yes. As well as, as well as the response as well is the response of the goalkeeper, but the goalkeeper was not disadvantaged. So a play on for you. I understand Taco, you would argue a free defense without a card as the slide was not dangerous, but there was an obstruction resulting it from it.

And I guess what, what I'm interested in is for those of you in the crowd who are goalkeepers, do you have moments of which that there are, there is body contact between you and other players, and are those, are, are you finding in the, you know, in those moments, if that, if that contact happens because you're in place and you're.

And you're making a save or you've moved into a space where you're best able to make that save and then there's body contact, the contact is gone, you're set and ready for the shot. Do you feel then that that contact disadvantaged you from the next action?

I know I kind of begged the question there in that statement, but I'm kind of wondering, um, , Purdy, you're obviously a goalkeeper and you know that you have less, fewer injuries than your teammates and that sort of fair. Steven, your goal, goal keepers were all that. Yeah. Your big softies, you're absolutely right.

For Jamal, uh, the player made contact after the save the sign of the goalkeeper does not affect the save. With the wet pitch on purpose. This is a play that comes from the surface. Yeah. Oh, of course. Nobody does it on sand, turf , no personal penalty acquired. It may just a verbal warning. Yeah. In in other situations.

Yeah, very much. And you're watching it even more. My McDowell. So now you know what my problem is because I, I watch the clip and live and then I go back and I actually create the clip and Final Cut pro, and then I bring it in here and then I watch it a few more times and then I watch it with Youo. And by then I've watched it 40 times and I have to keep going back to my principles the more I watch it.

You say you're looking at the pad into the attacker being partly pretty deliberate. He's made the save with a stretch and then suddenly he knees his back. Uh, the knee is back over his ankle. The knee is back over his ankle. The knee is back over the ankle. What does that mean?

They do that on your sand pitch when it's wet, it's on its last magazine slide for Miles Demon. Okay, let's, uh, let's end the pole and see if I can wrap this up in a two minute warning. I have no faith that I'm gonna be able to do this, but let's find out.

Here's your two minute warning. And what did we say? So 43% of you agreed that it's a free hit to the, to the defense. Okay. And then a bun and 20% of you wanted the card as well.

And then,

For a bunch of you, you wanted a goal and that was 30% of you. 31%. So the, I mean, there's a lot of, okay, that's 73% of you think it shouldn't have been a goal, and 30% of you think it shouldn't be a goal. I actually feel that the goalkeeper is not disadvantaged in making the save at all. He has lots of time to get back up.

He's set, he's where he needs to be, and for the times of other levels of contact at this level of play with goalkeepers, I do not see this call being made at all. So for me, if we don't feel that that slide is dangerous enough that it wouldn't even warrant a card, then I'm, I'm kind of wondering, well, what you know, how much disadvantage is there truly there Then.

I don't think there's an obstruction. He's got plenty of time to get back up. So for me, I think that's what I'm going with. Okay. We're gonna have tough situations like this to sort of puzzle through and parse through, and I think it's worthwhile to go through the steps in order to sort out all these things.

When we don't have a video umpire, we're gonna have to go to our colleague and say, okay, you need to help me step through this was, tell me about the slide and was the goalkeeper disadvantaged? And then you're on your own about whether the ball cross the line or not. Obviously cuz your colleague can't help you with that.

So there you go. Kind of,

uh, you think the initial reaction of the keeper is just following the ball. He needs something. He finds something obstructing him, so he gives it a bit extra. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's nothing super malicious in it. He's just gonna like, Hmm. I'd clear them out too. Um, Steven, by bringing his foot back underneath him, not moving his ball towards the foot, that's stretched out.

Okay. I think I, I see what's happening there. Or Denman Oh, that was, yeah. To Denman. Okay. Having listened to you. I agree. The goalkeeper's clearly set and unobstructed by the second shot. Thanks, Purdy. That means a lot to me. We're, we're just getting to know each other here, so I'm, I'm, I'm glad that, that, that had a, had a bearing.

It's, it's difficult because I really, what I would like to see is that the sliding attacker for doing something that wasn't super dangerous but was dangerous enough. But that didn't disadvantage. I would still like to see a card, but the goal is given at this level. That's a shit show. Like just nobody will understand it and nobody will like it.

And actually at every level, nobody would like it or understand it. It would be such a hard self, such a hard sell. But to me there's a separation between the personal penalty potential and the the team award. And if this had happened somewhere else on the pitch, this had happened outside the circle and a player won for a slide for some weird reason and made that degree of contact, but it wasn't worthy of a team penalty because the ball wasn't even there, you would wanna do something about it because you still want the players to connect themselves in a safe manner.

It's a tough one. , we're gonna do lunches in the Discord party to work it out. Okay. You g you guys, you nerded out like the delightful nerds that you are my favorite. Thank you very much for that. That was, that was an interesting conversation. I liked that. Uh, let's get into topic two because after all it's one o'clock and I've got lots of time.

What?

Deliberately playing the ball with the body. We're gonna have to go a little faster. You voted goal, Steve, on the last one. 60. I appreciate that about you card. Okay, so this happened a little early in the tournament, but I wanted to bring this out because there's a little bit of, it actually kind of almost has, has hints of sliding and diving.

It's a nice little tangent. Or not sig, it's a nice sig from one to the other. and I don't even think, yeah. Well, I don't even think we really need to take a poll here. Is anybody surprised to see a yellow card come out for this particular play? And if you are, why? And let's just talk about it. I just, I don't wanna assume what looks very obvious to me is obvious to everybody else.

So feel free. Um, you disagree on the obstruction. He trips over the player, but he's not on the floor. When the ball comes in, he's standing up. Okay, we're gonna have to fight about this later. McDowell. Okay. So what we're seeing here is, uh, a New Zealand defender attempting to intercept the ball and he doesn't corral that first attempt.

So there he goes. He gets a stick on the ball and he's trying to do everything he can to make sure. That he, that that ball doesn't come through. Now when you watch it in slow motion, again, it makes everything look a little different. But he is in control of his action here in diving and stretching out.

When you go to ground, you are at risk that you are gonna end up playing the ball with your body. And that's exactly what happens. This Alistair is a breakdown, fell. This breaks down the play because he's doing everything he can to make sure that the attackers don't regain that firm possession of the ball and be able to turn and go into the top of the New Zealand circle in the center.

So, uh, Mike Mack, he's recklessly putting his ball body in a position to stop the ball. If he misses with a ball with a stick, it hits his body. So it's definitely a yellow. Yeah. Player knew it was yellow without even looking. I mean, he was a little bit. I wouldn't say he was confused, but he was dismayed.

He was like, oh dang, dangerous play on block. Definitely a yellow, a yellow's a bit harsh. No, it's not dangerous. It's not dangerous. Not really. Who's he endangering? Well himself, yeah, but he is deliberately going to ground in order to make sure the ball and being reckless as to whether his body is going to stop the ball from going through.

So Al, I think it is top of the circle. That is an intentional fell given the time of the game. Quarter. Four, six minutes left, and it's a three, three game. This is a big call and Herman gives the penalty corner as well

for me, there's just no question. No question at all. Deliberate attempt to prevent possession for Rachel and Graham. The intent is to break that down legally are not high risk, high reward. Yep. And, and this is why I keep talking Graham, about the difference between using intentional in the sense that we understand it as native, native English speakers and reckless as to the result.

And Steven Hunter, yeah, you're not still here, but this, this was also something that, that we talked about in the server with, with Steven, which was that we have to separate those two things out because somebody is going to say, well, I didn't mean to give up a penalty corner. I didn't mean for that ball to hit my body.

That wasn't my intention. My intention was actually to dive and to hit it out of the air and save the. That was my intention. But you were in full control of your action, which was to stretch out, go to ground, block the space with your body. So the risk was if you didn't have control of the ball, if you didn't play it away, it was highly likely it was gonna hit your body.

And that is a good thing for you. Because if it was only a free hit, well that gives all your teammates a chance to get back and reset their structure, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That is what breakdown play is, and that is why we have to use these words very intentionally when we talk about it.

I mean, maybe it could have been a green earlier in the game, but still it's just, yeah, taco, you see the New Zealand player dive into the ball and the England player ha, Indian player has the ball backwards and therefore lands on the ball. What if the Indian player was a little later to touch the ball? I, I, I don't know, like a lot of different things could have happened here.

Um, and what we have to penalize is what happens. So, but given the impact, now you see the breakdown. Excellent. Good stuff. Okay. Here's the second scenario.

This says is probably gonna be a, should be the final stop. Steve, did he? Okay, good. He played the ball with the buddy straight, right? Yeah, I was copy. Well, thank you. If you're going deliberately with your body apart from the stroke, it's actually, oh, just cleared it out. That's uh, it should be a card. Okay.

Nick, I'm going back for this. Well, I was about to say double Nick. This is really important. Okay. And when I'm trying to build consensus, that means sometimes I have to nudge people out of what I don't, what I feel is incorrect thinking. So you are saying the body contact isn't inevitable when the player dives.

It's a very clever play by the attacker to put the ball back to him. Into him. Okay. Just because it's not a hundred percent certainty doesn't mean that it's not still very risky as to the likelihood. We don't expect players who aren't goalkeepers to be going to ground. In order to play the ball on a regular basis because they don't have the privileges goalkeepers do, nor the protection in order to play the ball with their body.

So when they go to ground and they put themselves in what could be a dangerous situation and they're blocking a big, long space, damn Skippy, the Indian player is full within his right to put the ball back into him. We do not have the manufactured file in the rule book anymore, and really he's reaching over.

The interception has just happened. How much skill do you think the Indian player expected to deliver in this moment? That's a big onus on him. That he suddenly has to avoid this player who's decided to go to ground and take up space that he's not entitled to do because he can't use that body. Okay,

so let's flip that around and let's get back to the other situation. So for Godders here, it's a penalty, stroke and a card. So let's see. Um, Kat, may I say that Yahoo did an amazing job at this tournament. You learned a lot from him. Yahoo's presentation is Barnan just fantastic and there's a ton to learn about that.

And Goddards, you were surprised a card was not given as well, considering the impact on the play. I think, I'm just gonna guess. I'm not certain. Wasn't there audio wasn't turned on? Thinking that that's probably the conversation that Matt's Grand Busch was having with Yaku in that moment is alright. And like Matt's is not famous for being a very composed player just on the deal, just between us.

So I think he was doing a very good job in keeping. From what he was trying to say at the right level and having the right conversation with Yahoo, but I'm pretty sure he was saying so if that's a stroke, because he's intentionally, he's intentionally gone to ground, taking a high risk, very high risk in this sit case that he's gonna play the ball with his body.

And it has a high impact on the play because Valin, their top scorer, their best player is unmarked in front of Vincent Van Ash in the circle.

Okay, good. Thanks.

and Yahoo did have a fantastic tournament. Yes. So I can see the argument that Graham Bush was making there. What was interesting about this is that you don't often have the chance to go to. One or two calls and Yahoo's initial decision was for a penalty corner because if the player, if Venet had managed to use a stick and in that fashion had played the ball off the end line, he was gonna call that as intentionally playing the ball off the end line, which is absolutely valid.

But he also, has a sneaking suspicion that although he can't see a hundred percent from his angle as to whether the player has used their body, instead

he, he stops time and I mean, he could have taken a self-referral, but he just asked Steve and he is like, Hey, captain America, yo, get on the comms. Did he play the ball with his body? And he knew exactly what he was gonna do after that and went to the penalty stroke.

I don't care what that is. You're wondering Purdy Ps on a card, wondering about my thoughts on the first German player who went in for the tackle. It's a bit body contact with a bit of a body check with Nobel contact party. I did not look at this. So let me have a look. There's nothing unique about this.

Its something which every 20 or 30 that is the

Mm. So if, if you do mean the one who was, who was pressuring the shot taker, um, yeah. I mean there's, he, he does a good job of leaning with minimal amount of body contact. There is always body contact at this level and it's whether it was disadvantageous or not, I don't think so. He got his. He got a shot away the way that he wanted or his intended pass away the way that he wanted.

So,

and there was some ball contact he missed. Okay. Um, Luke, in the slow angle, you can see the goalkeeper. Just shout at his defender. . I mean, there's goalkeepers in the world who know the rules, and then there's Vincent Van Ash and he is at another level. He knows exactly what's going on. He's very, very, I, I have fangirled about him on many occasions.

And his video referral at the Euros for the German hand on the stick that he had noticed earlier in the year in Pro-League, but decided never to appeal it. He was not gonna bring it to anybody's attention and let them do it in the semi-final so that he could refer a goal. It was scored on a penalty corner because the stopper used his hand.

He took his hand off his stick and he kind of went,

how? How can you not be a complete fan of that, of that kind of player? I follow him on Instagram, like I can't help it. It's that good. So the annual penalty stroke, he part here is missing. That's missing is there's not a certain goal prevented here. N none nor is a foul against the attacker. Oh, taco, come here.

Lean in. Lean in. Okay. Actually, let's do it this way.

Penalty stroke is awarded. I'm gonna have to change my, the color of my pen. Now, just to draw out this, there are two separate things that you look for. You look for either an offense by a defender, which prevents a probable scoring of a goal, or,

or, oh, this is a lot more dramatic if you can see me drawing at the same time,

an intentional offense in the circle by a defender against a player who has possession of the ball or likely possession of the ball. So on last week's video or maybe a couple weeks ago, someone was asking me about likely possession and, and that sort of thing, and, and he said, well, if, if the player doesn't have the ball on their stick, you can't intentionally offend them such to fulfill this requirement in 12.4 B.

And they had forgotten the likely possession of the ball, and that is one hell of a likelihood in this particular case.

Oh, that's okay. High risk, high impact, definitely penalty, stroke and card, depending on context.

I, I don't wanna get into really why I think like all the reasons that go into not a card in this particular situation and the final of the men's World Cup. But what I want you to think about is the impact here, the impact on the play,

and whether a penalty stroke is enough in your game. I think there's gonna be many situations where you come to a different conclusion and you're gonna be awarding a five minute el cart there. That's all I can say. Yes, Quentin, you remember best referral ever. I'm sure that's what a riata is. Is that what a riata?

Yes. Best referral ever. Thanks for backing me up there and Hi there. Quentin. Are you? Are you new? Are you, you get the DJ O horn. Okay.

Okay. Looks like we weren't running a pole, so cool. I'll just move to the next one. It's all good.

Excellente. So that, oh, okay. Yeah. We'll be able to speed through this one. This is goalkeepers moving their feet early on a penalty stroke. Semifinal up against and black.

I would like a pole on this one. Fabulous. Just because I want you to exercise your decision making powers here and stick down so quick to it. Tom Bone obviously wasn't watching the key just to keep his head down. So Taco, I see what you're saying here. Anticipation. This is no longer as of about the last sort of four years, something that we should be focused on when we're making these calls.

We have been instructed and briefed and pounded into our little umpiring heads over and over again that we are not supposed to be applying a score ability criterion into whether we awarding intentional fouls or not. We are simply to award them. And if we award them, then we can also award personal penalties.

If we award a personal penalty for an intentional foul, we must give the team penalty upgrade. Okay. And I guess I'm really pounding into your head because this is every, every show, I think I make mention of this, it's been 108 shows. It's a lot of shows just thing. Is there a link to that referral? Yes, there is Queen and I will find it for you and I will put it in the description and there will be a little thing on the YouTube, like a little card that flashes up going, Hey, because boy did I make a big deal out of this when it happened.

Is this topic gonna stress you as a goalkeeper? Maybe.

Okay. You better vote quick because I don't wanna belabor this. At all. So hopefully you've all voted. I'm about to end the poll and I know there's a lag. It's about 20 seconds between when I talk and when you guys hear it. Am I gonna wait 20 seconds? Yes. I'm gonna delay this cuz you better have your vote in and all that kind of thing.

I do believe in the replay that I break it down very much for you on this replay here. Hasn't played the ball. Hasn't played the ball. Hasn't played the ball. Hasn't played the ball. The right foot moves. Hasn't played the ball. The left foot almost. Now it's moved. Now we plays the ball. Let's end the poll.

Two minute warning.

And we have a s Ooh, I gotta change the color back. This is why I had a chalkboard set up you guys.

60% retake and 31% of you wanted a were saying play on. Okay. Um, and that's fair. And 5% of you wanted a retake in a card as well. And so just to quickly go through the rules on this situation, and actually I've got it right here, I think. Okay. So for a defense during the taking of a penalty stroke, if the player defending the stroke prevents a goal from being scored, but moves either foot before the ball has been played, the player can be cautioned and for any subsequent offense must be suspended.

Okay? So you have the option. If a goal has been prevented by an early foot movement, you could warn them. You also could card them right away, but if they do it a second time, you must card them. In this situation, in the semi-final of the men's World Cup, I would've expected just a retake in a warning, even though they have a second goalkeeper, cuz it's just sort of big.

And we're looking at this language here about, um, moving either foot before the ball has been played. I don't think there's a lot of, a lot of room for us there. To go any other way. Okay. Difficult to see in the moment. What was interesting to me is that, um, they had their referral. Belgium had their referral and didn't take it, and they were just like, oh, okay.

They won. Anyway, they went on to go to the final, but I thought, whoa,

there you go. Here's another one.

So, so you can see that that Yaku is not afraid to lay down the wall with Vanana. Anyway, here we go. That was kind of an interesting little, what Tom, and he puts his hand in his pocket, gets van. This is what a Tom, so Tom Graham Bush considers it. Did he move his feet? He turns back to Yahoo and sort of does a motion like feet.

He had his referral, could have taken it, but even then they're not sure. Okay. Hasn't played the ball right there is when he plays the ball. Same, same, same poll if you wanna do it.

And this is for the last one, so I'll just go through your comments on the last ones and you can watch the se the next one. But for all of you watching the replay, all these comments are for the last play. Okay.

I hope I answered that question Al. You know, y. You, you pop into to a what up Wednesday? You gotta bring the goods. You gotta bring the goods. Get out your rule book and have a look.

And I think this might be sports ball, but I don't know. And I don't care cuz this is a show about hockey and this is the last one. Moved and saved. Goalkeeper has gone early. Purdy, it's a retake. Uh, goalkeeper moved early for Luke. Okay. And you say play on David. Oh. And what is going on here? Is that gonna show up?

It is.

You don't have to stand still. Al look at the words

Al, look at the words. You don't have to be still, you just can't move your feet. So a goalkeeper who bounces up and down without moving their feet. Cool. Goalkeeper who smacks his posts and does all that thing, that goalkeepers, I think is really cool to do. That's fine. As long as they do move their feet.

You can't move your feet, just don't move your feet. He could do like the, the, the macina as long as he doesn't move his feet.

And because as he is moved both. Could you go with a straight card? He could. I don't know the fact that he saved it, uh, with such an early movement. I don't know. Like I wouldn't have been surprised not to see a card. I also would not have been surprised if we did, uh, sorry, did I? Whatever. Either way, I would not have been surprised.

What I was surprised at is that it wasn't a retake. I am the worst at seeing these, like there's a lot of stuff that I think, ah, I'm a pretty good on pirate. I'm really bad at single keeper movement. I just kind of think, yeah, they're cool, let 'em do what they do. I'm lasse fair as it were about goalkeepers, but this I saw in real time and went, or that I saw in real time.

Okay, so let's see what's happening with this one here. Uh, no, that's not it.

uh, I'm not sure which one was it, but who, who your man is Jamal, but I'm sure you have Mary many spirit animals here. Purdy, technically. Okay, so we're probably talking about this one now. If I'm wrong, correct me please. And I apologize. Sometimes the delay just makes it really difficult for me to make sure the comments stay with the right clip and I can still move along at a.

Reasonable pace. Um, technically his feet move before he gets the ball. You think Keely will get angry if you tried to make No, no. Not at all. The second one is less clear. Uh, says Godder, but looks like an early move. Retake. I think that this is, this is one that you wouldn't necessarily see. I think we, the foot moves slightly, but there's more movement of his knees bending and his hips and, and, and things like that that maybe feel more like a movement also.

I mean, he kind of moves at left foot. It's the left foot that really moves a little bit more.

It's fractional. You think the Cooper's? Yeah. So Luke, I saw the same thing. Same as the last one. And you would give the caution? The caution, but not the card. Right. Okay.

Mike, disconnect your buzzer. You're, you knew it. Can you move after the shot is made? I sure hope so. Otherwise, you're never gonna make us save unless they shoot it straight at you. Everyone. Just remember, David's my friend. No piling on. No piling on. He shows up just because he likes to give me moral support and for some reason learn about hockey umpiring, even though he's never watched a game of hockey in his life.

I think it's awesome. Okay, so I wanted to address those just because I know they were on social media, and I just want you to be able to internalize, think about how am I gonna prepare myself if I'm in that situation? How do I approach one of the biggest decisions, especially if a goalkeeper makes a save, one of the biggest decisions.

A semi-final, a final in whatever, the top competition that you get to umpire in and all that pressures on you. How do you prepare yourself? What are you gonna watch for? Do you grease the wheels in your brain? If I see the goalkeeper move early, this is what I'm gonna do. If the goalkeeper makes the save, this is what I'm gonna do.

If the ball goes in the net and the goalkeeper moves early, what am I gonna do? Pay advantage, call the goal. But you wanna go through that in your mind so that you're ready for those decisions. If you are the supporting umpire on that penalty stroke, what are you doing in your mind? Does the ball cross the goal?

Does the ball cross the goal? Does the ball cross? Does this skirt make me look good? Does the ball cross the goal? Does, you know, you, you've, you've really gotta narrow down your thinking and grease your wheels. What am I looking for? What does it look like if the goalie goalkeeper makes us safe? Can I move around?

If the ball gets caught in their equipment, what if the ball gets caught in their equipment? What's the decision? Work through these things before it happens so that you can make the best decision for you in that moment. Thank you very much.

And Nick, that's why I, I think you're absolutely right and Nick's just pointing out that if you watch, you know, if you watch a hundred percent of penalty stroke attempts, you're probably gonna see on 80% of them the goalkeeper moving their feet a little bit. And so you're looking for something that's clear.

And I think what really stood out, and I mean, I was watching Van Ash on that one just because of what had happened with Block in the, in the game before in the semi-finals. And I was really like, cause my wheels were greased, right? Mm. And I thought, you know what, in real time, no. And we watch the video and it makes it so much more clear and it's slow motion.

And I did stop it. I freeze framed it right at the moment, the ball's being played. So for me, I, I don't think in real time that you would call that as a retake In the first one. Yes.

Um, yeah, I wasn't sure. Uh, Godders, I've watched it a few times. I, I don't know if he actually did deflect it onto the post or if it was just go to the post. It's from the angle that we have from the camera because they don't give us that if they'd given us the same angle we had on the block. Save. We would've known if there was a touch because the angle of the ball would've clearly changed, but they didn't give it to us, which is an interesting directorial decision.

Hey, production team, why did you do that? Okay, put keepers in starting blocks. . Oof. Can you imagine false starts? That'd be. So we have reached achi air. Oops, sorry. Okay. Um, so the last thing I'm going to talk about, I'm probably not gonna be able to wrap this thing up in terms of wrapping up the hockey World Cup.

So let me just go through this one cuz it did get raised on the server and I wanna make sure that we are very clear, cuz maybe you missed this, maybe you weren't around in November when we covered this topic about throwing a face mask.

Right on the times. In fact, it was Christian part, I beg pardon? Right. After the completion of quarter number two, team India went with the same policy, but one guy is down for South Africa. Okay. I, I have your question, right? Do you want a physio one? Let me do it with him first and then, and then we'll take a referral, right?

They've called a referral, which they're allowed to do. Yeah. Which they're, it's in the circle. Yeah. So if you can hear, Bruce is handling this so well. Referral called by South Africa for a frown on the circle. You can check the situation please. Okay, Bruce. And he explains to Harmon pre that, look, I'm gonna tend to the injury first, but they've called a referral so just hold on.

Tends to the South African player and make sure that he's okay. This is a, you know, this is a head injury slash could be blood, could be serious face injury. Have a decision for you. Uh, defender number, I don't know where you work, Catarina. Send the gear off without careless. Therefore you can award a penalty corner and I recommend a personal penalty for number 30.

So that was Perfect. Who was throwing his gear out of the playing area. Okay. But he was scared. And reason being be getting that card, five minute suspension for ah, take a five minute yellow card, get a five minute yellow card. Okay. So that was the situation. This is the rule that we're looking at. And McDowell, we talked about this in the server and what I should have done was to make you go and look up nine 16 in the moment.

But I didn't because we were talking about whether it disadvantages the player in the moment such that. You know, is it, is it needing of a team penalty or should it just be a card? So nine 16 is one of those rules that we forget about, especially because we've forgotten about that word, which we'll get to in a moment.

But players must not throw their masks, okay. Onto the field at the ball or at another player, umpire or person. It's almost like umpires aren't people,

but the remedies are prescribed. A free hitch should be awarded if this occurs outside the circle and a penalty corner awarded if it happens inside the circle. This rule that has been sitting in front of our faces for years that we haven't had to look at has come into play yet again. Oh my goodness.

Because this was the one, oh, this is loud.

I dunno why that was so loud.

So this was Nov, I, I, we, we dealt with this in November, I think of last year. This is a pro league match, Catalina and I will link to this in the description and in a card above so you can go watch that discussion. But after this incident occurred, no pe, no personal penalty was given and no team penalty was given because everybody forgot.

But you know who was here at this tournament, at this particular Pro League event? Fede, you know who the video umpire was in that particular situation. Fede. After this happened, the F I H rules committee the next day sent over a briefing saying, Hey, by the way, nine 16, and also we are asking umpires to please award a five minute yellow card in any situation where an umpire gets struck.

And if you're gonna award a five minute yellow card when umpires get struck, then you absolutely know. And here's Bruce. Okay. I mean, yeah, Bruce was obviously there in both situations too.

So he got in both situations. So Bruce was the reserve umpire, and he came onto the pitch there. So he can't do anything about the decision that was made beforehand. He's not allowed to, but a penalty corner had already been awarded for something else. Anyway, but there you go.

Oh, you know, audio be hard. There you go. That guidance is for if the ball hits the equipment though.

Oh, damn it. McDowell. Nope. This is the one I want.

Hmm. So that's why it didn't apply. He's right.

Hmm. I'm gonna have to puzzle upon this more because in the situation that we were looking at, in this situation that we're not that situation, this situation that we were looking at, the ball was in play. And I, I did leave the poll option. If we had had time for a poll, we would've done it where it is.

Okay. Is it a, um, The ball, the, the play has stopped about here because Bruce realizes there's a head slash facial injury on the pitch and time just has to be stopped, um, immediately. That's the guidance that we have in the briefing and in every good rules clinic that you ever had, we'll tell you that. So the play could have been restarted with a bully.

It was in India's possession and it could have been one of those uncontested bullies. South Africa plays at off end line India regains possession at the 15 meter, blah, blah, blah. So in this situation, Fede recommended that the play restarts with a penalty corner and a personal penalty. Didn't, he didn't prescribe it.

He didn't say, you have to give a yellowman five minute yellow. He left that up to Bruce. So that'll be very interesting. Yep. So Taco you two are both right in catching me on that. Uh, you assume it was given for reckless play in danger to the South Africa player. Yes, but the question is just like I was talking about, and this this theme again, of the goalkeeper being disadvantaged by the siding attacker, something can be dangerous and need addressing with a personal penalty, but not require redressing with a team penalty because the balance, the scales of justice have not been disrupted in vis-a-vis the two teams against each other in what they're doing in the contest.

Okay. So that's why this is important. So what I'll do, everybody is I will go back and check with. People that I know. So whether that briefing also prescribed that if somebody throws their mask and hits somebody inside the circle, regardless of where the ball is, that that needs to be considered a penalty card, a, a, a penalty corner, sorry.

As well as the personal penalty that's prescribed. That very well may have been the briefing.

And it's kind of hard to, to argue against that in a lot of ways. But it does throw a little bit of a wrench into our normal considerations of what should be considered a team penalty or not. So you're a little thought out, comment, discord, ignore the intentional offense on a player not presented to the ball in the circle or Ill thought out.

Yeah, but it still has to be disadvantageous. Even if the player doesn't have possession of the ball, there still has to be disadvantage. In order for a team pillow to be needed. Right.

I don't love this. Yes, they can. Yes they can. David, excellent. You're glad this came up. I'm not, cuz my brain is because I, I thought I had found something and then I'm like, oh, you know what? I didn't read it carefully enough, did I? No, I didn't. I was preparing for a show and I was rushing and I didn't read carefully.

Here's the good news. I can correct myself. Okay, before we go, I just want to mention a couple of things that I should, and I. Uh, we're not gonna have to, we're not gonna do the wrap up, cuz that's gonna take me a long time. You're just gonna have to come into the after show in the Discord in the local, and we can talk about that as a group then.

But first of all, I would like to thank this fine human being. Where's my, ugh? Nicola Brown from Australia has joined the ranks of F H U three T Green. Thank you very much Nicola, for your support, and I hope you enjoy access to the clip library because that is something that you get. If you wanna read more about this and why I have card colors for my members, it's, it's a branding thing.

Go to fhm pars.com/f H U three T and you can learn more about this. Find group of humans who also. Joined by this otherwise excellent. And sim, I mean, similarly excellent human being words. William, I thi I thought I had talked about him, but I guess I didn't. So I am gonna congratulate him again. I, I don't care.

I could do this every week. William, you, you could be my yellow member of the week every week. Gave me a fine, really, really nice unsolicited testimonial. He dmd me the other day and he said, you know what? I wanted to just, I wanted to say something nice. So here, use this as a testimonial. And I'm like, okay.

And then I just sprayed it all over social media. I do have a bunch of those. If you wanna help out with a testimonial, if you're appreciative of something that we've been able to do together as a community or something I've been able to provide for you, I think if you go to fh umpires.com/testimonial, you'll go to a page where you can enter something.

I really should have double checked that. Give it a try. Who knows? You're warming up for your lunges. We're not doing lunges. Oh, yes. Okay. He's off home on Friday. That's the update on Ben, which is great news. So glad that he's doing well. We were chatting on Monday slash Tuesday for him and he was talking about just how well hockey India's been taking care of him and just, and that's just really nice to hear because if you can imagine being still stuck behind in the host country, all of your friends are flying home.

You've suffered this injury, you've had a surgery, you don't. The doctors haven't told you when they think you might be able to be released, when you might be able to go home, what it's gonna feel like to get on a plane with all of that going on. And I was just like, Ben, oh my gosh, my thoughts are, you know, with you, with, you know, thinking about how that's, that's gonna feel, that's the first thing I thought about when he got in.

I thought, oh man, the flight home's gonna be terrible. uh, priorities. But, uh, anyway, really glad to hear that he's uh, going to be going home on Friday. So there you go. Oh, stop it. Look, I have a quota. You've exceeded your quota of saying nice things to me and then I just have to tell you to stop cuz I get really freaked out.

Did he stole Morrison's mustache? I don't know. Testimonial doesn't work. Hm. Okay. , do you want me to hold on and find the link? No, I'll put it in the description. I'll put it in the Discord server. I'll put stuff. But let me tell you, there's an awful lot of twe from Godders there. , because he keeps saying nice things on Twitter, and so I'm like, I'll add that to my little testimonial wall.

Could be the wall of love. There you go. And he is looking forward to eating bread. Ben is looking forward to eating bread rather than rice or corn cakes. That is excellent. Okay. And then the last thing, I wanted to toss some flowers out in the direction of these fine humans as well. Very proud to have seen that and outta focus.

I'm very proud to have seen that. Celine and Mali. I, I'm probably pronouncing it so wrong, but Mali sounds.

they were appointed to the men's Belgian indoor finals, as you can see from the graphic there. And I just think that's awesome. And I mean, like the men's final, okay. Also making some history was Rachel Williams who umpired, uh, in the super sixes and did a men's finals match as well. And Rachel was, I think she had her first international men's match in the Pro league in Argentina, uh, just a couple of a month or two ago, several weeks ago, and did a fantastic job.

I was really, really impressed. So, uh, really glad to hear that she got an opportunity at the men's super sixes. But again, it's, it's about if great umpire should be doing great games. End of story and let's keep on pushing to make this the normal thing. It was parfait, it was perfect. Yes. My little French, my, my, uh, French lessons from high school are coming back to help me.

I'm glad it was insightful. That's really great. And there you go. Thank you so much for all of your participation. Thanks for catching my mistakes. As always, uh, thank you for being here, being here for each other and being supportive because that is what we really are all about. Making sure that we are improving as a community and sharing our understandings and doing that in a way that keeps everybody excited, engaged, having fun and ready to umpire the next week.

So thanks for being here and we'll see you in the Discord server. Alright, bye now.

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