Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 127

📅 Aug 23 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

We're halfway through #EHC2023 and we have SO much to cover! Dangerous shots at goal, because, obviously. Breakdown tackles and physicality galore, the ball hitting protective equipment, and is the end of goalkeepers moving early on penalty strokes?

We spend 90 min highlighting the most interesting and thought-provoking scenarios from 1800 min of hockey, but did we miss something? Come to the live stream and find out!

🚨 Sign up now and nail those big calls with Mission Critical Positioning!

00:00:00 Chair Dancing and Adventures in Muted Microphones
00:03:15 Topics!
00:04:05 Okay, I'm Unmuted Now
00:10:49 1. Dangerous Shots At Goal: ENGvGER VR for PC awarded
00:14:31 GERvENG: VR for dangerous shot on goal
00:32:19 ENGvSCO: VR for dangerous shot on goal
01:06:25 2. Breakdown Tackles: GERvWAL PC upgrade
01:21:42 3a. Ball Hitting Equipment: ENGvAUT Ball off hand or glove
01:26:04 3b. Ball Hitting Equipment: ENGvBEL PC for hitting loose knee guard

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

🟢🟡🔴 🏑

Transcript

01 Main Mic

[00:00:00] Okay. You can probably hear me now.

[00:04:24] And that says, Shure MV7. I had this problem last time, and I don't know what happened with, um, my audio settings. Hi,

[00:04:38] look, it wouldn't be a show if I didn't have some craziness. And I'm going to wait until I can hear whether this is working or not. Yep. Yeah, we're good now, but why, why doesn't this setting,

[00:05:05] I wonder if I just have to like recreate it or something because krisp microphone is coming in here, it's something to do with the Krisp microphone, but this means that you're not going to get any of the sound effects. So for all of you at home, I DJ air horn, especially when I see new folk. And I like new folk.

[00:05:25] So, um, you're just going to have to blow your own DJ air horns. And every time somebody subscribes or gives me a super chat or buys a course in the shop, a little widget's going to pop up and you're not going to hear the sounds, sorry, or maybe you will. I don't know. Sound effects. Why is it saying this?

[00:05:52] And you saw the topics. We're going to cover dangerous shots on goal breakdown tackles, uh, PC, ball hitting PC equipment, uh, stick and body blocks, and a goalkeeper leaving off the line. How did I remember that? I don't know, because we're also skipping six and seven. So, great to see you. Hey, JJ, great to see you in the live stream.

[00:06:13] JJ just joined the server the other day, so I would be tooting an air horn right now. And by tooting, I mean blowing. It doesn't sound very interesting when you say tooting. And it also isn't very coherent. Uh, special shout out to, uh, Boo and Simon. Hopefully, I am going to be seeing you guys out there, uh, on September 4th.

[00:06:35] So, get on the PDG about that because it's gonna happen. Uh, slightly out of sync. Oh, let's see what's happening. Um, somebody is sending me signals about… Uh, Lima, Charlie, about long corners, Harmut. It's good to see you. It's been a little while. So there we go. Thank you very much. See, this is a man who knows his role.

[00:06:59] When I make a polite request. He's there, he's all over it. There you go. Um, and who's, where's Kathy? I don't know. Uh, the sound effect on my logo came through. Yeah, I think, wait a minute, what is happening here? Why did that change? That was not my plan. I just looked over and saw that my mic had inadvertently changed to my mic, MacBook Pro microphone.

[00:07:30] And that probably didn't sound very good at all.

[00:07:40] With me, do it with me.

[00:07:45] I've been up since four and yeah, you, you caught it. You caught it. It's weird. Yeah. That's cause it was going into there and not into here.

[00:08:01] I didn't ask you to change anything.

[00:08:06] Yes, I just threatened my computer. Yep, absolutely right. Okay. We are good. I hope. I will try to keep more of an eye on things. Cause it just seems like one of those days where chaos will reign, but I'm glad you're here and I hope you've been enjoying the Euro coverage. It's been just fantastic as always.

[00:08:30] I think with the amount of experience that the production team is, is having over there, I think it's Southfields. If I'm wrong, sorry, everybody, but what I really enjoy, and you'll notice this in my clips, is that the production team is going back for a replay at the right time. And that could be a minute later and pulling out a replay, something that I want to see.

[00:08:56] It's like they know me. And I'm like, Oh, that's the replay I would have made, but it's so much better resolution because they zoom in and they show us a different angle. And I'm like, Ooh, yay. So that's always very good. Um, yeah, since I've already been up for eight and working straight for eight hours, yeah, that's, that's where it is.

[00:09:16] And Morrise is here. I did see him in the comments, so I'm glad y'all know each other. This is really cute. Cathy Kemp, DJ Airhorn, uh, uh, uh, wait, maybe I should try it just in case. No, it's not happening. I can tell in the sound levels. Dammit.

[00:09:41] Dammit.

[00:09:45] Anyway, Cathy, it's awesome you're here. This is going to be a bit of a baptism by fire, but I hope what you find is that you are getting engaged with conversation. You're hearing some key phrases, you're being entertained, and you're understanding our passion as umpires for wanting to do an amazing job when we're out there, because that's what we are all about, this FHumpires third team.

[00:10:08] So I'm glad you're here. And I hope you enjoy. And if we go too fast on stuff or we're too complicated, you'll catch up. I'm sure you're a very smart human being. Yes. Southfields on the production. Amazing. Amazing. And more DJ Airhorn. Okay, let's go. Let's go. What could possibly go wrong? She says, let's do this.

[00:10:34] Let's actually do this. Here it is. Oh, dangerous shots at goal. Okay, we're going to start off with this scenario, which is actually one of the more recent ones.

[00:11:04] Hey Raju, good to see you.

[00:11:14] Absolutely true. Okay, so one of the reasons I pulled this out is because what we have in this situation is a raised, unintentionally raised ball heading into the circle into two players who are in close proximity. And it is undoubtedly A ball that could present danger, but we're looking at several things in this.

[00:11:43] And we're looking at whether the player who could be in danger, now you can't endanger your own, uh, teammate, but only an opponent, whether they are actually in danger, so the legit, the evasive action needs to be legitimate, not just. Evasive. And so we're looking at that actuality. We're looking at the disadvantage that might occur because of that legitimate evasive action.

[00:12:10] And we're looking at the skill levels of the players. We're looking at how much space is in the area when things happen. We're looking at the proximity to the goal. We're looking at where that defender might've placed themselves and how much of the responsibility they are taking on through that positioning for blocking the goal.

[00:12:33] And trying to attempt to protect it as in a keeper, a goalkeeper scenario, instead of marking or defending a player out of possession and trying to dispossess them. Okay. So this was an, an interesting scenario, but clearly went through as a goal. And, but there were, there were questions at the moment. And the Irish defender certainly stopped here, uh, maybe wasn't sure exactly what was going to happen.

[00:13:07] Um, and what I remember very clearly from more of this replay that, uh, you're not going to be hearing, but, uh, Yanni Muller Veland is on comms on the color and she's saying, oh, I sure hope they're not going to take this back because for a highly decorated. German retired international player, not just cause her team scored, but for her, this looks like an amazing, amazing expression of skill.

[00:13:40] Okay. I'm going to just check into the comments here before we look in here. Hi, Chris. Good to have you. And Steven, do you think I'm setting them up for something? It's weird. It's like I'm taking a reasoned step by step approach, outlining principles as we work to a conclusion, but it's not really that.

[00:14:04] It's that I am trying to tell a story of what's happening in a tournament and be able to use these illustrations for ways that we can learn out of these principles. Okay.

[00:14:21] This is our next scenario. Germany, England.

[00:14:43] It well could be, Stijn, it could be,

[00:14:55] and Sean agrees.

[00:15:05] So what I'd like to hear from you as you're watching this scenario compared to the last one that we saw, what is different in this? Okay. What are the, what are the different facts situations? Because what I'm trying to do.

[00:15:24] Is show you by illustrating through these clips, all of the different things that we're going to calculate when we determine danger, especially when it comes to the circle and attempts at goal. Okay. So we have a situation where that went to video referral and it was ruled as being dangerous.

[00:15:54] Okay. And Steffan saying that that's great skill on that last one. Okay. So hopefully the, the lag between the comments and this is, you know, we're, we're now in the, in the current. Situation. So what are the things that are, you're seeing that are different here? And so Scott, the first difference was that, uh, it came off a deflection and not a hit.

[00:16:17] Okay.

[00:16:21] That's, that's one thing. I'm, I'm just going to sit on the comments and wait for you to tell me. Hey, Simon, um, you can argue there's more control in the injection shot on the German hit, but the English injection to the deflector was less controlled as the ball bobbled off the stick. Okay. I think one thing that we have to focus on, Simon, when we're trying to determine what dangerous play is, we have to isolate different aspects of a passage of play.

[00:16:49] So… The cross here is actually more controlled, you can argue. It's more safely, far safely executed than the scenario we just saw. There is no real rise to the ball. It's traveling through just about as much space. And it arrives then at the deflector stick who then attempts the shot at goal.

[00:17:19] You guys are writing lots of stuff. This is good. Chris, possible uncontrolled deflection with a defender, very close, uh, free hit defense, not the PC for Chris. And I think this is interesting because this came up in about the 204th comment of our 220 comment thread on this whole danger shots issue and the clip that we're about to see in a moment.

[00:17:47] The, the, the language under nine. What did you say it was, was it 9 11, uh, about controlled play. And what's interesting to me is that that is a word that probably is used in the wrong way in there because we don't penalize uncontrolled play that is safe. We just don't, we don't look at this and say, Oh, she didn't mean to do that.

[00:18:15] Like she didn't have control of that ball. It was super safe. Like nothing was wrong with it, but her skill just, you know, that just wasn't her jam. She's not capable of doing that on purpose. Therefore, we're going to call that uncontrolled. Like that's not, that's not what uncontrolled means. That's not what control means in the context of that rule.

[00:18:35] What it means is safe. It means dangerous and safe. And the fact that they used that word. Is, I believe, a flaw in drafting, not in, not, it's an unintentional flaw and mistake that actually leads us to the wrong result for the reason that I just stated. Sebastian, on the first clip, it's unintentionally raised ball towards an own player so no danger and the goal scored is skillful.

[00:19:02] And then for Daan, the first clip is raised outside the circle and one raised inside the circle. Yeah, I'm not sure if either of those make a difference because neither of them were shot at goal. Right? Neither of them could be deemed a shot at goal. Sorry. I have hair all over the back of my chair and it's driving me insane.

[00:19:21] Uh, I'm fine. Steven, goal A, you think the position of player A negates the potential for danger. So what I'm taking from that is that you think that the attacker is actually blocking the dangerous space. Plus it's coming at distance. Goal B, no chance to evade close proximity and marking a player, not the line.

[00:19:44] Right. So what you have is a defending player who is ball side of the player who she is marking. And she actually steps to close on the player, not to block space, not to block the goal, but to actually try to deflect the ball away from the, uh, from the attacker, Tess Howard, in the situation. And… So she is actively playing the ball and not playing in the goal.

[00:20:19] That deflection does hit the defending player on the knee, which is used not particularly in, it's not a firm rule in this particular scenario, because this isn't a drag flick on a PC, but we do use the knee as a guideline piece when somebody is hit on the knee or above in close proximity in five meters or less, we tend to say.

[00:20:45] That's probably dangerous unless the ball's going very slowly and the player makes no attempt to get out of the way and actually attempts to play it and just muffs it up. Or they've lowered their knee to the ground. Or there's a few other things that could mitigate that, that trend, that sort of guidance, that principle that we tend to apply.

[00:21:08] Um, whoo, there's a lot of comments here. Deflection doesn't mean that it can't be dangerous, of course. Yeah, but we tend to analyze it differently. Okay. I'm, I'm interested. Color me curious. Keep going. Uh, for staying the defenders within five, that's not a rule during open play. Exactly. So we're, we're on the same wavelength there.

[00:21:29] The defender knows where she is and what she can expect. An effort on goal, PC for you. Okay. And that's one of the sort of flip sides to the responsibility argument. And I can see that stain, but I think in this particular situation, because of what the player is trying to do, I mean, she, a player who's expecting shots at goal because they're close to the baseline, shouldn't have to then not mark a player or try to dispossess a player who is close to the baseline, just because that's close to the goal.

[00:22:05] And that would make it look like they're protecting the goal, right? Like we're not clearing out that area and saying, well, you chose to be there. That's where goals get. Or that's where shots get hit towards. So that takes the argument a little too far on the other, on the other tip. Right? For me. Oh, Kathy, I can't wait.

[00:22:26] Okay. William's, William's first though. Let's go with William. In the first scenario, the defender is in line with the hit, so there's no danger of her being struck. Well, there, there isn't, uh, in, you know, she, she's not first in line for that, but if there is some miscontrol by that attacking player, you know, she's flinching because she thinks.

[00:22:49] There's a good chance that that ball at that height is not going to be controlled by the player in front of her. But we still deem that action to be, no, you're okay. Like there's other things that you could do. You could step around. You could actually be marking ball side instead of wrong ball side on that.

[00:23:13] You could be actively. You know, stepping to one side or the other in order to try to intercept you. There's other things that can happen there, but just because danger could potentially happen, doesn't mean that the evasive action, we automatically say, well, that's legitimate because. There is the potential for danger.

[00:23:36] And I know I use that phrase very specifically because that is in the rule about danger, da danger or the potential for dangerous play. But just because something could happen doesn't mean it is happening. And when we say potential for dangerous play, that usually means there's a ball in the air, it's flying around, and before it gets to the point where people are going to do stupid shit under, sorry, stupid stuff under the ball, we call it down.

[00:24:05] Cause there was the potential for dangerous play. We could even call it an inevitability.

[00:24:13] Okay. Does the diving striker have an impact on the, uh, control? Ask Kathy. And I think part of it is, is, is I, I, I want us to think about this. I, this. It's just a really great way for us to get into this notion of control and realize that it might not be the most important thing to think about here.

[00:24:35] Because players at this level in particular do amazing things with their skills that we don't necessarily expect. If you saw Nick

[00:24:44] Banderak's goal a few nights ago it was ridiculous! And what I find interesting about that particular situation is… He is dropping to the ground, facing the ball and flailing at a ball that is coming, flying at him. And he scores an amazing goal and everybody goes, Oh my God, what skill. But in the next scenario, we don't look at it the same way.

[00:25:18] Hold that thought. I want to make sure I cover everybody. Second clip for Sean, no chance for the defender to get out of the way. She was very close and it was legitimate for her to be there. That's a nice little tidy. Summary. Defender in first clip is marking an attack, a second clip defender is defending goal.

[00:25:33] You think that, okay, and so let's just make sure that we're on the same page with this, because I don't think she is defending the goal. Because she's not, she is not hotline, she's not straight hotline from the ball to the goal, as in a shot on goal. As this ball is being crossed right here, and if we get to the part where she is…

[00:25:57] Okay, I have technology for this, and if I'm going to work this hard to get it all set up, I should actually use it.

[00:26:09] Where am I at? Oh,

[00:26:14] can I do it? Can I do it on the fly? Oh no, where's my video pencil?

[00:26:26] Okay. I want to see the behind the goal angle. Where is it? Here it is. Okay. Okay. Here, I, I, I understand what you're saying, Sebastian. It's not super totally clear cut, but. I think on the balance of probabilities, I would say is this, as the ball is about to be crossed, she is not defending the goal, she is marking that player.

[00:26:52] That's good marking position, I think. Decent marking position. Maybe she needs to be a little bit lower, but whatever. Okay, and as the play starts to… Move a little bit. As she sees that Howard is getting free and tips, she is trying not to save the goal, but she is stepping towards that attacker and trying to make a play on the ball, try to dispossess that attacker.

[00:27:19] So, I like that you're working through that, but I think this is one of those times that despite the fact that a defender is close to the goal, she's actually playing the players. Just because she's jumping between two because, you know, the marking has fallen apart doesn't mean that it's, it's bad. Okay.

[00:27:35] For some reason, I can't.

[00:27:41] Hi, Samantha. You were taught danger is danger. Okay. Let's see if this is going to work for us. Even when the shot of deflection is in goal. Oh, absolutely true. Yep. Danger is danger and a shot on goal doesn't. It isn't automatically not dangerous. Uh, safety comes first. Okay. And I mean, that's a nice principle, but things are a lot more complicated than just saying safety first.

[00:28:05] Cause if we go safety first, then we're going to apply a whole blanket over situations where we don't need to do that. And players will take advantage of extra protection we give them that is not warranted because they have a lot more skill than we believe, and they are willing to put their bodies on the line to stop.

[00:28:26] Hey, Innocent, good to see you in the second place within the Defenders Five. Uh, didn't give the defender enough time to get out of the way. Okay. I, there's no onus to, to give the defender time to get out of the way. So I think what you have to be careful of is when you talk, start talking about five meters and you're borrowing concepts from something like, I think what you're borrowing from is the aerial, uh, aerial ball reception.

[00:28:51] Don't take those concepts out of context and apply them to a situation where it doesn't. Exist. Okay. You got to the right result, but I'm very, very picky about thinking because I'm trying to set you up with principles that you can apply to every single situation and get to the right call. So work with me.

[00:29:12] This is not, this, this is not to, to correct or admonish. This is so that you have the tools that you need to get to the right stuff. Um, Mike McCartney, um, deflections are not expressly referenced. Yeah, because, cause deflections aren't passes. Okay. Flick or a scoop. Oh, sorry. Um, I, I'm going off on the wrong tangent myself.

[00:29:36] See. I got to catch myself before I got, I got to check myself before I wreck myself. Um, yes, deflections are not explicitly, expressly referenced. Mike McCartney is saying doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. And yes, that's explicitly there. Uh, shots of goal generally doo, doo, doo. Hi, Godders. Good to see you. Yep. And that's fine.

[00:30:01] He's looking for your defense. Okay. I want to get onto the next scenario because we're already at 1230 and this is the one that we're actually going to fight about. It's going to be a fight. Just kidding. Hi Mario. Um, should the first one now have been treated similar to an overhead? No, because it's not an overhead.

[00:30:21] That's easy. Not an overhead ball, not an aerial. It's not an intentionally raised aerial pass where the skill is intended to lift the ball over people's heads. So we don't apply that. People like to grab and generalize and put into places where it doesn't, it doesn't belong. How high percentage is the bar for deciding potential danger?

[00:30:46] Is it somewhere in the probability for scoring a goal or a penalty stroke? Nah, way too, way more complicated than that. So there you go. Um, Mike, and so that's the interesting part. So this is, this is your little, this is your little bugbear, your little point about controlled play. This is exceptionally controlled.

[00:31:06] This is fantastic control on a deflection and it's dangerous. So that isn't the core concept that doesn't help us determine what we would decide here. Because if we start looking at that, then we're like, oh, well, that's intentionally dangerous. And now we have to card the player for it. Like, no, that's not, no, that's not what's happening here.

[00:31:31] Um, if we think that German players, German defenders near the goal to man mark, player mark, yeah, we can just mark the player. Um, then she has every right to be there. Yep. Elseby, good to see you friend. Okay. And Ian's happy with the call. Good. Okay. So now everybody has got some principles in their mind.

[00:31:56] You're, you're, the muscles have been working. Steam's been coming out of your ears. You're all ready for this. Let's get to the coup de gras.

[00:32:12] And this is a poll question. So go ahead and head over to the Discord to give your input on this. Did, did you actually count if this was 220 comments and is there enough mate in the world to get me through this discussion?

[00:32:38] I don't think so.

[00:33:25] Okay.

[00:33:29] This isn't supposed to loop. This is supposed to go to the replay. All right. And JJ, I totally get it. Um, because most of us. There's a few of you out there watching who I have used video review. Hi friends. Good to see you. But for the huge, huge majority of us, we do not have the luxury of having extra eyes.

[00:33:52] So the point is not necessarily, I, I, we sometimes. I don't dwell too much on video referrals, and I'm very guilty of this because I find them fascinating because I'm a lawyer and I love to argue very fine technical details. And it's just so challenging and I just enjoy it. But it, I hope that when we do that, I can try to tie in the relevance to what we do on the pitch in our games where we don't have that kind of help.

[00:34:25] Um, there's actually three polls, so pick the one that's numbered one. Hopefully that's, is, is that,

[00:34:38] did I do that right?

[00:34:46] Because there's one, two, and three tying into, this is topic one. So this is the poll on topic one.

[00:34:57] How is there two? I didn't do that. Okay, don't vote on the second one and let me delete it. I'm sorry, William. I'm an ass

[00:35:12] for some reason. I can't delete it.

[00:35:26] Well, this is not going to help us get to the conclusion because y'all don't know. I think you can change your vote though. Can you do that? So if you voted on the second one, that is the repeat, take your vote off that and put your vote on the first one. There we go. I can see things. Hopefully are moving cause I'm going to ignore it.

[00:35:53] Okay. So take, take your vote off that second set there. Do, do, do this set, take it off. Okay. How did that happen? That's not me friends. I'm not take, I'm not, I'm not taking that one.

[00:36:17] Okay. I'm just making sure my sound was okay.

[00:36:27] Okay. So for Stefan, you think the defender is. Legitimately evading the ball, even in, even the attackers evading, don't care, don't care.

[00:36:40] I, this, this gets hard. This is why we've had 220 comments of argument in the server about it. Um, okay. The stick hit is not a controlled skill and it was fortunate it occurred free hit defense. We don't penalize fortune. We don't penalize things that are fluke accidents because we didn't penalize Nick Banderack, did we?

[00:37:09] If somebody had been around. In that case, and it was a 50 50, we don't go, oh, well, he wasn't controlled, right?

[00:37:26] I'm not sure what your original opinion is. I've been arguing so much with McCartney on this that I don't even know what anybody else thinks. Dirts, free hit defense, dirts. Hey, the distance of the players by the back post from the goal is big enough for this not to be in the danger category. Okay. So you're looking at the distance between the defender, sorry, the player of the back post from the shot that's off target.

[00:37:53] Okay. So what you're looking at, I'm going to put words in your mouth because this is an important part of the argument for some of us, so this is not. This is considered to be going wide of the target. So now we have a different, a higher threshold to meet for safety. Okay. Not because a shot on goal can't be dangerous, but because it's less likely to be dangerous because of the nature of what players are expecting.

[00:38:27] However, in the moment that the ball is traveling, is it dangerous to the defender? And if it is, what we are looking for legitimate evasive action. Um, the first phase of that ball as it's traveling towards the defender, and we're going to look at what she does.

[00:38:56] Okay. This is, this is going to be, camera, okay, fine. I'm going to go to this. While I sort out my, um, while I sort out my cameras. Such

[00:39:19] a failure. Why is everything so broken? There we go. Okay. So this is the ball is traveling across the circle. I'm not sure this could be it here, actually. Um, not super high contrast. But in this moment, I'm looking at this player's reaction and she is not legitimately evading at this point. Okay. The, this isn't an evasive action.

[00:39:52] She's got her stick in front of her body. She's willing and able and ready to play the ball. And that doesn't mean that it can't be dangerous if she's willing and able to play the ball. We're looking for all of the cues. We're going to weigh them all up and we're going to assess them. Okay. And then as it scrolls across, okay, things change at this point because of that deflection.

[00:40:29] And then the ball goes in the net. I'm going to scroll back because I want to see it from,

[00:40:39] I want to see it from the back angle. Okay. And angles are very important. When you look at this, it looks like those two players are right on top of each other, doesn't it? It looks like they're like, Whoa, they're going to hit each other with their sticks.

[00:40:57] But that isn't the case. Oh, I don't have the back view on this. That's not very helpful. I have, I cut out the result. That means it's not there. Raboo, you would say that the stick deflection from the England attacker is dangerous to Scottish defender, not necessarily changed for the shot itself. Oh, okay.

[00:41:17] And I think when we see the. The, the angle from the back, you're probably going to be less inclined to think that, but it's, it's a consideration. It's something to look for because yes, the use of the stick could be dangerous in and of itself. So good point. Um, if you blow this early for danger, unlikely to complain.

[00:41:40] If you hold the whistle as Ben does, well, it goes upstairs and we end up here. Yeah.

[00:41:52] Well, and, and in fairness, I'm sorry, I'm trying to process all of this. This is a new argument coming from you. And I mean, he's, he's ready for this and he's,

[00:42:08] and yes, he has his whistle, his mouth consciously holding it because a good umpire with play in their circle and the ball moving quickly is going to be ready. And if they need to blow their whistle quickly for danger, they're ready to do it. You don't think an instinctive flinch is a legitimate evasive action.

[00:42:29] Okay. Not sure about that. Not sure. Sorry. I'm not, this has been a very complicated argument to try to compute. Um, how are we doing on the poll? Do we have everybody there?

[00:42:48] Okay. Cause, cause nine people voted in the second, and I want to make sure that your opinions are weighted in the other one. So I have 13 votes, 13 votes people. Whereas the rest of y'all, how many of you are there? I don't even know how many, 39 people. Okay. If you're not in the server, I know that's hard, but you actually don't even have to be a registered.

[00:43:10] You don't even have to accept the rules to vote. You can literally just go to fhumpires.com/ds and you, as long as you have a discord account already, it's probably going to be a pain in the butt if you don't, but you can go there and you can vote. Sebastian, the defender has legitimate base action because the actions of the attacker next to her, not only, uh, singing a stick, but hitting the ball in an unexpected way, right in front of her face.

[00:43:49] Okay, I'm going to go to the result because I want you guys to see the other angle. In real time as an umpire you'd be calling danger, but you can see at this level with VR it'd be called a goal.

[00:44:07] I don't know if you saw the body language from the Scottish player asked for the referral, but she's like, eh, might as well.

[00:44:18] Not super confident.

[00:44:48] Can we say that in the video, the attackers were more of a buffer to the defenders so the defender wasn't a direct danger, versus in a video. Yep, we can absolutely say that. That is one of the factors. So you've done a good job in pulling that out. Here's the back view. Here's the back view. Okay. This'll give you a much better idea as to where the sticks are in relation to each other and how close the player is.

[00:45:12] And this is what I want you to look at, which I can't draw on right now, but I want you to look at where the defender has positioned. Themself, herself in this case. Okay.

[00:45:27] So, in that position, as the ball is being crossed, so she's, she's in marking position there, and then she moves back into the goal. Out of marking position. This is not, you are not going to be able to defend an international attacker in this position. Not a chance. You are literally putting yourself in line with trying to stop a ball from going into the goal instead of trying to stop the ball from going to the attacker or dispossessing the attacker.

[00:45:58] Okay? So that is not the only criterion. It's another thing to add to the pile of all the things that we're looking at.

[00:46:11] Okay. And so here to Sebastian's point, I don't think the attacker's stick is as close to the defender when you see it from this angle as it may have appeared in other angles.

[00:46:34] And the result of the ball, when we see it from here, here's another one, okay? When we look at it from this angle, now it looks like the attacker is very far from the defender. Angles are different. And that the contact with the ball, the head of the stick is high, but actually the contact with the ball is a lot lower.

[00:46:53] Then what we can see, and then the ball's just driven down into the ground very safely.

[00:47:08] Yeah, that's what marking is. You can't, if, if you're going to mark, you have to move with your attacker.

[00:47:26] So let's go back to the replay. So now that you've seen those back angles.

[00:47:36] Yeah, the defender just, because she's, she's not as experienced and it's just, it's just a defensive, look, I'm a defender and I don't look at that position going, oh yeah, that's going to be very, very effective. I would be looking at that going, I am going to get pasted with this ball because I am in the, I am blocking the space to the goal.

[00:47:57] Now I was blocking, I was marking her, but now she's beaten me to the ball. I have to keep moving. That's, that's just skill. Maurice, in any situation like this, what would the main criteria to be look for? Uh, there's no main criterion or main factor. There are a number of them. We're looking at the visibility of the ball as it's traveling towards these players.

[00:48:22] It actually goes through a pretty open lane. It's not cutting through a whole bunch of people. It would have been dangerous to somebody else prior to getting to them if it had been. So they can see the ball. What direction is the defender facing? She can see the ball, okay? She's got eyes on the ball. She can, she can see it.

[00:48:39] She's seeing it really nicely.

[00:48:46] We're looking at the pace of the ball. We're looking at the height of the ball. We're looking at where the defender has positioned themselves and whether that is a space where she is blocking the goal more than playing the player. Come on, give me some of the other ones. There's a whole list in the server.

[00:49:03] There's a whole list on the server. And you're more convinced of legitimate evasive action from this angle.

[00:49:12] And that's fine, Ribhu, that's absolutely fine. You might be considering goal now. And that's what I do is try to persuade. And for me, this was one of the most, this is one of the most 50 50 sort of Uh, decisions out there. And when Simon and, um, and I think it's Maddie, who's on with them say, this could have gone either way.

[00:49:40] I can see it either way. Yeah, we can. And the reason that I keep raising little points about

[00:49:53] watching this. As a fan, a participant, a human who is a woman in women's hockey, I get concerned when I see a trend of

[00:50:08] skill elements and happy accidents that would be celebrated and wouldn't even be questioned in the men's game, not being given the same treatment necessarily in the women's game. I am, I'm watching for patterns and because I watched so many games and so many plays, This, I'm triggered here. I'm triggered by this.

[00:50:34] The other thing, the other element that I look at is that the umpire on the pitch didn't feel it was dangerous. They didn't have the most beautiful view of it, but they had a decent view. And he's very experienced and he's a guy who knows what danger is in the circle. And actually he does have a really, he doesn't, he does, he has one angle on it.

[00:50:58] And in a different angle, it's going to look different, but he had a great view of the actual moment of contact and he didn't believe it was dangerous. So when it's 50 50, and you're not sure, and we don't have video referral, that's what we're looking at. When is it dangerous? See, that's, that's the question, right, Dennis?

[00:51:20] When is it dangerous? Because if the ball is going wide, At this point, you would need to see that defender being in the space where it could be dangerous to her. But as it's traveling wide of the goal, had there been no contact. It would have just been, Oh, 15 meter free hit because the defender wasn't in danger in that passage of the play.

[00:51:46] She flinched. She took her evasive action when contact was made by the stick because she didn't know where the ball was going to go. And she was standing in the way of the goal.

[00:52:02] I'm smacking the desk. I am my father right now. Oh my god. Hi Graeme, you were thinking how can it be dangerous? The defender isn't attempting to play the ball, safely played albeit a bit awkwardly. Yeah, by the forward into the goal, so no evasive action. I mean, there is evasive action, but is it legitimate?

[00:52:21] You know, that word legitimate is what we're really debating here.

[00:52:30] Uh, JJ, you want to say it's a goal because the ball was deflected off the England attacker and situations like this have happened before. It was much more dangerous than the goal was given. You hear you on Ben's experience, but he has the right to refuse. Uh, yeah. And how much shit did he get in when he did that the last time?

[00:52:50] And is this the hell he's going to die on in a four nothing game? In the fourth quarter with six minutes left, that was a hugely, hugely difficult move for him that had ramifications that are still being felt. So no, like, let's, let's be real here. That gets very difficult. Yeah, it wouldn't be an easy sell.

[00:53:20] Um, yeah, I liked the sense you meant it, that I interpreted it as before though. Okay. You meant it in the sense that the ball never got to the Scottish player. Can't be dangerous to the balls played. But yeah, I mean, that's, I, I think we're, we're saying the same thing just in different ways. The umpire on the field could overrule what the, I know.

[00:53:41] Yep. That's exactly right. Okay, so let's see what y'all said at the end of the day. Okay, hopefully this all made sense. And 72% of you agree that a free hit defense is the correct decision. And 28% of you, 72 and 28, 28% of you think that the goal should stand. And I think that I, I think it's a really good.

[00:54:13] It's a really good case study to work your brain. And I don't want to be, um, this is not to criticize the umpires who made the decision on the field or in the video booth. This is about expressing, going through all the factors, including some of the ones that maybe we need to acknowledge some implicit bias about, and I, I think it's valuable to work through the scenarios because work through these, all these scenarios, because now you've got all these.

[00:54:46] Oh my God, I'm going to look at the distance between, I'm going to look at the height of this. I'm going to look at where the stick flashes, as Sebastian pointed out. I'm going to look at whether the defender is, is, you know, ball side or is actually goal side, or I'm going to look at the speed of the ball.

[00:54:59] I'm going to look at all these things. And there isn't one thing that determines it. And a lot of people do ask me, Keely, like, what's the one thing I have to look for? And I'm like, the one thing is all the things, sorry. That's how it goes. Um, well, you can change your vote. I think you can change your vote.

[00:55:25] Okay. And Kazzy, that is another one of the factors that you're going to look at is the level of play. Absolutely. You would have given the goal at this level, lower levels, you would have called danger. Yeah, I would have too. If I was playing in that game, I sure want that call, but also I'm not sure if I deserve it, but I, I would be because I mean, just nobody has the skill.

[00:55:48] Nobody has the skill. Um, there you go. Durds, if the English school scores body language had been more positive to the deflection, it wouldn't be considered as danger, like in the first clip. I mean, that's interesting. And I think you've, you've got a point in, in how that reaction has biased us. Against, or has slanted us.

[00:56:12] I always try to be careful about using the B word. Has got us thinking that because it's accidental, that we sometimes, that we some have to have to penalize that. And I want to challenge that. I want to challenge that very, very hard. And we need to be thinking about this all the time, especially in the modern era, where we are.

[00:56:40] At many levels now, hopefully all the levels, we are umpiring both genders of, of play and both genders are involved. Okay. So that is analyzing things, thinking about them, being aware of them, studying them and moving forward is the only way we're going to get better with all that.

[00:57:07] Great talk. Great talk, friends. How did we do? How do we handle that? It,

[00:57:22] speaking of running out of time on VR. Okay. Um,

[00:57:31] announcements. It's just too much fun. It's too much fun to go through it all. Okay. Let me talk about the following things before we completely run out of time. Yeah, we're going to go late. I want to congratulate this human being. Wait, I have to congratulate this human being by turning on this scene and doing this.

[00:57:51] Shayne Macnee, um, hello, Hockey Manuwatu's club umpire of the year. I am so proud of this fine human being because Shayne is. Always showing up, even when it's a very inconvenient time down there in New Zealand. He's been working very hard for the last couple of years as a yellow member, getting his matches videoed, attending debriefs, participating in the discussions, pretending to work when clearly he's not, and paying more attention to.

[00:58:26] Umpiring things, and he has come along in leaps and bounds. So Shane, congratulations. Very proud of you. Well done, sir. Well done. Yay.

[00:58:42] I wanted to send flowers as I did on social media to Rachel Williams. Umpires who is one of, I got corrected because apparently back in 2015, uh, in a Fiji Samoa game, uh, the female umpires wore shorts. The FIH umpiring uniform policy has been, up until this point in time, to require women to wear skirts.

[00:59:08] And Rachel Williams was the first to, uh, follow, to exercise her choice under what I hope is a formal change of policy, um, in line with what started out as Tess Howard's initiative in line with her master's dissertation. And then also turned into a policy change by the FIH in very, very short order. I've never seen the FIH move so fast

[00:59:40] on a policy decision like that. That was pretty amazing. And I I'm really pleased to see that in general, the comments on. This, uh, post at the time on Facebook, 42 comments, um, and lots of positivity, lots of hearts, lots of strength. What I really loved was a lot of male, sorry, a lot of men umpires just saying congratulations.

[01:00:14] And power, and this is excellent. And hopefully this opens the doors for more inclusion and in areas of the world where women are also concerned about potentially, you know, wanting to, in order to adhere to their cultural standards, their religious standards, wear trousers on the pitch. And hopefully this opens the door for that as well.

[01:00:38] And I can't see why I wouldn't. And I really appreciated those comments. I just want to caution. And I just want to point out to all the guys out there, so many of you want to be great allies. You want to see more of your women colleagues participating as officials in all of the sports. You wonder why it is so hard.

[01:01:02] What are these mysterious forces? One of those mysterious forces is when you see news like this, the first thing that guys say is, Oh, when do we get to wear shorts?

[01:01:14] Just give us a week, give us a week where we get to celebrate something that isn't about just physical comfort. There is a physical comfort element for some women, but this is about psychological safety. This is about gender dynamics. This is about power structures. This is about so much more than just, is it cooler or warmer to wear a particular piece of clothing?

[01:01:45] So please stop taking. The focus away from what is being achieved here by asking if you can wear shorts. It'll happen. Okay. Be supportive.

[01:02:01] And then the last thing I want to share was this wonderful clip from this morning's game, please don't be mad EHF. I know it's not 24 hours.

[01:02:50] So what's really nice is, first of all, this was a moment that's caught on the actual broadcast. So I was able to capture it and bring it out. This is happening more and more, but in the past, our little ceremonies and things like that tend to get shunted off to the side and… But this is what is special.

[01:03:11] And if you didn't hear Simon just now indicating that there were 20 to 30 officials who were all lined up there, whoops, whoops, whoops, that there were all those officials there to celebrate Ben's achievement when you come back from an injury like Ben did. That is something that we can all celebrate because it is, he's our Sam Ward, you know?

[01:03:38] So congratulations Ben on your Golden Whistle. I hope it's not been changed somehow. Cause it just, they kept saying a hundred games and that's what the thing said. And,

[01:03:57] uh, and again, I don't know what's going on with that. That'll be very interesting. Kazzie, excellent goal. And one of the things that you can do to think about it is that it's about your journey and your performance going through that journey.

[01:04:15] If you perform, if your goals are to perform, then you will achieve that end result. But that is out of sight of your control, but your performance is entirely within yours. So I'm really glad that you're part of the community and we're, we're here. Yeah, that's probably the most emotional he gets on the pitch.

[01:04:35] Really great to, great to see. And Ribhu just, yeah, it, yeah, the FIH mandated skirts. All the time. So, and I mean, it's not that every woman, you know, now is going to not want to wear skirts when they umpire. I happen to be one of those women who's more comfortable because of my body type and how, how I operate.

[01:05:00] But what I really do appreciate is that it's not about me. It's not about my comfort and some other woman's comfort does not take away from my comfort. Just because Rachel's wearing shorts doesn't mean that I am less comfortable. She has done nothing to me. This is how I can support her and all the umpires like her who would like that choice because it provides them with more psychological comfort and safety and the ability to perform at their best and feel included.

[01:05:33] And for all the girls out there who were too scared to put on skirts. And continue playing because they were worried about their menstrual products falling out. And they were worried about being sexualized. And that is a real concern. And all those things, all those pressures. Sorry. See, now I'm, I'm ranting.

[01:05:55] It's wonderful. Yeah. Hopefully that was there. It was just, it's just kind of weird, kind of weird how they did that. Okay. Can we get to the second topic?

[01:06:11] Hi, we're going to, we're just going to breeze through some breakdown tackles really quickly because of course we are

[01:06:27] okay. I don't, I. Great. Let's just skip that one because I don't know what happened. I want you to see this one from the Germany Wales game. How did that broke? Breakdown tackle happens well back at the center line.

[01:06:58] Meanwhile, that breakdown tackle happened at about 7 49 on the clock.

[01:07:36] So there's, there's the breakdown and we are now more than 30 seconds in advance of the game. So I wanted to point that clip out to you as a really good example of when. You can keep playing some advantage and how that can work out.

[01:08:00] And if you heard what the commentators were saying at the time is that, Oh, Sean Edwards has given a nod. He is going to come back to it. Sean was able to show on the pitch to assure the player who was barreling out of him and probably about to yell at him. Like, why aren't you giving a card on that one?

[01:08:19] He's like, I got you. I got you. And that he was going to come back for that. Being able to communicate that way shows the empathy because you understand why a player might be worried and you're showing them, I'm here to protect you. I got your back. This is going, the message is going to be sent. The player is going to be sitting off.

[01:08:43] And by being communicative like that, it also lets the other team know. I mean, Arooz ran off the field cause he was hoping he wasn't going to get tagged. But it was very clear that that's who they were going to come back to. A lot of umpires are worried that an offending player who is, has a pending card is going to interfere with the play and do something else, even worse.

[01:09:07] Give yourself the opportunity to mitigate that by communicating. I'm coming back to you. Seven, see you in a couple of minutes or a few seconds or whatever it is. Uh, you want to know, JJ, why he didn't stop playing, go with the advantage. It gave him a disadvantage. I'm not sure what you mean by that because the, the player in question, I don't know why it's not, um, looping at this point.

[01:09:36] Here, I have to start it from the beginning again. Just play. Okay, so JJ, this is the tackle here and Schipperle has a huge open lane, not open, but he's got a huge lane in which to run in to produce something good. So playing the advantage to try to get him into the 23, potentially into the circle, that is really good umpiring.

[01:10:08] So I like that very much.

[01:10:13] Here's another, um, Breakdown play that's, that's a, that's very different and it's a bit complicated. And I'm absolutely going to pooch our time here.

[01:10:28] It was very messy in the moment. This is yes, England, Belgium. Where is the sound? I don't know. It's not been muted.

[01:10:45] There it is. Okay. So there's a possible third party obstruction at the outset when these players are running. Um, but as I'm looking at this play, I'm not buying it because I think as these players are going, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the line that the advancing attacker is running. Be juicy.

[01:11:17] Okay. That the advancing player is running. And there we go. I have pencils. I got my pencil. Okay. So this is the first interesting little collision at this point.

[01:11:39] I mean, my, my tendency would be to look at this and say, This attacking player has run a very clear, straight, non deviating line, and there are other ways for this defender to access the lane of the ball. Let's see if I can really roll this back very slowly. Okay, there is no change of direction here whatsoever, and he needs to get ahead of the ball.

[01:12:12] I consider that an obstruction first, and then this… Is simply a breakdown of play. He is in no position. He's not attempting to make a tackle. He's very reckless as to the result of creating this. And when you look back on where it happened. On the pitch, okay, look, we've got the 23 meter line pending, and it happens right in front of the 23.

[01:12:44] Kel ka wink a dink, as they say in La Belle Plovance,

[01:12:58] okay? So when you combine a couple of difficult decisions in the moment, it can be difficult to, to isolate down where a potential breakdown may occur. You want to make sure you're watching what the defender is doing and not what the attackers are doing in this moment. And where is their body position?

[01:13:21] Where are they attempting to actually make a solid tackle, or are they simply running into a line? In order to ensure that a foul gets called and their team can get back around into the play. Okay. So that's a bit of the first problem right there. That is not an attempt to get at a ball. That is an attempt to tag another player.

[01:13:52] And then,

[01:13:57] okay,

[01:14:55] Mara, I have a feeling that this pertains to the last one and JJ, it's okay if you don't think this stick was. Intentional, um, but a phrase you're going to hear me talk about a lot is reckless as to the result. We're not looking at the player saying, I'm looking to hurt this guy. I'm, it's whether that player has full control of their actions and the result of those actions stops the play with a foul from a low percentage of success.

[01:15:32] Position, okay? Reckless as to the result is what we're looking for. And if you run at a player with your stick up at your waist and you run into them, you may not be trying to hurt them, but you are definitely reckless as to their safety, right?

[01:15:54] So let's see, this is supposed to be, um, do, do, do, do, do. Video pencil is not over top yet.

[01:16:09] Here,

[01:16:18] these vowels can be very difficult. Because of the way that the player fell and a lot of the motion happened in front of the 23. And your challenge, your mission should you choose to accept it, is to determine here, whether the fouling action, the disadvantage, this is the contact. This is the contact of the stick with the player shins.

[01:16:50] And actually she does get quite a bit of the ball, but. We can still regard this part as being reckless and that player's being disadvantaged behind, behind the 23. I don't like inside and outside. I like, I like in front or behind the 23 because it's more clear language.

[01:17:21] Um, so only caught in the first foul. I'm not necessarily saying. Either way, I think the second was, was absolutely like, if you're not going to take the, the, the first one, the second one was worth it. So I think you can just kind of card that whole passage of play. And because of all of the things that happened, maybe you're looking at a, at a yellow because of the impact that it had in that moment and how danger it is.

[01:17:49] Hey, JJ. Dream participant. You just keep on going with your bad self and all your questions. I love it.

[01:18:01] Yellow card for the push and green card for the obstruction on the previous one.

[01:18:08] I'm not sure which is previous and that sort of thing. Hard for me to keep up because I'm trying to fly through now because we are already at 22 minutes after the hour. Okay. That might've been a poll. Did anybody, did anybody respond to this one? Let's see what happened.

[01:18:31] Okay. Cause this, this was for the last one. And. 100% of you, which is one of you,

[01:18:41] go ahead and have a look on that, even on replay and just sort of work your mind through that and see if you feel comfortable, okay. With where the foul occurs, where does the disadvantage occur? Not where is the player's body? Not necessarily where the ball is. It could be where the ball is. It could be where the body is.

[01:18:59] It is where is the disadvantage? Okay. That is where we determine the spot of the foul and therefore the penalty that needs to be applied in that moment. But very difficult. Okay. We're racing through, we're racing through. Do I have announcements? Yes, I do. I just have a couple more things that I want to make sure that I, I want to say a big shout out to Steve Cronin, who is our newest 13 green member and our new 13 green structure.

[01:19:31] Allows you to take advantage of watch parties, which are happening right now during Euros. So many watch parties. Y'all are tired of hearing me talk. So you can scan that QR code and get over to the webpage so you can see all of the things that are there. But Steve, a very, very warm welcome to you. And also our newest yellow member is Chris Pothier from, and I'm saying it the French way.

[01:19:58] You're, you're, you probably say Pothier. Or pothier, maybe, but I'm, I'm Canadian. So pothier, sorry, Chris, I'm so glad you're on board with the yellow program where we include the clip library and the watch parties and a whole bunch of mentorship. I'm pretty much in your face all season. That's kind of how it goes.

[01:20:21] You can provide video of your matches to me and I will brief them with you and with all of our friends inside the discord server so that we can all learn from the experience. It is group coaching and it's really, really fun. And I've heard it's good. Like the reviews are really positive. And I want to thank Steve and Rachel, William and Luke for all upgrading their memberships to the new level.

[01:20:44] You all mean so much to me. I appreciate your support. And you didn't have to do that, and it means a lot to me that you did. So thank you very much. Um, that was you. Good job. Good job. Let me see where we're at. Um, uh, LCB on the last one, a yellow card intentionally running into the player, no intent to play the ball.

[01:21:10] And you agree. Steve rang you. As you watch, he's joining green after he watched some stuff to catch up. I think he saw him with you dancing. Worth the price of admission. Right there. Oh my God. So funny. Of course it is. Oh, let's run through these. It'll just take a second. It'll be fine.

[01:21:39] England, Austria.

[01:22:19] Pause for effect.

[01:22:36] So two interesting things on that that I just want to point out is that no shade. Okay. The no shade rule is fully in effect all the time. But the question that went up to the video umpire was… Did the ball hit his glove? And the response was, it did hit his glove. So, you know, and the word glove was used.

[01:23:00] The problem with that, my friends, is that that isn't the language of the rule. And I'm not just going to be technical about it. So here, here's the language here. I can barely see it. It's not necessarily an offense if the ball hits the hand holding the stick. It is not an offense, actually, if the ball hits the hand holding the stick, but, but otherwise would have hit the stick.

[01:23:29] Okay. That is not the same thing as the glove. And I contacted one of my technical friends, David Alcock, who I interviewed on the show a couple of years back now, three years back now. Oh my God. David, we got to do that again sometime. And I asked him about the box because I said, so does the entire glove have to fit inside the box?

[01:23:53] Is that 290 millimeters, the, the maximum length of a glove? Because just imagine if you could wear a glove that went all the way like to your elbow and if the ball hits the glove, but up here, is that then legal? And when I took the, the measuring tape and I. I did my best and I went 290 millimeters. I went 29 centimeters up my arm.

[01:24:24] It's, it's like here. And I know I'm a wee, you know, I'm a wee short little gal, but up here. The intention of the rule as it's written is to make sure that we're not penalizing players for where they put their hands on their stick. They have to hold the stick. So we don't penalize them if the ball hits the hand.

[01:24:49] Where the stick is, but if it hits the body where the stick isn't, even if that area is protected, that is not the spirit of the rule. And so we shouldn't be extending that the glove protection to be there, if that makes any sense.

[01:25:11] Yeah, that would be weird. Don't the rules say, like Don, look them up. I did. As soon as it happened, I looked it up. Exactly.

[01:25:27] There you go. Okay. So I just wanted to pull that out for you because that is a, uh, a turn of language. That you might hear players using on you, but it hit my glove. Look, it hit my glove. My hand isn't broken. It hit my glove. It hit my glove up here, but that's your wrist. That's not the hand. And that's not part of the stick.

[01:25:55] Okay. The ball rolled up past the glove if you saw it correctly. Well, either way, either it rolled or it hit it directly. It doesn't matter. Um, and you felt it was a foul. Okay. This one is a lot harder.

[01:26:19] Is this a poll? Did I make this a poll?

[01:26:35] Yeah, I made this a poll.

[01:26:41] Okay. A hundred percent of you so far.

[01:26:52] So here, riddle me this. Sorry, I had to collect my thoughts and I'm like, how am I going to do this? Am I going to show the rule first? Am I going to, how am I going to do this? 916.

[01:27:05] So the rule, oh, I actually have the word highlighted accidentally on my screenshot, I didn't realize I'd done that. The rule says. That following a penalty corner, not during, following a penalty corner. If the ball hits any discarded equipment, such as a hand protector, knee pads, or face mask, a free hit should be awarded.

[01:27:30] If it occurs outside the circle and a penalty corner awarded, if it occurs inside the circle. Is a knee guard that falls out of one sock discarded?

[01:27:44] Given that so many times over the last couple of years, including at the last Euros, when it was called, I was told incorrectly, when a player dropped their stick inside the circle. And that was just considered part of the pitch because it wasn't a thrown object. It wasn't a thrown object as 9 16 requires.

[01:28:10] Because it wasn't thrown, it's just part of the pitch.

[01:28:19] So, should it have been a PC? Is anybody changing their mind? I've got one play on.

[01:28:34] I love it.

[01:28:39] Yes, it does hit equipment, but is that what the rule says? And disadvantage play. So I had a conversation with, uh, one of the umpire managers. And, um, I asked if they could help me with my thoughts, cause I thought maybe I was on drugs because I was like, I don't think that's right. And I worked through it with them and they said, yeah, the rule is not.

[01:29:10] Written, you know, airtight, that that is definitely a potential that, that, that is sort of a, a loophole that is an area for confusion. And to me, what we're talking about is the ability for players to be held responsible for their conscious, deliberate actions of removing their protective equipment and getting it away from the pitch in a safe manner, not hitting the umpire in the face, that is their responsibility.

[01:29:44] If the penalty corner equipment that is designed to keep them safe under these trying times… Isn't designed well enough to stay on them, and I'm, I mean, I, I'm seeing knee guards falling off every time, it feels like. Okay, I'm gonna throw out 50% of the time knee guards are falling out. Are we saying that players can't wear knee guards?

[01:30:11] because they may fall off, may cause a disadvantage penalty corners are rewarded. Are we saying that players have to run differently and more slowly because otherwise they can't keep the knee guards on? I don't think that's within the spirit of the rules. So when you have an ambiguity like we do with the way that the rules are currently worded, I, Try to go back to the spirit and we have the spirit of safety.

[01:30:37] We have the spirit of penalizing actions that are within the player's control. Not intentional actions within the player's control, and they can't control that. They are not trying to just lightly. Do up those knee guards and hope they fall off so that they block the ball. They want to protect their knees.

[01:31:07] And Alistair, that, that is the other point that I find interesting because this is the other part that makes me believe that this rule does not apply to knee guards because one removes their equipment after the penalty corner is over, not when you're running out to the top of the circle to defend a drag flip.

[01:31:29] That is not, that is the, the quarter has barely even begun. So that's why I don't feel that this clause. Applies, not injustice. It doesn't literally apply. You can't, you can't construe the words directly to apply to the situation.

[01:31:59] Okay. So you've, you've asked the question that I've just sort of, you know, responded to and worked through. And maybe you don't agree with, you know, my assessment and maybe you do. I'm, I'm, I try to be empathetic towards players as much as I can. I don't know if I do a good job of it, but you'd argue that following should also mean doing.

[01:32:22] Because why would you call a PC during open play right after a PC's ended? Not call a PC during a set play that's meant to be a scoring opportunity.

[01:32:36] Okay. Yep. That's, that's another, another way to look at it for sure. And we still have the question about discarding. If you look up the dictionary definition of discarding, something to… What do we have? One, two, one, two. I'm trying to, I'm trying to see what I can sneak in here. I mean, we don't have a hard stop, but how much time do you really…

[01:33:01] Want to spend. Blocking with stick and body. I want to do this. Oops. This.

[01:33:16] The audio's gone again?

[01:33:26] Can you hear me at this moment? I should have sound. Okay, I wonder if that scene was muted. Let's try this again. Okay, we're going into blocking.

[01:33:46] This is interesting. Different microphone.

[01:33:51] Should still be the MV7. This scene does not want to play.

[01:34:00] At all.

[01:34:04] It's just like, nope. Zero bid on playing. Let's try this one.

[01:34:17] I am having some problems with, uh, Ecamm. It's not playing the scenes.

[01:34:29] Maybe that's a sign. Maybe that's a sign. To me. This scene seems to be fine. I can see it advancing.

[01:34:45] I'm gonna try this one more time.

[01:34:50] What about the rule 12 4?

[01:35:01] Let's see if I can go back to 12 4.

[01:35:08] Rules. Rules.

[01:35:19] Okay. Great question, Mario. So, Mario asked, what about rule 12 4? Because that says, If a ball hits a piece of equipment lying in a circle and a probable goal is prevented, a penalty stroke may be awarded. Was a probable goal prevented? So no penalty stroke can be awarded. It doesn't say that if a ball hits a piece of equipment in the circle and a probable goal isn't prevented, then the remedy should be a penalty corner.

[01:35:50] It's open. And it really should say that, if that's what it means.

[01:35:59] So, it's a great one to highlight, Mario. It's great. And I should have actually added it, because I did think about it, but… Okay, let's see if I can do this.

[01:36:20] You know, friends, this is… Something is broken in Ecamm.

[01:36:29] Because it will not play any video any longer.

[01:36:35] Let's see what happens if I unclog my video memory.

[01:36:50] Let's try this again.

[01:36:56] Sorry, friends, I don't know what is happening with this, but I had some really good clips on, um, a stick shield, which was… Interesting. And a body shield, which was interesting, that the commentators at first were like, we don't get it! And then they were like, oh, actually really good call. And then I was gonna show a video referral on a goalkeeper, Vincent Van Asch, my favorite, leaving the line early, cheetah pants, and getting, and Nick Bandrack taking the referral, and him being shown to clearly have left the line prior.

[01:37:39] And this was something that I banked on about after the men's world cup, because there were a few instances of Not just him, but I think Pyramid Black did it too, leaving early and getting away with it, but hey, life happens, and I'm wondering if this is the, this is the, the, the sea change here coming about, which I'm just in favor of good skill and good play.

[01:38:11] That's what I really want to see. Okay. So friends, um, I'm, I'll figure out what I'm going to do with those clips. If I'm going to show them later or show, try to show them in the server or do something else, who knows? We have playoffs starting tomorrow. Playoffs. Do we call them? You guys call them playoffs.

[01:38:33] I felt very North American there. That was very Canadian. We're starting with our first seven game series. Good old Canada hockey game. And that is on the, um, the women's side and. And then we are moving forward, so I will get those watch parties scheduled. It's gonna be a good time, y'all. Very, very good times to be had.

[01:39:00] So if you haven't joined the server, if you haven't joined, at least FHU3T Green. Give it a think. I'm in the server to answer all your questions. There's lots of other people that are very good at answering questions better than me, especially in the mental state that I'm in right now. And we can get things together.

[01:39:18] And if you just want to hang out with the fam and with the team and get to know people, we're really cool about that too. So we've got all that. You're very welcome friends. Semi finals are here, absolutely. Guten nacht. Airport bound first thing, yes. Mike's going to Euros. I am so jealous. Have a good day, everybody.

[01:39:43] Thanks for joining in. Enjoy your hockey.

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