Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 123

📅 June 28 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

What's up with all the dropped sticks? We'll also roll through a few aerial scenarios, check out a ball played with the handle of the stick, and another first: PC equipment kicked back ON to the pitch.

We're in for another fast-paced episode so join us live to work that decision-making muscle!

See you there!

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⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00 Chair Dancing
03:08 Topics!
05:30 1. Another Stick Drop?
29:24 2. Aerials Analysis
57:20 3. Stick on the Ground Obstruction?
(We skipped 4, don't @ me)
01:05:29 5. Protective Equipment Returned To Pitch
01:10:23 6. Diving Attacker?
01:22:37 7. Intentionally Played Off End Line?
01:35:36 8. Goalkeeper Kicking a Free Hit

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

🟢🟡🔴 🏑

Transcript

🎶

[00:02:35] Good Wednesday friends, how are we? Happy What Up Wednesday? Happy Hockey Week. Happy all the things. Week. We are at the end of quarter two and I don't know about y'all, but it's time for some holidays coming up, so I'll talk about that in a little bit. I will also fête a few fantastic members of our community, but first:

[00:03:07] Here are our topics for the day. Yet another stick drop. What the f? How is this possible? Aerials analysis. There is sound. Okay, good. Rolling ball on a free hit. Free hit ball placement, and protective equipment returning to the pitch. What are you talking about? Keely. We'll show you shielding or a breakdown.

[00:03:30] Tackle our seventh topic intentionally played off the end line. And we are gonna wrap this puppy up with goalkeeper kicking a free hit. Yes, it is one of those incredible episodes of joy. I've been experimenting with a new faster format with more content. I hope you enjoy it. Keep bringing me feedback in the Discord server and in the chat and the re, the live chat and the replace because you know, I like to know that I'm doing what you would like.

[00:04:01] If I'm gonna tell you what to do on the pitch, you should tell me what to do in the stream. I think that's only fair. So, let's see. Okay. Hamish is here for the first time forever, but only for a bit. Okay. Well, it's good to see you. So the, the sound is good. Okay. Sound. There's sound. Okay. Cool. Don't, don't mess with me, Gary. Gary, don't mess. Okay.

[00:04:23] Um, as you see the note in the chat, we have moved our polls to Discord because ain't nobody got time for the YouTube system. It's just too slow for us fast moving folks. So please, if you're not a member of our Discord server yet, you can pop in there. You don't even have to grab a role. All you have to do is agree to the rules. Just click on the little green check mark emoji. Just, just boop, that little emoji button. Got a new, new phrase, boop it, and you will be able to vote in the livestream polls.

[00:04:58] So we, I would love to see you there because. It's not as a process of, you know, telling you that you're wrong or that you're right and giving you bonus points and stars. It's about participating and having a bit of a vested interest in seeing how everybody is feeling about this. Because my goal is to develop consensus, usually my consensus, but I want to develop consensus. I want us all to be on the same page. So what do you say? Time to get into it. It's busy. Let's go.

[00:05:30] Here is our first topic. We are gonna deal with this yet another stick drop. What word?

[00:06:02][00:06:02] ‘Kay, have another look.

[00:06:32][00:06:32] And, yep. Another time on replay, just so you can get a full picture of it. We do have two defenders in the picture, and it's worthy of checking out both of them just as a little hint, just as a little ping, little, little idea. Do I have a little thinking about it? All right, now let's get to the discussion. Please head into the discord as soon as you can and give your thoughts as to whether you feel this is a penalty corner, a free hit. I don't remember what the options are, whatever Cat said. Those are the options.

[00:07:15] So give that a shot. Now, you might remember that time at bandcamp last week on the show, we worked through another stick drop, and we worked through one of these, uh, I think after the last Euros as well. And I think we fully fleshed out here that we know that dropping the stick itself is not a foul. The stick on the floor then just becomes part of the pitch.

[00:07:47] It is not something that, that blocks the way it isn't it itt a uh, it isn't a foul in and of itself. To be there. Okay. And so there's a few interesting things that happen here, and what I, I wanna kind of take it outta the equation because it's not really something that we're gonna try to get too much into.

[00:08:11] I, you know, there was a little slight mention in the commentary about kicking the stick out of the defender's hands. The defender wraps his stick in there, does not make an attempt on the ball. He misses the ball. And then by no particular action other than the attacker still running that stick is, is kicked out of his hands, but not by any, you know, it, it wasn't like a, Hey, get away from this ball, or a, that player has a good chance on the ball is making contact with the ball, and then the foot dislodges the stick.

[00:08:50] There was no contact with the stick. So I don't wanna talk about that one. I don't wanna get into that one at all. So that aside, we do know that it is a rule that a player cannot participate in the game without having a stick in their hand. So as we saw last week, there was an issue because the stick was dropped, and the defender who was close to the M line, this was in the GB Germany game.

[00:09:15] I think it was really, um, it was really difficult for them to, to consider at that moment, or it was really difficult for that player to say, you know what, I'm just gonna leave that stick and step out of the way. I think he kind of panicked a little bit and he thought, I better get that stick back as soon as possible.

[00:09:34] And when you think about it, like players know that they need to have their sticks in their hands to help 'em participate. So totally understandably, he reached down, he grabbed the stick, but he, in that process, he committed an obstruction. He, he did lean a little bit on the attacker, not very much for this level of play, but just in the action of being down there and not playing.

[00:09:54] And not being, you know, actively, you know, making a tackle. Just the fact that he was getting in the way, there was an obstruction there. And so that ended up being a penalty corner against the defending team. This situation is a little bit different, and what's interesting is I edited out, but after the, after the, um, the penalty coroner is taken, there's more discussion with the Dutch players and Jonas talks to them in Dutch.

[00:10:24] And so I got a translation and, but he was, he was basically repeating the same things that he's saying here, is that he felt as though that the player, because they had dropped their stick, they were blocking the way to the goal. Now I'm taking that to be that he felt that there was an obstruction there and I'm not so sure about that.

[00:10:45] So I'm gonna look at your comments and see what y'all have to say. Uh, let's see. David, did he drop a stick or was the shin of the white clothes player responsible? Yeah, that's, that's a difficult one. I, I don't, it's, those kind of situations are always difficult, but hopefully I, I sort of drew the distinction there.

[00:11:02] I think that I don't really wanna focus on that for, for this purpose, cuz it gets really weird. Oh, do I not have the backroom music on? Of course I don't. There we go. Oops. Now you know, my fenwick framer, there's the button that I'm looking for. Look, I tell ya, it was so close. I was gonna have one of those shows.

[00:11:26] There you go. Thank you. Oh, no, it's totally fine. David. Like, it's a great question to ask and it's just that for the purposes of this, I wanna try to get to, you know, a, a clarity on this particular topic. Sometimes we can have plays put in front of us where we could literally, Call four or five different things immediately leading up to the one thing that was ultimately decided.

[00:11:53] And maybe those things should have been taken into account. And this isn't really about what should have been done on the pitch at the time. This is about us understanding how are we gonna make these determinations when it happens to us. So what's interesting for me when I look at this play, and let me just pull up the, the replay here.

[00:12:17] I'm gonna go to this when, when we look at it here, let me slow it down a whole bunch. Okay. So now the stick is out. This defender is slightly behind. Not a ton, but he's slightly hot behind. But think about, you know, Wellen here, his channel, his optimal place, the hotline between him and the goal is there.

[00:12:46] That's the channel that he is gonna be looking for. But this particular object is not a problem. It's part of the pitch at this point. Okay. So we know that. But what we do have is we have this, we have a second defender who's come in and who has attempted to tackle that I don't think was especially clean.

[00:13:16] And I think they are blocking, they, they, they have committed what is a, a, a foul that is reckless as to the result of breaking down this play here.

[00:13:31] Okay. He does, he does get quite a bit of the ball, but I'm not sure. I mean, let's, let's see, because I might be, I overlooking this. I want you to look at this with me. Okay. So I'm gonna focus on 32 right now. Okay. I'm not gonna focus on the stick at all. Or the d the, the defender who's dropped. It comes in.

[00:14:00] Actually that may have been a clean tackle and in that case, it's not the defender's responsibility to get out of the way of an attacker who is going in one direction unless this player, because be due to the fact that he doesn't have a stick in his hand and he's taking up a space that is channeling.

[00:14:25] The attacker into that defender. Okay. So right now, if this defender was out of the picture, where would this attacker go? He would draw to the right, he would beat this player cleanly off the reverse, potentially.

[00:14:49] Okay. But he can't do that with that defender in the way. What do you think about that? I wanna, I wanna hear what you all think about this.

[00:15:03] Defenders helpless as a stick was kicked by the attacker. Yeah, but he didn't get the ball at all. Like he was late after the ball. So he has no business sticking it there. And what, what's the attacker gonna do? Like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm gonna stop now because you put your stick in a position where you're not gonna be able to get the ball.

[00:15:20] I gotta stop running now. Like that's not fair. And he doesn't make any, like, th this really is not, this is just one of those accidental things. I, I truly believe that if you can point to something that would make it more reasonable, that you can stick your stick in between the ball and the attacker. I mean, let's face it, if that stick doesn't get dropped, that's gonna be a breakdown fouled by that defender.

[00:15:53] Easy. Right? You'd be calling the penalty corner on that guy 24 7 and twice on Sundays. Like, it would just, that's how that would work. Yes, exactly. That's, that's the only, that's a penalty corner for you as well. Yeah. And that's, that's totally legitimate Stijn. I, I totally agree. I hope my, I hope Descript will pick up your name correctly for the first time ever.

[00:16:19] I dunno how many times I have to correct it from S T A I N. So annoying Alistair, the poorer initial tackle was enough for you. No obstruction by the first offender is the line of the attacker straight ahead towards 32, and the attacker was not able to take optimal line due to momentum. I mean, maybe I'm going through this when I go through it in such slow motion that the detail makes it look like, yeah.

[00:16:39] There's more space. I also want you to consider Jonas's angle on this is that he now has like a flat line from himself to 16 who drops a stick to Veen to 32. I I should know the other players' names too, but I don't Okay. Okay. Just don't at me. So, so in this case, actually that might be you. Okay. Anyway, so, you know, I, I think it's, it's reasonable for that not to necessarily be seen properly.

[00:17:13] Okay. I can, I can understand where that came from. Uh, Hugh, what do you have? You'd say the tackle from the defender was a foul, so you can just call it on that the defender, channeling the attacker towards his colleague also seems fair to you. And, and by seems fair, do you mean fair as in, like that's a reason because he doesn't have a stick and he's, you know, that, that, that could be worth a pc.

[00:17:32] I mean, for me, that's almost like a, that's almost just a free hit territory because he's really not trying to stay in there. Like, he's just like, oh, I gotta go get my stick.

[00:17:48] Yeah. And you're agreeing with Jonas's perception there? Um, Raju is just like, Hey, it's just a pc. I wanted to, I wanna make sure we work through the principles though, make sure we go through step by step, because that's important. We don't always get that. When we get punditry analysis of the game, so for our purposes, so we know what to apply in the future.

[00:18:13] Like, let's, let's try to nail that one. The PC's right. But not for the reasons. Yeah. Uh, that were expressed in the moment. But yeah, it's, yeah, absolutely tricky. Absolutely tricky. It would've been very interesting in this moment if this had gone up to video referral and the Dutch had their referral. If they wanted it, they could have taken it, but they decided, because this was fairly early on, this is, I dunno, this is q3, I mean, but still both teams in this particular game kept their referral till very late, if I remember correctly.

[00:18:47] Which I probably don't, I might just be making that up. But regardless, they didn't take the referral here. Okay, so what do you say? Uh, for me, I think it's reasonable to see this as a penalty corner for the very first taco and so, The, the decision ends up being, uh, correct, but maybe not for the same reasons that were, that the pitch umpire expressed.

[00:19:13] So, uh, what do you say? Let's, let's see how this goes. Let's move into, is this gonna work? Let's look at the poll. It's struggling to refresh. Oh, you're so cute. Okay, just hold on a minute because clearly I have to log back into Discord in this little mini browser. So I'm just gonna do this, talk amongst yourselves, because if this doesn't work for the whole thing, many, many scenes are gonna be broken.

[00:19:49] So I'm just gonna go back.

[00:19:58] It was, it literally 10 minutes ago, it was fine.

[00:20:05] So I can't explain it. And of course I closed my password manager. Of course I did. Of course I did. Where is it now? It's somewhere. Hasn't pulled up yet. Hi

[00:20:24] there. Okay. There's nice music playing in the background. How's your day been?

[00:20:33] Has it been great? Are you killing life?

[00:20:40] I gotta say that. It's been nice to be in a rhythm where there hasn't been quite so many pro league games to a day is, is is good. It's enough, you know. Thank you. Whoever just liked the stream while I'm trying to sort out technical problems, you're an angel. Thank you so much. Is it because I have great hair?

[00:21:09] I was explaining it to my friends last night. I don't think I should get compliments for having great hair because I didn't do anything other than pay for it. I just, I just can't, I can't take credit. Okay. Ready? Back to live mode. Let's see if this works. Okay.

[00:21:37] I'm not afraid of awkward silences. This has been happening all my life. Okay, so where are we at here? Do we have any votes? Unique voters. Hundred percent of you said, I'm sorry. I was just really shocked because the pie chart was one color. I'm like, did anybody vote? Did anybody even, did anybody vote? A hundred percent of you believe it's a penalty corner.

[00:22:03] Thank you very much for that. And if you haven't, if you're watching this on the replay, you can still participate for the whole week after the, um, after the live stream. The poll will be up. So go have a look and talk about it. And I think the background music is just a little soft.

[00:22:28] I dunno what 0.21 is. Oh, 21 minutes. Okay. The channeling doesn't seem intentional, but what did he ex Well, but what, what else could he do? You know, in the two seconds, remember we're watching it slow moment. Everything looks more intentional. It looks l or everything looks more reckless as to the result.

[00:22:48] But I mean, literally he's running pal Mel, trying to stay with this attacker. The reckless thing is tossing his stick to try to make that tackle. After that, you know, He's not expecting the stick to get, you know, knocked out of his hands. And after that it's like, I dunno, that's what I say. And no problem.

[00:23:12] He's using the break. Oh good. Thank you. Oh, so William, you're the one who clicked the like button. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. If you haven't done that already, here there's a thing. Here's a cue. Yakus here. Everybody's good now. Jaco's here. Hi friend. Good to see you. And Yus is here. Good to have you as well.

[00:23:32] And you're just listening this morning. Okay, Shayne. Ah, I don't know if I like that. I don't know if I like you just listening. There you go. And there is the link to the polls. Okay. So I hope that helped elucidate things. It's often just so complicated we're we have to work through a bunch of things that attach, but just keep this in your head.

[00:23:54] That a drop stick is not a foul. A stick on the floor is not a foul. The floor is lava. The pitch is lava pitch ain't lava clearly cuz everything's falling on the pitch. But it's the actions of the defender who's dropped their stick that you wanna keep a close eye on. And whether they take away a channel without their stick in their hand accidentally, you know, or unintentionally, let's, let's use the correct terminology unintentionally, just because they're like, oh my God, I gotta pick up my stick.

[00:24:28] Or, because they are, you know, actively, you know, in the motion taking the stick and they, they do something else like we saw last week. Okay. So I hope that was interesting as always, one can never tell until I get feedback. Okay. Um, let's give some flowers and a little bit of. Praise out in these streets.

[00:24:55] First of all, if you haven't tuned in for the last couple weeks, uh, Hamish is doing things wrong. He's doing the hockey wrong because he's playing. So, you know, not super pleased about that action. But fine, go ahead, go play for Scotland. Okay? You're too good for us umpires. He's gonna be with us soon. Don't worry.

[00:25:17] And he's playing at Euros. This is your last chance to support him. So if you haven't done so yet, please go to the GoFundMe. There'll be a link in the chat in a second. There's a link in the description. I don't think that's the correct link that's in the Facebook post, but um, please do go support him.

[00:25:35] It's really awesome. And everything that Hamish learns at this tournament as a goalkeeper is gonna come in real handy when he becomes an even better umpire. That's what I'm saying. Okay, coming up this weekend, Mike McCartney. Hi. Uh, FHu3t Yellow member and the man who has ingrained the words toodle pip forever in my memory, is gonna be umpiring at the Ben Dudley Bowl on July 2nd, along with Nicholas White.

[00:26:08] Uh, this is a fundraiser for blood cancer uk so please consider, uh, slipping a little bit that you can spare to the Just Giving donation page. Ben sadly passed away, uh, last month, uh, from Hodgkin's Lymphoma, and he was a very treasured member of particularly the Bristol University, um, hockey community and the larger hockey community in England.

[00:26:36] So please give a thought to that. And Mike, thank you so much for your contributions to make that game happen. I'm sure it's gonna be a fantastic celebration of Ben's life and everything that he's contributed there. The last thing that I wanted to talk about was, um, this stud. What,

[00:27:02] sir, Joep van Dijk, if I say that correctly. I don't think I am. I'm sure there's a pronunciation I'm missing there. Our friend y only went and not only did a semifinal on the under 14 Dutch National Championship for club competition, he also ended up doing the final in which he gave this beautiful red card fully on purpose.

[00:27:26] It was amazing you, congratulations. I'm so proud of you. I'm so pleased that all the work you've been putting in is paying off. You and I have worked on your match debriefs and gone through quite a few of your games, which has been really fun for me, and I really appreciate the chance to be able to support umpires in this way.

[00:27:45] So if you are wondering what the hell I'm talking about, this is part of our FHu3t yellow program that if you are able to get match footage of yourself, I will sit down with you and we'll invite the rest of the yellow members in and we do a debrief of your match. And this is a way that we can really ask some good questions and find out ways that we can push your performance up to the next level.

[00:28:11] It is really difficult for the people on the ground to support you properly. There's a lack of bodies, there's a lack of time, and sometimes you just need a fresh set of eyes and a Canadian accent telling you what to do. So if you're one of those people, consider joining the FHU3t. We are making some changes to the memberships this summer, so you might wanna get in now and, uh, get ready for September because we've got some really cool things in store and you will not be, um, left out.

[00:28:43] They grow up so fast. You're right, traval. That's so great. Okay. Tremendous stuff. And let's move on to our next topic and something, something, something I'm not gonna try to say says Taco.

[00:29:02] I know better. Wait. Taco is your son, Alex, am I just putting this together now? Oh my God. Because I think Alex sent me a DM last week and we did his topic and it's a good thing. I'm so pretty. Because I'm not very smart. Okay, next topic, let's go.

[00:29:29] The accent did help. We're gonna go through three aerial situations now and this one was quite amazing in the moment. I would like to hear what you think that that sort of distance these, this overhead rule is one of the, almost the greatest contention in town. I'm glad I caught up.

[00:29:57] I'm glad I caught up, Taco.

[00:30:02] So the free hit is called against the Netherlands here.

[00:30:10] He was honored, he helped, he, he helps, he helped me sending in a really nice question over Instagram and it was a good one to have a look at. Tugsy. Good to see you. Yes. And yours, your Tugsy is just doing my job for me and making sure that you all like the show. Thank you. I appreciate it. You being here and contributing is also one of the most meaningful ways you can show your appreciation, so that's good too.

[00:30:39] Okay, let's have a look at what this poll says. Excellent link to the actual, I don't know if that's to the channel, to the poll itself, but that's very well done. Um, so when I saw this in the moment, I was like, what? I mean the initial receiver is clearly the Dutch player and the um, is this Germany? Yes.

[00:31:11] Sorry. It's, it's like Germany and New Zealand playing. And then the Dutch play in black as well. There's been a lot of black and white uniforms on the pitch. This is really, really challenging for people like me. And so I was confused as were the commentators until I watched it the next time. And Stijns looking at the controlled and on the ground for as long as it stands.

[00:31:36] Yeah, I'm not an interesting phrase. I'd have to turn that over in my head. But let's see. I'm gonna pull this up quickly and let's see if I can get a slow more replay. And there's the reception. What do you notice?

[00:32:16] Free hit over here. Free hit attack F hha, burial over attackers in the circle. And even if he's not precisely in the circle, what does the rule say? Rule says this, it's permitted to play the ball high above the attacking circle so that it lands outside the circle, subject to the rules related to dangerous play, and that the ball is not legitimately playable inside or above the circle by another player during its flight.

[00:32:49] So just because it l could hit the turf just outside the circle doesn't necessarily mean that it is legal. And we'll get into that in the next scenario. Did that get, you got me? Gabby, great call. Way to nail it. Yep. Straight into the circle. William found it. Well done. And it's a good reminder. We, we, we can switch this one off a little bit, especially with teams that we expect know the rules.

[00:33:27] There's certain patterns of play. The aerials over the circle are still, and especially for most of us at our levels, it's an exceptional moment. It doesn't happen very often, so we really have to be clued in to this. Okay. Let's see what the poll says.

[00:33:44] Please refresh. How did we, do you know what? I can't read it. It's too small.

[00:33:53] Okay. Um,

[00:33:59] oh, that's much better. Okay. I just made the window bigger. 45% of you said penalty corner, 45% of you said free hit out 9% said play on. I mean half and half. It's a tough call. And again, another little reminder for ourselves that we can switch our brains off when somebody else is telling us the information.

[00:34:24] And I remember the moment I was like, Gabby seems really content with that decision, like really chill. And, and some of the players did too, but some of the players were outraged. I mean obviously always, but I, I think I said in the moment during the watch card, I'm like, I, I need to see that one again because I, I think I missed something.

[00:34:45] Cuz that just doesn't seem like that's not a mistake that he would make from that angle. Not seeing the five meters. He got it. You honestly didn't see where the ariel was taken. Yeah. But it was a great, great call. Ha. Haha. Gotcha. I don't wanna be a Gotcha. Okay, let's have a look at the next scenario and German defense apart.

[00:35:10] Morrison goes big and up and over the top again. Wait right ball, that's a fantastic ball. And here is Bush. Oh, that is the right one.

[00:35:20] This is the one I wanted you to see. Different game. This is New Zealand and Germany. This one isn't a poll option. I just wanted to show it to you because of the wording of the rule that I just showed you. Okay. This whole idea of permitted to play the ball high over the circle as long as it's not legitimately playable.

[00:35:47] So what we had in this situation is we had a defender who was stretching up and if their aim was better, If, if only they had some skill. I'm just kidding. Oh my God. But if they had happened to have made contact with that ball, that would be legitimately playable. Does legitimately playable mean that an actual play is made on the ball?

[00:36:16] This languaging is left over from when it was illegal to use your stick over, above your shoulder. So if a player could have played the ball the aerial inside the circle, but needed to have their stick over their shoulder in order to do so, that was not considered to be a ground on which that would be an illegal, um, that would be a foul to throw that specific aerial.

[00:36:42] So I'm not giving you an answer on this one. I'm giving you a thought. First of all, let's change the wording of the rule. Obviously, nope. To self, uh, this has to go on my list, but. Also think about what is legitimately playable. And just because a player doesn't make contact might mean in your particular situation that this could actually be legitimate.

[00:37:13] What is legitimate? I don't know. Doesn't make sense. It's a bit small on the stream. Okay, let's see if I can, um, to be, to be or not to be.

[00:37:33] Um, can I do this? Yes.

[00:37:40] Okay. So here's wicker. Vicar is vicar,

[00:37:49] and here's the ball. Oh, isn't this so great that I can do this with technology? I'm so excited. Okay. So at this point he's, he's going to, going to miss it, but I think, I think that might be the tip of his stick there, like right about there. So I'll slow this down super slow. Like he, it looks like he's pretty close to playing it.

[00:38:15] Okay. Does that help? To help you see where that one was.

[00:38:33] The Meriano family is back. Sorry, it takes me a couple seconds to decide how I'm gonna butcher your name in this particular day, but glad to see you. Um, yeah. Oh, but, but hang on, hang on. I'm hauling you up. I'm hauling you up. It's only been 25 plus years meters. We do not speak of the Y word here. It does not exist.

[00:39:03] It's not in the rule book. There are no Y's. There are only mss. Okay. A bit close to the attacker within plenty of distance, but within the circle would be afoul. Um, well if he's a bit close to the attacker, excuse me, he might be breaking down play. If you consider the attacker, the initial receiver, so is vicar's.

[00:39:27] Gotta be careful here. He's trying to intercept outside of playing distance and safely. So there's a lot in play here. Like this is really complicated when you start asking all these really good questions that you have. Oh, the font on the polar result. Oh, okay. But wasn't it cool how I zoomed in? Okay.

[00:39:48] Let's go into the next one using book form at the moment. Yes, but this is another aerial that caused some consternation for line. Beautifully done. Maybe this no receiving. Well, me, I was concerned and every week it's, I'm able to see examples of, of things that we're looking at where there's an extension of the, uh, the next sort of permutation, the next potential consequence of the aerial interception and how that works.

[00:40:28] It's, it's really fascinating, but go ahead and go vote in the poll and tell me what you think on this particular decision, because it's a tough one. Yeah, it was really close to a stick on that one. Speaking on the last, yeah. Okay. Oh, it's a bit small to read on the stream. Okay, I'll see if I can make the window bigger.

[00:40:53] Magic monkey asks what's more important than the five meters from the initial receiver? The five meters in the circle, the five meters into the circle, because that comes first in the sequence of events. Okay. But for the pass going in that direction, there's nothing to say where the defend, where an initial receiver is and who the other players and how far they have to be.

[00:41:18] But for that pass that is potentially illegally sent. So it's not that one's more important, it's just that you have to go step by step by step through things. Hi Stefan. Uh, you, if he's within plaintiff distance, you're calling the no five meters on the arrow first. Not the directly into circle. No, no opposite.

[00:41:45] Okay. Does that make sense? If I'm on drugs, tell me, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not that high. High Kiara. Okay. Looks like the defender moved in, was the defender who's moved in, was already five meters from the receiver. Okay, this is complicated. Let's work through it step by step. Ooh, baby.

[00:42:21] Get to your world, and a copyright violation. Okay, so here we go. First step. Okay. Okay. We don't have to worry about straight into the circle. Well, side 23, that's prefix substep. Okay. Initial receiver. Got our initial receiver. Okay. We have attempted interception, I argue maybe not five meters between them, so less than five, but safe.

[00:42:59] Okay? Outside of playing distance and safe, then the ball gets mishandled

[00:43:15] and it's mishandled towards this player. Now, obviously this is the point of the interception. Look at this distance. That's well over five meters,

[00:43:28] so. Are we penalizing this player for attempting the interception, but failing to do so? The failure still caused the lack of control for that player who then mishandles it and gives it up. I ask this question unto the, what do you think

[00:44:03] the Dutch receiver let the ball bounce in the direction of the defender? That's one. Uh, Matt, you're allowed to step outside playing distance. However, if you fail to play the ball cleanly, then you're likely to give away in the sense of pc. Okay, so my question is, why? And I just, I wanna sort through that, that reasoning.

[00:44:21] If we're saying that it's a risk that the defender takes attempting the interception, he better get it right or else he's going to be liable to be infringing the five meters. And that causes the lack of control and therefore you don't play that on. That's a foul then. That makes sense. Okay. And I am totally happy with that logic.

[00:44:44] I want us to, to, to reach that consensus if that's the direction we're gonna go in. You wouldn't the being within playing distance make it not legal to play at the ball though? You can see both points. Okay. And, and it depends on what you mean, not legal to play at the ball. Like which player is not able to play at the ball.

[00:45:07] And I mean, I'm arguing that that's outside playing distance. I think he's okay. And you may argue that that's not safe. In which case, what do you have? What you have is a pc.

[00:45:27] So if the interception shouldn't have been attempted because it was dangerous or it was within playing distance, that's a pc, potentially a penalty stroke if you think it was reckless as to the result. But I, I would argue in this case that would be out of proportion. I think this is a really, this is really about not trying to stop the play.

[00:45:54] I think this is a, a reasonable attempt given the circumstances, given the distances, given the skill levels to actually try to make this, I don't think this is as high risk as you would pegged to be a penalty stroke on the other end of it. Does that make sense? And you had the same question. I. So did I answer it?

[00:46:18] Dutchie Mc, Dutch says the Dutch player is not disadvantaged by the first defender being too close plays the ball too far away and then pushes the defender. So it's a free hit out.

[00:46:33] Okay. Are you cheering for the,

[00:46:39] but it was the other way around. Probably something to do with the level you think according to the rules of peace should follow for the MR Interception within five. Well it's, and and that's a question. Is that what we're talking about here? Are we saying that more skilled players can attempt that interception and we still put an onus on the attackers to be able to skillfully receive that ball?

[00:47:08] Is that what we're seeing?

[00:47:15] Oh, you, you're commenting on the last one probably. You might be catching up Dougie. That's okay. Um, oh, this was about the previous quote, the defender being within, playing to Cynthia, the attacker, but within the circle he's not allowed to be there. Um,

[00:47:32] well that's hypothetical because for me in two B Okay. In this scenario, he's definitely not within pulling distance. Not for me.

[00:47:49] That's probably five meters. That's probably five actual meters. It's flat to us on that angle. Okay. So take that into account. But he's inside the circle. It's, it's like four meters.

[00:48:05] That's fine.

[00:48:09] Okay. You think a lot of vampires are struggling to make these calls consistently because Cisco level's cat? Yep. That might be true. Okay. Alright, I hope that helps. Let's go see what you said in the poll results and let's see if I can make this.

[00:48:30] I'm just gonna make it a lot bigger. A lot bigger. Okay. Um, but I need to put my camera on top of that. There you go. So for this one, 73% of you were asking for a play on. That's very interesting. And then 27% of you for the free headout. So that's a pretty strong, that's, yeah, it's almost three quarters of you saying that.

[00:48:58] So totally understand. And I think in the moment that's what I'd be saying. I. At this skill level, I'd be putting that onus on the attacker to be able to, to be able to play that. And just if a defender attempts an interception and does so legally just because they miss it, I don't think then we punish that defender for failing to make the interception and saying that anything that happens then is their fault, and that the attacker doesn't have an onus on them to be able to exercise their skills.

[00:49:40] Not at this level, at many levels below. I mean, just having somebody jumping in front of you and waving their stick would be freaky as f and that's fine. Okay. Um, what did the sweeping of the hand of the Empire mean actually? I believe in the moment the verbiage that was used was something about no initial receiver.

[00:50:05] So, um, so again, not sure where the actual, uh, reasoning came in here, and that doesn't matter. We just need to parse through what we would do in the situation and what the actual issues are. I hope that helps. Okay. Thank you for that one Announcements. Let's see, don't forget, this is the last week to pre-order your F H U three T Matt shirt, and we have these beautiful, I mean, they're so, they're like lush to, to not put these on my head, especially with my hair the way it is right now.

[00:50:52] It looks so good. But again, these are for, these are for two lucky winners. Two who pre-order their match shirts. Okay. By July 1st. So please get yourself in there and big thanks to the reverse stick. Go follow them. Go listen to their podcast cuz they are quite funny. I have to listen to them on like two times speed because I listen to everybody on two times speed.

[00:51:19] But you might be able to listen to 'em on like 1.25 and be like, this is good. Okay. They are very funny and they've been doing this for a very long time and I think the thing that we're getting in danger of in the hockey world after C O I D has been gone and now that we're in this feeling like we're getting back to regular life is it's really, I.

[00:51:46] Difficult to keep up those things that everybody was doing during Covid because we were stuck at home. I am personally really proud that I've continued doing weekly live streams. I don't stream as much as I did during Covid. I was doing probably two live streams a week and putting out a recorded video.

[00:52:05] But to be able to have that consistency in a market and in a field where you don't get a lot of props, you, you don't make a lot of money, you know, you're, you're not gonna get all the bitches and blow outta this. So to be able to continue and fight through, I think is something to be really proud of. So I would really encourage you to support Matt and john@thereversestick.net and thank them for sending these ROAR bands.

[00:52:34] So there you go. Great lengths. Uh, there you go. Okay. So that's one thing to think about. Um, and also the Mission Critical Positioning course, eh, is still going strong. I have launched this in the Discord. Okay. So there's a version on the website and the same content, exact same content, but. Formatted just a little bit differently is in the Discord.

[00:53:05] So if you haven't signed up for this now, and if you didn't know that I was doing this, surprise, it's there. You can go look at both formats and I would love to hear what you think is better because I really hope it's the discord because I wanna get rid of the website stuff cuz it's a faff. It is so much work and it doesn't always, it's technically just,

[00:53:29] and if it's in the Discord then you guys can, you're right there and you're like, I need a clarification on this thing, or I wanna feedback on this. And I, you know, right there in the discord, I am always there. It's like, uh, embedded in my brain. I have Discord alerts going off back here in my hippocampus or in my corpus CLO or something like that.

[00:53:49] So if you haven't signed up already, give it a shot and then go into the Discord and have a look at how that works. Um, let's see. Yeah. Okay. And the last thing I wanted to talk about is, wait, wait. Oh, I have to go back to this screen. I may have alluded to this before. I'm gonna go on holidays. I'm not gonna go anywhere cause I have to save my money for business trips.

[00:54:19] So my vacations are now business and my business is going on vacation July 7th through 21st. So I will not be streaming during that period of time. Okay. Just, I am preparing something that I'm gonna release in the middle because I wanted to do just sort of an exploratory analysis of a trend that I've been noticing in top hockey that I think we're gonna have a real issue with in the coming months.

[00:54:48] But that's gonna be recorded. And then when I come back, I'm gonna be heading out with Jamal Burgess to the under 18 National Championships in Brampton, Ontario the week after. I'm gonna try to put out content while we're there. Give you a little behind the scenes of what it's like at a Canadian National Championship.

[00:55:06] Matt Harrison already knows what that's like cuz he is been to one with me. And I will, um, try to do that, show off the great things that the umpires here are doing and the things that I'm learning throughout the tournament. So I'll give that a shot. But anyway, that's gonna be me sitting in that, in that boat every day.

[00:55:30] I hope. Something like that. Okay. Let me just address a couple questions here. Um, oh, thank you, reboot. That's really nice feedback. I appreciate that. I did notice you like going through the modules, so yay. Thanks and I wanna see some video. So you have to do that, Ruby. You have to go get out there. I want you to take video of what you're doing and come bring that back into the server so we can look at how you're implementing the, the principles.

[00:55:59] This is not just a watch some videos and then we never talk about it again. This is a continuing growth journey and I wanna be a part of it. I'm very needy. Um, let's see. Okay, so this is a follow up question on the aerials. On your game on Sunday, you were in gold and an aerial went to you in gold.

[00:56:17] There's a striker next to you and was initial receiver. You were next to them. Okay? There's one of those two things are true. Either there's an initial receiver or the two of you are standing in the space next to each other. The two things are not true at the same time. Okay? So this is why you have to be very clear when you describe the situations that we can't see with our own eyes.

[00:56:45] So that we can actually give you advice. You stay where you were and okay, how do you, how do you stay where you are and try to intercept, you just tried to receive it. An interception is trying to, okay, just take it back. Take this question. Totally rephrase it and go into, ask you in the discord. Okay. And Yes, ma'am.

[00:57:11] All right. Where are we at? Where are we at? Um, are we at four? We at three. Boy, we're we at three? I'm in trouble. Yeah, we are rolling ball on the free hit. Let's get moving. About three of them in a row. That's got to beat New Zealand. Boy. It is. He. Still going. He hard trying to find the foot is laying off the foot.

[00:57:40] Get your votes in right away. Cause we're not gonna spend a long time on this. Check those five meters before you enter the circle. Okay. I will check the five meters

[00:57:51] free here for the take downs. Clear. That's where the blow is. That's outside the dotted line. So given that there was, at no point did that ball actually stop, you could criticize it for not stopping at all, but the actual free hit was blown outside the dotted line, Jonas. Okay, so that decision was upheld, was interesting about this is that, first of all, if you, if you go through the situation to determine the the five meters, one of the important parts that we wanna notice, lemme see if I turn on my video pencil camera here, is that.

[00:58:31] The ball carrier takes the ball at an angle. Okay? And that's crucial. So he's dribbling this way, which means that, yeah, the five meters, that's pretty clear. What the commentators start talking about is whether there was actually a, a stop on the ball and the discussion becomes whether this is a rolling free hit.

[00:59:00] So at this moment, he's touched the ball and now it's bounced to the turf. And that to me, that moment here, let's see if I can scroll back to exactly it. It's gonna be a little finicky. This there, this is the touch right here.

[00:59:28] Watching it in real time. I didn't have any confusion as to where the free hit was taken from. Was it dead stopped? No. Was there a distinctly different? You know, he receives it here, plays it sort of down into the ground and it bounces, and then he's off. Just because there was an emotion in front of the ball doesn't mean that's the only way that the spot of the free hit can be shown to all the players.

[01:00:01] So to me, this isn't a rolling free hit. Let's see, how many of you actually had a chance to vote before I move on to the next one? Okay, we actually have a two minute warning on this one, which is probably longer than I talked about, the scenario part.

[01:00:23] Let's see what we've got. Here it comes. Five of you managed to vote, so good work and 60% of you didn't like it. Did you not like it because it was rolling or did you not like it cuz it was five meters? Please get some comments in quickly and maybe I'll just keep refreshing this as the votes keep coming in eight of you, 75% of you're happy with it and 25,

[01:00:56] I don't,

[01:01:00] I'm not good at math. I'm, I'm just not, I don't, I don't know why I matched that. Okay. So keep, you know, putting your input on that and I'll try to come back if you have comments on it. You may not, you, you may be totally fine with it. So hang on. Um, hello, Clarissa. 89. 10. You're right. You just joined. You're damn straight.

[01:01:33] You like that? Hi, I'm glad you're here. Very warm. Welcome. Um, should he, should here have been a third option, go back and take the free hit.

[01:01:48] I mean, that's an option you can use. What I think we need to consider is how many chances we give to players, especially at levels where they know exactly what they're doing. How many times do we get them, give them a chance at the Mulligan so they get to try it on. They know very well, so they get to try it on, go off on a run, and then you, no, no, no, no, no.

[01:02:15] Go take it back. And then, They keep possession and they get to try it again.

[01:02:22] Okay. I'm not saying that that there isn't ever a place even at that level for resets. I just want you to consider, and if you've been watching matches with me, which Alan, you could be watching matches with me. You'll seen that there have been more reversals in recent times, and I think they've been very effective.

[01:02:45] Uh, and I would like to actually see more of them used now that I'm, I've, I have completely changed my opinion on reversals. I like 'em now. I like them because they, they do seem to really have a punch and the data speaks for itself. Players pay attention when they don't get, when they, when they lose the ball because they've taken it from the wrong place.

[01:03:11] If they've already had a chance at a reset especially, no, no, no, no. We're done, we're done with that. Okay. If you take it from where you said Yes, uh oh. Sorry. Uh, so the question from Magic Monkey is if you took it from where you said it, would it still be five? Yes, it would be. It's just inside the, the hash line and then he runs at an angle to enter into the circle.

[01:03:39] I believe that's five meters. Math me, math me out and tell me I'm wrong. Um, oh, I might have gone to the next, I'm I, I went to the next play. So you, you get a headstart on it. You feel the rule is stricter than applied. You have to make sure that the ball is stationary. Attempt to, you don't see that happening though?

[01:04:03] Yeah, cuz we don't care. Okay, what we're looking for is the information dutchie. Whether we've got a clearer indication of where the free hit has been taken from stopping the ball, that's just officious and we don't wanna get in the way. We're trying to provide an exciting, flowing, fast game. And if we get all sensitive and officious about dead stops, ain't nobody gonna have fun.

[01:04:38] Nobody's gonna have fun. The fans are gonna hate it. The players are gonna be even more mad. And as an umpire, I don't wanna, I just don't wanna get in the way as long as the purpose of the rule is fulfilled. And the purpose of the rule is that everybody knows how far five meters is away from where the free hit is taken.

[01:04:58] Okay? So as long as the indication is there, we're good. I hope you can take that on and employ that in your umpiring as well. Dutchie, cuz I think it's important.

[01:05:10] And Raju, you can take that on too. Okay. Here's the next,

[01:05:25] that's not it at all. That wasn't it at all. So close. You guys. So close.

[01:05:34] I don't know where the other play went, but let's talk about this one. Yeah. Nevertheless, have to keep they, they have to create their own tempo to keep their own tempo. This is fun times. This is really bizarre in the moment because suddenly there's a glove on the pitch and the New Zealand defender uses their stick to knock it away.

[01:05:54] And of course the first thing I thought of was when I saw this like phone barrier. Oh. They didn't discard their equipment properly. But no, watch this, the Dutch player in just the regular course of his running because it is not a foul for that attacker to leave the pitch. Everybody knows he is still playing.

[01:06:17] This is not a substitution, this is not a fame play to, to anything at all. None of this, this is very clearly just a continuation. And Jessica's his feet go outside like, oh my God. Who would, who would call that? You would, okay. None of us would, we know better, but in the course of his travels, he kicks the glove.

[01:06:42] He actually, I think he sees it and he tries to kind of, you know, pick up his foot over it and just catches it and brings the discarded protective equipment back on the pitch. What do we do? What do we do? What does the rule require?

[01:07:02] Okay, good. Put it on the list. I gotta put it on the list. I need to start a thread in the server where y'all like, keep track of all the times I say Yeah, let's change that. Yeah. Resetting is a very difficult self

[01:07:21] tugs.

[01:07:25] You're disconnected.

[01:07:30] Um, if you do not make a quick free hit, that will Vocation is less strictly applied. True because there's less likely to be disadvantaged that you cause to your opponents with the fast free hits Location is important. It depends. It depends if there's people around, it depends if it's clear and we have to calculate quickly in the moment.

[01:07:50] Taco whether. Everybody is, is set and or everybody understands what's happening and whether the players who are inside, and that was the play that I was gonna show you that I lost. Um, it depends on, on whether the player who fouled would've been caught within the five meters, had the ball been strictly taken exactly where the foul occurred.

[01:08:19] Okay. Long story, but we have to get through it. Okay. So Revu here, you play on yet, but maybe you'd have to mandate PC equipment to be a certain way behind the back line. Oh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna open that can of worms. I do not. I absolutely do not. I do not want players to be discarding their equipment and then looking back to make sure it gets the prescribed distance off the pitch,

[01:08:48] because that's gonna put them in danger. Ish is already serious out there. We don't need to make it even harder on them. Okay. Is there a potential safety issue? Maybe tripping over the, the stuff, but No, I don't like it. Yeah, you can definitely play on here. What would we do if the ball did strike that piece of protective equipment that had been brought back on the pitch?

[01:09:22] What would we do? And you think that's fair? Okay. For me, I think in that moment, what we would do is, um, there isn't a poll on this one. Thank goodness that because it extends things, but I think that equipment becomes just part of the pitch, just like a drop stick would. Because it's not, I don't think the responsibility of the defensive team to make sure that that equipment doesn't get brought back by an, an action of an opponent.

[01:09:58] Cuz I know what I would do. I'd be like looking at the umpire, grabbing my stick and I'd be like, I'd be pulling a glove or a knee guard back onto the pitch and just be like, wasn't me. You know why? Because I'm sneaky and I'm a cheat and that's why I'm an umpire.

[01:10:23] Next, was this shielding or a breakdown tackle? Or maybe both. Go ready to.

[01:10:34] There is a pool for five. I think something's messed up. Let's just move on to six cause we've got time constraints here. That's it. That's it. That's it. About run to an end gets

[01:11:03] guilty, bu I am guilty. That is literally how I got recruited that Ian Gibson walked up to me after I scored a goal with the National Championships, the only goal I ever scored. And he said, you are the best cheat I have ever witnessed. You need to be a high level umpire. And I was like, nah, the clothes suck.

[01:11:28] Why would I do that?

[01:11:32] Hi, Sebastian. Good to see you

[01:11:38] get your votes in because this one is tricky af

[01:11:47] for tugs. He says shielding What you might notice in this moment. Let's see if I get to six. Okay. The first thing I want you to notice is that this is after a turnover. Okay? So as an umpire, when you see the ball getting turned over in the way it does here is that you should be bloop, antenna up that the player who is now chasing that ball may well be committing a reckless action in order to break down the play because they're out of formation, because that player is outta position because.

[01:12:29] Out, they're outnumbered, overloaded, whatever phrases you wanna use going forward. So that makes things very tricky when I'm watching this in the moment. And does the, do I have that? Yeah, I wanna, I wanna get to this replay right here. Okay. What's fascinating about this is watching when,

[01:13:01] when we're watching a potential breakdown tackle, we're looking to see whether the defender is getting into a position where they can reasonably attempt a successful tackle. It doesn't mean that if the defender was back here and in this space and reaching that they can't try, they can, but it's a high risk position.

[01:13:24] They're not likely gonna be able to do it properly. But from here where the player is more in front of the attacker, I'm saying this looks like there's a higher probability that this is gonna be successful by the defender. Okay. And then I'm watching the ball position as it goes. Okay. So there's the ball position, and as the tackle comes in here with the stick, okay, I'm such a good artist.

[01:14:02] The ball seems to mysteriously drop even further in behind the attacker's body.

[01:14:13] And at the moment that this defender attempts to tackle, they kind of slow down a little bit and they move. Bodily into the attacker, and we're gonna see it from the other angle When this happens,

[01:14:33] he actually gets good contact on that ball.

[01:14:39] So there's a few things that you've got to consider here in this situation. You've gotta consider, let me see, I gotta, I gotta zoom back out again. We're even too close. It's too close.

[01:14:55] Okay. And this, this isn't dead on vertical. Okay. The vertical line is, is like this down the pitch. But if we come here, the defender is coming across, which you can say is he's in front, but he's also putting himself more at risk now. But at this point, contact on the ball, it's good contact on the ball, and the attacker continues to move through the defender's stick,

[01:15:37] and then there's a fall.

[01:15:42] So what do y'all think? Now that I've diagrammed all that out?

[01:15:53] The view from in front is horrible and likely to be just as bad from where the umpire is on the far side is situated.

[01:16:02] Okay. When this is going, you can see that Gabby is coming from train track ish position. Okay. And when I say the train tracks, I mean he's kind of in vertical line to this play. So he can actually see the, he can see the play decently, but maybe at an angle he could see it a little bit better,

[01:16:38] but he's got clear view. He's got all eyes on this. There's nobody in his way. Could the supporting umpire, the umpire to which the play is moving towards, could they have helped? Could they have seen it differently? They also could probably have a pretty good view of this as well, and if they are very central on the pitch, the way that I advocate supporting umpires would do in this situation, they might actually be able to help.

[01:17:06] This is really one of those, like in between the structures, because it's happened on a turnover. And because it's a turnover and the ball was reverse direction quickly, the ball was in the middle. So at high levels of play, the, this is a bit of an unusual situation cuz usually we go from the ball being the back of the structure to the ball being the front of the structure or otherwise known as the back of the structure for the other team.

[01:17:30] And then the front of the structure for the other team, like it's the, the, the, the, the bodies in between is not where a lot of the game is played. It's played on those edges and then all the spaces get organized in the middle, but they don't, they play through those spaces, not in the spaces. Does that make sense?

[01:17:50] Am I, I dunno. Difficult to see now. He's got, he's got view. He's got view. So never have to apologize Matt. Always good to see you. Could the attacker at full speed avoid the stick put in front of him? Um, left the ball and Right the player. If the attacker had not dropped the ball behind his body,

[01:18:17] were there other alternatives there?

[01:18:25] Is the defender the one who is creating the body contact here,

[01:18:32] or is the attacker by virtue of dropping the ball behind, starting to turn the whole shape of that tackle around such that his body creates the contact?

[01:18:48] He couldn't and didn't play the ball without body contact. As he moved his stick to touch the ball, he moved his body against the attacker.

[01:18:56] Okay, I wanna see the vote.

[01:19:17] Hey, wow, this is split. I mean, there's, there's only nine of you, but if I were voting, I'd be pushing this free hit defense up one vote, which would make it a much more definitive pull because I do feel that this is a shield, and when we linger on a decision, when the ball starts to drop behind, that's when body contact does get caused between players.

[01:19:49] The whole reason that obstruction is a rule in our book is because if we allow obstruction, that is gonna create the atmosphere, the necessity for players who engage in a lot of body contact with each other. We are gonna have ice hockey. Okay. It's obstruction that prevents it. The rule of obstruction against obstruction.

[01:20:12] So to me, this is an example of why we don't allow shielding is because it creates the situation where the defender who is attempting to fairly compete with to to win the ball, has to engage in contact. But that contact is created by the movement of the attacker. In my view,

[01:20:43] the attacker has right away, but he's dropping the ball behind people. What am I, what am I not explaining here? Well, I need to understand this. Alistair to you looks like an obstruction from the attacker positioning himself between the ball and the defender, and then another foul by the defender as the defender changed his line for the tackle.

[01:21:00] Okay, so which came first? That is the issue. I'm not saying that there wasn't body contact from the defender and he didn't come in hard, but why did he do that? Why did he have to do that? He made, he made great contact on the ball and then because the ball continued to move behind the, I, I just keep saying the same phrases over and over again.

[01:21:24] Okay. I want you to take that into consideration. Have another look back on this because time is rolling, rolling, rolling. And see if that makes more sense when you watch it back and the way that I've scribbled on the screen so there's another, okay, let, okay, I'm gonna hang on if I go to six if I go here.

[01:21:50] Okay. Hang on. It just has to set up.

[01:21:56] I don't get to vote because I don't have time.

[01:22:01] I have to talk.

[01:22:06] You got offset Alistair,

[01:22:10] the shield came first. Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's, it's difficult because technically a shielding is just another form of obstruction, but it's done by the player in possession of the ball. Um, but also what the defender did afterwards as a consequence caused by the attacker's motion, that ended up being obstruction as well.

[01:22:33] Okay, cool. That was fun. This time. Pressure is good. Intentionally paid off the end line. Oh boy. This is gonna be good.

[01:22:46] This bad boy penalty corner. Just a minor call and a tie. Game. Quarter four, nine seconds left. What's so the backlash? Okay, we have a look. Think so. We're looking to see the play as Germany says, it's not deliberate. So Germany defending step in front in the deep defense from boof. Is that considered, to me, that's a deflection, but under contact, his stick pretty static.

[01:23:11] I don't think he plays at it. There's a player behind him nudging it to me. He's just got that wrong. I, I'm not sure there's, there's no forward movement. He's off balance for starters, looking at me in any way. Look at his angle as he comes in here, Rickman's. Then behind him as he steps in, there's the contact.

[01:23:30] He's just tried to stop that. Got it wrong guys. There's no clear reason to change your decision. He may water short corner and then lose referral.

[01:23:40] Okay. Get your votes in quickly. I am really, it. It's been really interesting over the last couple weeks. Of course I cursed it. I never should have said anything. At all. But I had noticed, um, with the numerous matches in the Pro league over the last six weeks, that there had been far fewer decisions made about balls being played intentionally off the end line.

[01:24:10] And of those decisions, not many of them were that contentious. And then the past week there's been a couple, uh, but it seems like there's, this is a little bit of a, people wanna complain more about aerials and, and other things as well. But I think that all of the instances and all the discussions that we've had in the past has really helped.

[01:24:33] Me in particular to crystallize the thinking behind this. And I got into a discussion with somebody on Twitter last night. Somebody, I, I don't know what their real name is and I'm sure they're a fantastic human being and, and a very good umpire, but we, we were cross haired because they use the phrase that you hear commentators say, and you hear on par say, and players say, and coaches say, and it has zero meaning.

[01:24:59] It does not help you make a good decision at all, which is the ball was only gonna go one way.

[01:25:08] Guess what? The ball only goes one way That is not probative. That, that is not, that is the most circular logic that you can employ. We have to do better than that. Okay. By using that phrase, we are presupposing the conclusion. If we say that to a player, To try to explain our decision. We should rightly get strung up by our petards.

[01:25:38] I said that out loud in a stream. Let's see what you have. Um,

[01:25:50] um, let's see. Well, if I'm giving a free hit defense, I'm probably not giving a card for the defender cause I don't think there's anything extra that I would need to address there. Um, the guidance says goalkeepers, not defenders may deflect over the end line. That's a good point. Stijn. Good of you to bring that out.

[01:26:06] Just because it's a deflection doesn't necessarily mean that it is not an intentional play. Okay. William for 23 for you is square to the sideline and seems to mis trapp it and it goes off the endline. Okay. I like that. So William, you're focusing on the body shape of the defender. Where are they facing?

[01:26:30] In order to determine where, you know, what intent that player had in playing the ball. And taaka, there's a little intent to control the ball, yet the attacker seems to push the, uh, maybe the attacker seems to push the defender and that could have influenced the playing of the ball. So Inten unintentionally for you.

[01:26:50] Okay. All very helpful.

[01:26:57] And let's see if I can get to the scene that I have here. Okay, so the reason I brought up the whole, just saying that the ball was only gonna go one way is completely not helpful is because I've been working on this set of criterion, this not set of criterion, this criterion that has a number of factors in it.

[01:27:22] And this is from the Discord server where we had a discussion and I would love to hear. Any additions that you might have to this, of the things that we should be looking at as William noted, what direction, direction is the defender facing their hips, their shoulders, their head, et cetera. So if they are facing up the field forwards, like in that GB play that I had another argu that I was arguing about on Twitter last night, facing in that direction, up the field, rather than facing the end line, it's, it gets, you know, like that's something to take into account about their intentionality of playing the ball off that end line.

[01:28:05] Where's the defender around the attacker? Are they in front? Are they behind? What is the degree of risk there? So if this is a, uh, an attempted tackle, jab tackle as an attacker is running along the end line, for example, is there any chance that that, that the, the jab tackle could go off the foot? Could go off in another direction.

[01:28:29] Where are the possibilities there for that jab tackle? And if they jab tackle off the M line, does that mean that they can't make that tackle because of how close the attacker is? It's just another factor. What direction did the swing go? How much contact, how much force was applied to the ball? Was the, how long was the ball in play before it left the pitch?

[01:28:57] Was it going slowly enough and, and at a pace where somebody else could have picked it up? How, um, what was the angle of the ball? How far away from the gold did this happen? Uh, how much body control or balance did the player have? How solid was the contact on the ball? So there's all these things. No one of these factors is definitive, but you take all of them into account when you inform that.

[01:29:24] Phrase, well, the, that's the way the ball was gonna go. It was only gonna go one way because of all of these things. So we need to be able to parse out all those things, and if we apply that criterion to this particular situation, you do the things like, say, I think the, the player was facing, you know, out to the sideline.

[01:29:47] I think the player was in front of the attacker and, and didn't have a lot of control over their body because there was somebody on top of them, the attacker was on top of them. It was very difficult for them to control what they were doing. You can argue that, I'm not sure if that's actually the case. I don't think he's got that much contact and pressure.

[01:30:09] I think he does a good job of maybe when you watch it from this angle, there's a lot more space between them than what you see when it's on the side. Okay. Maybe I'll just try to get to that. Here. Okay. When we watch from this angle, okay, it's fuzzy. Frame rates are terrible. It looks like there's a lot of pressure there, and there's that little hop by the player.

[01:30:42] Okay? Also, from this angle, it looks like there's physical pressure here being applied by the attacker onto the defender, okay? But when you watch from this angle, which happens to be the clearest in terms of frame rates, okay? There's this little bit of contact right there,

[01:31:15] okay? Hands on the back, but look at that right afterwards.

[01:31:25] Okay. I have to go back to that cause.

[01:31:32] Okay. And I'm gonna slow this down as much as I possibly can, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, oops. I'm gonna zoom in

[01:31:59] in slow-mo, which is not super effective. It looks like the defender may have had more control over the body than we expect. Then, then we think in the moment. Okay. So those are all the things that we would wanna take into account in making the decision. Like let's go to the poll. There is a poll because it's fascinating to see what you all thought of it.

[01:32:34] What do I think? I have no fricking clue. I think that Gabby's instinct and that I think is that that's what held out in the moment that that instinct to say that that's intentionally played off the end line is one to be respected because they're there in the moment. They see the, the, the heat of it.

[01:32:55] They're right there and it really helps and we're split down the middle. No surprise whatsoever. Right? So what you need to do in these situations is to default. When it's a tough call, you default to the pitch umpire in that moment. Unless there is a reason that you saw, oh, they didn't have good view of that, you default to them.

[01:33:18] Then you look, you look for reasons why that might not be the case. Rather than saying, oh, they gotta be wrong now, prove to me that I'm, that I'm wrong. Okay. And we've, we've talked about this orientation towards the decisions that I think is more helpful because in the moment, in real time at that angle, we are that person.

[01:33:42] We are Gabby in that situation, and we need to respect that vision, that perspective on the play. Okay. Um, let's see. Sebastian, at this level, you can see the, the. The players can trap a ball standing on their head and the ball wanted the, you know, so what you're saying is, again, I want, I want you to take that last part of your message.

[01:34:08] The defender wanted that ball to go there. That's circular, but the first part of it leads you to the right conclusion, which is players at this level have the skill to make that reception under pressure. They can have somebody close to them, they can be facing in that direction and manage to trap it cleanly, therefore, okay, so that's, that's what I'm looking for.

[01:34:39] And let's see. There's little intent to control the ball.

[01:34:47] Okay? Yeah, it is, it is a ton. It is a ton. And you're gonna, you're gonna take all those things and piece 'em together and it's gonna be like, oh my god. Okay, we're a little over time, but I do wanna get to the last question, but let me finish this up. You change your mind. You think you know what he's doing and intentionally deflected over the line.

[01:35:04] All fair. Look, I'm not, I'm not arguing either way on this one, honestly, which is weird for me, but I really, I really believe it in this case that I'm gonna go with the pitch umpire there. Ooh, what have I done? What have I done to that? I'm just trying to move the overlay and I think I disturbed the force or something.

[01:35:30] Okay, let's get to our last topic because it's fun.

[01:35:39] A goalkeeper kicking a free hit. Now there is a link in the description and there will be a card. Poke, poke. What the hell am I doing? There will be a card up, um, in the corner as well to lead you to a previous what up Wednesday segment. I did copious length on this topic where I lead you through step-by-step what we're looking for.

[01:36:06] Okay. So, uh, I'm not gonna go through all of those sort of things, but what's interesting to me about this is, first of all, the person who sent it to me on Instagram, uh, is, oh wait, I need to make sure I pronounce her name properly. Cammi m she is, uh, the ana, uh, Dela Di of the Chile National team. So, Cammie, thank you so much for sending in this to my attention, and I'm sure that this had nothing to do with this potentially being your team or you were one of the teams out there.

[01:36:39] I'm sure it was just a curiosity that you saw. I have no idea. I have no idea. I, I looked at your club colors and I wasn't sure who was playing and all that kind of stuff. So I don't know if this is you, you're actually involved in this, but that's usually when I get questions from players instead of umpires.

[01:36:54] But I appreciate you sending this, uh, my way. So let me roll through it pretty quickly as I can. Okay. The first of all, the ru rule, 10.1 or two, whichever one of those 10.1 goalkeepers can play the ball with their sticks or kickers. They just can't do so in a way that causes danger and takes advantage of the size and protection of their equipment.

[01:37:23] Okay? So the fact that this goalkeeper picks up the ball with their stick and puts it up in the air, nothing wrong with that under 10.1, for example, and then you move to 10.2, and I, I think this is free play. This isn't a free hit, but just in case it was. The ball would need to be started with a play by the stick that's required under 10 2d.

[01:37:47] And it can be used, it can be lifted by a scoop. And that's 10 point 13.2 E. Okay, so this is a little bit of a different angle on what we've talked about in other shows because there is a defender, there is an opposing player putting pressure on the goalkeeper very quickly in this case. And so the question is potentially there is nothing wrong with the action that the goalkeeper did and what happens at the end of this play looks perfectly safe.

[01:38:28] I didn't even bother looking to see if the aerial reception was five meters, blah, blah, blah. Nah, she's in plenty of space. All good. Okay, that's all just fine. So there's nothing wrong with that, but this is an aerial pass. So we would need to look at the launching of the aerial pass to make sure that it's safe on the way up, because if the ball is played within five meters of an opposing player, it has to be done in a way that's very safe.

[01:38:55] So it's off to the side or whatever the case might be. So I wanna know what you think You have trouble seeing the ball and if it's an dangerous attacker. Yeah, so it's okay if you don't vote because you don't feel like you can see. I guess I could have edited the video and tried to make it a lot lighter, but I didn't have time.

[01:39:18] There's a little bit of an evasive action by the pressuring opposing player. Not a ton, but

[01:39:35] yeah, difficult to see. You're absolutely right. So the answer Cammie is maybe this is a fell, and if it is, it's a penalty corner against the goalkeeper. Uh, I wouldn't card this because I don't think there is an intent or it's, it's a, it's a highly reckless play as to the danger that is caused if the danger is caused.

[01:39:59] So I wouldn't go in that direction at all on this, but this well could be afoul. What is difficult about this is that from this angle, Cammie, were behind the goalkeeper and the player who's pressuring, so I can't see exactly how far that distance is. It looks like it gets really close, but does it at the, and at the moment that the ball goes by, is that player five meters away?

[01:40:29] It's hard to say. And then if they are closer than five meters away, or even if they're further than five meters away, Does the ball go by their head? Does it go by their shoulder? By their hip? Really difficult to say. Okay. So those are the things that we're gonna look for, but it's solely about the danger on the lift, not about anything the goalkeeper is doing, and I hope that helps.

[01:40:55] Um, let's see. Taco, what do you have to say? If the ball was scooped, that same trajectory, would you call it dangerous and using the kicker is safe? Yes. Yeah, the use of the kicker is not the dangerous thing. It's the propelling of the ball that I'm looking at. In this case, that player would have to be really close in order for the kicker to be the dangerous thing.

[01:41:17] I mean, remember, they're running around the pitch and they're swinging sticks at each other. So I mean, by that criterion, we would be calling way more passes and shots as dangerous uses of the stick, if that's the distance that we would be applying. And yes, the kicker is bigger, but sticks are harder. So, no, for me the, that's, that's not the problem.

[01:41:43] Um, but if the ball is scooped at that same trajectory, I don't, same as what I don't, I don't know what the comparison basis is. So there you go. Okay. Let's see if I can get to the poll result, just to see what y'all had to say. Definitive what? No, you can't do this. You can't just cancel out on me like that.

[01:42:09] Oh, okay. Forget this noise. I'm gonna go look here. I'm gonna do this so rude. It's so rude. I'm telling you.

[01:42:34] And I'm gonna view the results cuz I just, I need to know. So 12 votes and 83% of you said play on, huh? Huh? And I can, I can, I can see that. Oops. You can see that because it's totally blocking the view. But there you go. Um, let me put my camera on top cuz I'm, I'm blocked and nobody likes that. So yeah, 83% of you're okay with that.

[01:43:05] And so much of this depends on what we actually see. If that ball is any further to the left and closer to that player's body, we're, we're gonna have a much dim review of it, so I can completely understand. Yeah. But she, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because we're not gonna penalize somebody for attempting a skill that could not, could be less safe, but they pull it off.

[01:43:31] We don't penalize attempts at being good at something, we penalize actual danger. Sometimes people try stuff that they shouldn't and they. Totally pull it off. And we applaud when junior players are learning how to do tomahawks within reason. We're like, okay,

[01:43:55] we let them make mistakes because that's the only way you get better at stuff.

[01:44:03] Uh, Rachel, could you also argue that the other player on scene, what the goalkeeper was doing continued to run and potentially that is a possibility. So what Rachel's alluding to is whether the player is legitimately sort of trying to play the ball or does she just kind of come running at and with that stick position?

[01:44:22] That's a really good point, Rachel. Um, I'm not sure if that's really a solid attempt at the ball because she keeps it, if you watch her very carefully, she kind of keeps it at hipaa. Now if she's up there because that's where the ball gets blazed. Past her, we're we're more likely into a dangerous ball situation.

[01:44:44] Okay. So I don't know. And I try to make lots of fair points. That's why I'm here to make all the fairness to, to point the fair. Okay. Thank you all for playing along. We did go 15 minutes over time. I'm so sorry, but I really appreciate all of your contributions and I'm trying to cover as many of the really interesting things as they happen because next week they're gonna be more interesting things that happen.

[01:45:11] And then the week after that, I'm on holiday, so I had to get through all this stuff and I hope you're enjoying the faster pace. Feel free as soon as this live stream is over. And in fact, if you want right now, you could like pull the little toggle and you could go and you could go back to any section while we're live and you could go look at a thing again and see if my words make more sense the second time around, or if I'm.

[01:45:37] Still high. I don't know. You can, you'll have to decide that for yourself. Or as soon as this stream is concluded, you can watch on replay and you'll be able to skip around. We put chapter markers in all kinds of stuff to make this easier for you to go back to and have another look. So I'm concerned about how fast we go through things, but you guys seem to like it, so I'm trying it.

[01:45:58] And there you go. Uh, yes, the reminder about the match shirts, please don't forget because we are almost concluding the pre-sales, and it's really important because I wanna make sure that this is something that people actually like. People have asked for it, but I wanna make sure that people really, there's enough people to order this so the money is sitting in a little account.

[01:46:23] So I'm hoping that we get enough pre-orders that make this worthwhile because we do have to buy inventory for this stuff. It's, it's an investment. Okay, so go ahead and have a look at doing that and Taco, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it. Great fun. Okay, great fun. Tootle pip, another great sash.

[01:46:46] Excellent. And you'll see how many arrows you get. You'll have rolling balls. You'll have intentionally off the end line. You'll have, you know, was the free hit controlled. You'll have a few of those things. You might have some aerials. Your players are better than ours. And there's the link for the match shirts.

[01:47:05] Thank you so much everybody. Enjoy your hockey weekends. Whatever you manage to do. If you haven't been watching the Pro League, um, this is it for a season, so you might as well get a few games in, not because it's that much of an import of a competition, but it's a great opportunity to watch the best in the game.

[01:47:25] So go have a look. If you're part of yellow, you can watch the games with. Us hanging out in the discord, which is at fhm par.com/discord. Enjoy your rest of your days, evenings, mornings, whatever the case might be around the world, and we'll see you next week for the last one before holidays. Bye everybody.

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