Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 121

📅 June 14 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

Did you know video referrals can be controversial? Let's uncover this amazing fact together. And what directions should be taken into account for the ball travelling 5m before entering the circle on a free hit? We've got sliding players, shepherding the ball off the end line, remedies for time-wasting, and so much more.

We're jamming so much value into this 90 min you'll wonder you did with your Wed night/arvo/Thu morning before The Longest Running Umpiring Live Stream On YouTube™!*

*local results may vary

🔗 Links:
Hamish's Scotland U18 Fundraiser
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⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00 Chair Dancing
04:31 Topics!
05:11 1. VR For Obstruction Before Goal
38:14 2. Sliding Challenges
59:51 3. Shepherding the Ball Off End Line
01:13:42 4. VU Advice Not Taken
01:27:44 5. Dealing With Time-Wasting

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

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Transcript

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[00:02:43] What Up Wednesday?

[00:02:49] Let's, let me just get it out because I don't know what to say and I don't even know why I'm emotional about it, but for all of you who were thinking about the three people who were killed and Nottingham, and especially a member of the hockey family, Grace. Um, sometimes these things trip our wires and we've been hopping over them for some time and, and it's hard.

[00:03:26] Reach out to people around you, talk about it, find resources, and it's okay to process it in your way. Okay, good. Um, let's get on with our topics today.

[00:03:51] Topics we are gonna talk about. This is not the right screen. No, no, no, no, no. These are not the correct topics. I tested every single thing today. I, I just look, let's just get it out there. I did all the testing, I did all the things. Today was gonna be the day. Now I'm worried that everything else in the stream is gonna be, uh, messed up.

[00:04:19] So I'm, I'm not go, I'm not going down without a fight, friends. I'm not doing it. Let's try this again.

[00:04:32] Here we go. What is traveling five meters in any direction? We're gonna look at a couple sliding challenges. We are gonna talk about shepherding the ball off the end line. We are gonna talk about video umpire, advice not taken, dealing with time wasting aerial infringement advantage. And who knows, we might get into extra time because, We got a new, a new, a new thing going here.

[00:05:01] A new, a new snappier system. So let's see how this works out and please be ready with the new stuff if my, if e cam rode over my scenes. Okay, here we go. What is five meters traveling in any direction? Alright, friends, this is from China and Netherlands as you can see

[00:05:27] some support right back onto that. Very difficult for

[00:05:38] you. Got a little bit of a lead up cuz I just want you to see all this. No food for me. A lot of decisions all at once. No, she's running away. She's running away. Right. Our vote goes to the air with the 3D skills and China send it upstairs. Eh, China is saying that the balls not traveled five meters before the penalty corner.

[00:06:02] If you can have a look please. We got the dotted line. If there is a foot after that, she's going foot from, where does she take it from? Right. She's inside of five. So that's definitely not being carried by. No, she's, she started it inside the dotted light. Can you play it again, just to be sure? Yeah. It was fairly clear.

[00:06:22] Yeah. That is inside the dotted light and that is not carried fire. Yeah. Or how about the vertical? It's all good. How about the vertical? Does that make up for the, there is no clear reason to change your decision. The PC stands and China lose the referral. Wow. Okay. Happy to look at a poll on this one if you want to talk about it, but the reason that I'm.

[00:06:47] Going through this one is, first of all, I did get a lot of questions from people, uh, as to what it meant, but it raised a very interesting question for me. So I'm probably gonna talk about the things about this play that you're not expecting. I'm not really gonna talk much about where I thought the free hit was taken from and whether it was five meters, because I think these are, this is just one of those instances where what we understand and what clearly looks to be five meters maybe was just made a bit more complicated in the moment with one of the, one of the things about these five meter dotted hashes that go around the circle is that it isn't a continuous line, and sometimes we can lose sight of where that line curls around and curls into.

[00:07:39] So I think for me, the ball does start within the five meter hash, so it. By plain observation, it appears that it doesn't go five before it goes into the circle. And that really isn't the important thing here because we're talking about how we're gonna process instances when we're on the pitch ourselves later on, uh, in the future, later on in the future.

[00:08:12] Look, I, I can't help you here. I gotta turn on my music. I'm definitely in one of those, those days I need music to, to help me out here. So what the interesting question, one of the interesting questions this raised for me was what exactly, I don't know why this isn't looping. Let's try this again. Sorry.

[00:08:41] Let me go back to this so I can get this back. So it's very interesting to think about whether the five meters tra of the ball traveling is in any direction. Let's look at the actual wording of the rule though before we get to far on this, on this little pathway here, because it's not just that it's in any direction, but there is this notion that the ball is, can't travel in or can't travel, not necessarily in a single direction.

[00:09:23] If you wanted to find the most way of dealing with this, well, I think we found it, and that is the way that the word the, the rule is worded right now. So just looking at it right here. So where is it? There you go. Um, not necessarily in any single direction, and that's right at the top in subsection F. Not necessarily in a single direction.

[00:09:52] It doesn't say that the direction has to be on the turf. It doesn't say that there can be two directions accounted for 3, 4, 5. What we have realized since this whole rule came into play several years ago is that we had to be mathematicians as we're umpiring and try to count up all of different ways that the ball was traveling and add all those numbers together to get to a point.

[00:10:24] One of the ways that we realized that we could, um, help ourselves out was to. Count the steps that a player takes, cuz generally players will be stepping as they're moving the ball in order to actually move the player at many levels. And it's, it's really tough to stand still and then move the ball, one side of the body, one, uh, another side of the body and, you know, be able to get to do anything.

[00:10:52] Generally the player will move with the, with the ball.

[00:11:00] But as we started dive through this, I had a really interesting conversation with a, a few coaches actually over the last few years, and I think it was, I think it was Mark Eggington who coaches at Dartmouth, uh, in the US in NCAA hockey. And he asked me the question, what would happen if a player took a free hit?

[00:11:26] Inside the circle, or I mean anywhere in the pitch, but, but definitely, sorry, not inside the circle, inside the 23 and scooped the ball up, played it up in the air and it went two and a half meters up or from the ground. It went two and a half meters, came back down to the ground two and a half meters, and then was played from that spot into the circle.

[00:11:50] Would an umpire consider that to be five meters? Fascinating question. Holy smokes. Like so much fun. I don't usually like hypotheticals, but I like this one because it helped me get back to the purpose of the rule and. I, I'm always trying to keep that in mind and go through the process. We've talked about the, the actual wording of the rule, but why do we have this rule in place?

[00:12:21] Why do we want the ball to travel this way? Now? There's no magic behind actually moving the ball in a certain way. It's not like the ball, um, all of a sudden levels up and it turns orange and, and then the barrier around the, the circle falls and an orange ball's allowed to go through. It's not like anything like a video game like that.

[00:12:42] What it is, is that five meters of ball travel allows defenders time to get into position, to defend the ball, to approach the ball in order to attempt, to tackle, to get themselves in a spot where they are not simply fair game, not unfair game at having the ball shelled at them. From what we consider to be right at the edge of a close distance, an outdoor, a close distance is considered five meters because we use that as our distance from which a free hit can be taken away from where, uh, the ball can hit the runner on a penalty corner, whether it's above or below the knee.

[00:13:29] Five meters is that distance. We have five meter markers all over the place because five meters is just this number. That seems to work for all levels of play because as you move to the higher levels and the players move faster, the ball is moving faster. All the relative things all like coincide all Matthew and it all works out that way.

[00:13:48] Okay, so the question to me then comes to when the ball is not being moved on the horizontal surface, but moved vertically. Do we still have the conditions of the ball moving long enough? Not far enough, but long enough for the defenders to get themselves in safe positions. So when eggs asked me that question about the ball, you know, getting scooped up into the air, two and a half meters and down, I thought, yeah, why wouldn't that count?

[00:14:30] Because that's slow as hell. If, if I were a defender and, and I mean, I was like, okay, what, what would it be like to play with this? Let's apply our hockey brains and our hockey hearts and if, if the ball. Moves up that way and then falls down to the ground. How fast is that going? Is that going faster than it could go on the ground?

[00:14:51] Probably not. It's actually probably moving more slowly because you've got the resistance and yes, gravity will take it back down, but compared to when it's on the plane of the turf, it's like, no. I mean as soon as you start getting into the air, you start adding drag and slowness and I don't know, physics, like somebody explained it to me in the comments, but I just, my common sensical brain is, is telling me that this is the case.

[00:15:20] But in this particular situation, with the manner of the 3D skills that are being used, does that same thing really apply? And why doesn't it? So when I'm looking at this situation, the ball. Although it is raised into the air, it, it isn't raised it's rad raised forward into the air. So there's, there's a, there is a lateral movement of the ball at the same time.

[00:15:48] Does that equate to the extra 50 centimeters that is required in order for this self pass to travel five meters before it gets into the circle? I don't know. And that may be, well, what was taken to account in this instance, that extra lift off the ground and the extra distance that that took, slowed the ball down enough that the equivalent time was still five meters of time.

[00:16:27] Does that make sense? I'm gonna go to comments now because I'd love to hear. What you all make out from this crazy ass theory that I have. But it's important for us to, to go through this because this is now, this is gonna be parts of our games, okay? This is gonna happen to us, and we have to figure out as a community, pardon me, how we're gonna deal with that.

[00:16:51] Okay? So let's see where we are. Uh, thank you all for your comments. Um, about my, um, my intro. Milford sent me, sent me off. I'm just saying he, his little message there, I was like, damn it. Now I'm gonna cry. Okay? Um, yes, here's time for our lessons. Geometry. Good to see you. T um, 2d. It's not five meters, but 3d.

[00:17:17] It is. Yeah, that's the problem. It, it could be, I mean, I'm not, I'm not good at this. This is not my, this is not my wheelhouse of wheels. I don't, I, I'm not sure. If I, if I go to this, oh, you know what, we're just, we're just gonna have a little bit of a, a moment here.

[00:17:43] Hmm.

[00:17:51] Yeah.

[00:17:56] Hi.

[00:18:03] I can see why people don't even bother to really prepare sometimes for live streams, cuz it doesn't matter. It doesn't help. Something's gonna go wrong.

[00:18:17] Let's see if I fixed it now. There it is. Okay. So if I scroll this through, Okay, here's our starting point. This is where the free hit is taken from right here. Okay. So if we very, very slowly, I don't know how, how much more slowly I can do this. Okay. Ball is taken and now it's moving up. It's being carried.

[00:18:47] Carried, carried. Okay. By that point, has that extra distance moving up that way, has that made, has that made the difference? Maybe if I could just pause it right here and clear this, cuz, cuz basically it's this. So does this extra elevation add up to, because this is the edge where her feet are, her feet start at the five meter.

[00:19:24] Line as near as I can estimate. Okay. That looks very much like that's where the, the, the last hash would be if there was a hash there, there should be a hash there. I think that'd be very helpful.

[00:19:40] Okay. So we're only talking about 50, 75 centimeters there. I don't think it's a full meter. If it is a full meter, then what we need to start adding up is like all this. Hmm.

[00:20:02] As the attacking player, put the ball on defender stick just outside the D

[00:20:10] It's an interesting thought. Let's have a look.

[00:20:17] Can I zoom in? Oh my god, I can zoom in with this app. This app is so cool. I can tell you more about this app later. Oh, well that doesn't help. Don't do that.

[00:20:35] No, there's the ball there. There's the stick. I'm good at drawing. And I think the Chinese player intentionally moves her stick outta the way, or at least behind what she perceives to be the plane of the circle moving up and extending through the air. What do you think? Am I on drugs? Do I have that right?

[00:21:05] Could you argue the length of trajectory of the ball can be calculated in 3D space?

[00:21:13] I know it is. It is. Well, and I mean, Mike, to be completely fair, it wasn't like I predicted this. I had coaches come to me with this question. So it is really worthwhile friends to have great conversations with great coaches because they are the ones along with the players, they are gonna push the envelope and they're gonna push us in our understanding and the way that we interpret the rules.

[00:21:37] And we have to take the time to think about them because there's a body out there that moves a little more slowly than this, and when they move fast, they tend to get it wrong. So we don't want them moving too fast, but we have to understand how we would interpret this situation.

[00:21:59] Um, and when the,

[00:22:07] and that's true when the, when the free hit was taken, the Chinese defender wasn't a complete five meters away. So on those grounds, that can be a penalty corner if we're gonna be very precise about it. You're absolutely right. This is difficult. This is a, a, a really difficult decision and we had a conversation, one of the watch parties about how great it was that some of the umpire, the video umpires this weekend, they, a few people really noticed in particular, uh, Sarah was doing this quite a bit, where she was explaining a bit more about her rationale about a particular decision.

[00:22:46] And that really is helpful. Like that really does make things easier for us at home to comprehend what they're thinking. So in this case, if Celine had said, you can stick with you, you can say the Chinese defender was not five meters away when the free hit was taken, and therefore stick with your original decision.

[00:23:11] But we don't have that coming outta Celine's brain. So Simon, you, you may have cracked the case, but I wanted to go through the, the machinations. Not sure if PC would be the result of not five meters. So play on and then outcome of play pc, maybe not so sure about that. Dutchie. Mcda, it's been a while. Good to see you friend.

[00:23:34] Let's bring your legal brain into this. According to the Lord of the rule, the player has to play. So touch the ball after the ball has traveled five meters. Also, Kish, she's within the five meter dash. So free Hit defense. Yep. And that is, Very well could be there. Also, the Dutch attacker plays the ball into the D from a short distance that's out G instead of dribbling.

[00:24:01] I'm not sure what that means. You were, you were on a roll. Let's, we'll just, we'll just take that one off the broadcast.

[00:24:12] As the wolf wanders. As the crow flies. I think you got that the other way around is isn't it? As the crow flies. Doesn't that take all that into, I've never heard the wolf wandering. Steven. That's very interesting. Yep. There you go. Anique. But she plays it in meter before it enters the circle. So that is a meter less.

[00:24:38] Hmm.

[00:24:46] Let me see if I understand what you mean. No, I, I, I.

[00:24:53] She brings the ball into position from off the field, and that is the spot at which the free hit is taken from, from what I can interpret.

[00:25:09] So if we do this,

[00:25:13] okay, and the, the fun part is, is that the attacker, if she had taken it where the foot actually happened, then we wouldn't have had any of this because the foot actually happens.

[00:25:31] Okay? So Anique, the way that I view it, that's the touch that says I am gonna start to play the free hit from here. So that is inside the five meter dash. Okay. But the foot actually happens here.

[00:25:51] Could have been a lot easier.

[00:25:58] I, I think elementary maths are beyond me some days. So what do you think? Like a crow or wolf, maybe the wolf, the direction hockey has gone along. The tangent from the circle to the dash line is the bottom of the triangle. The hippo news have not traveled directly on, the tangent will be over more than five meters.

[00:26:17] Well, it could be over four meters it, or over more than five meters. It is something which, or is it, is that what you're telling me? Do I not understand mouses then hide ads. Yeah. Length of the financial memory.

[00:26:35] Yeah. At the same time. As we discovered, John, that the foot is actually like, that's not exactly where the free hit was taken. So the Chinese defender at this, at where she lined up, she was actually, she would've been five meters away from where the free hit needed to be taken. Okay. But these are good points.

[00:26:58] Over five meters going up and down, add something like four meters to the distance and 40 centimeters could be enough. I don't know what Simon Milford says. Okay. It's been really useful having the VU to give more info, says Luke. Yep. And I, yeah, I'm, I'm not sure how much the players are taking all that in, but I think it's certainly illustrative for the fans.

[00:27:24] And then if the teams look at the production video as well as their tower video, It could help them out quite a bit afterwards. I'm, I'm really not sure how much the teams, I, I, I think players review those things a lot more. See where the ball leaves the attackers stick before it goes into the D.

[00:27:47] Yeah. And I mean, if, if we start getting into, does the stick have to be in contact with the ball the full-time in order for it to that count as travel, we don't get like that. So if a player is dribbling by tapping the ball and then letting it roll and then taps the ball again and lets it roll like that, cumulation is all counted as playing the ball.

[00:28:13] So we're not looking for a full contact. Okay. But is the attacker attacking player disadvantaged by that Chinese player backs up outside the five meters when the attacker approaches that? That's the other interesting part too, is because it's a very, very small. You know, infringement. So it's tough to know.

[00:28:37] Tsk the first defense before the ball's played in the day for the moment the free hit was taken was China not being five meters. He says. So it's a PCL day for you. Okay. Hey Shayne, good to see you. Okay. The other thing that I wanted to point out and, and, and this is good and I think, you know, we're in a situation now where we can, I think, agree that this might be something that we have to take into account is to be drawing triangles and maybe we need to do a math class and start talking about, pardon me, hell we're gonna add vertical 3D play onto the distance that the ball travels.

[00:29:16] Cuz that does take more time, that does cause the defenders to have more time in order to do the things that keep them safe and allow them, you know, their, their stuff. William, you said PC to start, but actually watching the last attack or touch is quite far outside the circle. So probably not quite five meters travels before the before that touch.

[00:29:44] Very interesting. Okay. But the last thing I I, I want you to sort of keep in mind here I'm go, I'm gonna go back to this part of the replay and then just sort of turn the volume way down is when we are in this situation here and we have the ball in our corner and we are very close to it, and there's a lot of players who are talking to us and saying, Hey, hey, hey.

[00:30:10] And there's a lot of potential fouls. We've got all these little niggly things to try to take into account. Oh, was that disadvantageous? Was that dangerous? Was that a stick obstruction? Was that a block? Blah, blah, blah. We've got all these decisions. When the players are asking us questions, we have to ignore them because in the moment that that free hit is taken.

[00:30:32] Sarah here is in the process of explaining why she just made the call outside, and I think that takes her away, takes away her ability to then address the attacker. And get the ball placed where it needs to be placed and to know exactly where the five meters is and know exactly how this thing needs to go.

[00:30:57] The proactivity is gone. So a real theme that I noticed this weekend and something that I think we can really focus on in our matches is when is it appropriate for us to respond to player comments? And I don't mean appropriate from the sense of manners. I'm talking about our ability to umpire well, because if we're too busy living in the past explaining something that we've already called and that causes us to make a mistake, which this may or may not like, I'm not saying it was, but.

[00:31:30] If we aren't reading into the future, if we're not giving the players the information they need for the next thing so that the next thing happens better, that next foul doesn't occur, our next mistake doesn't happen. We are, we need to be proactive and pre preventative for all those things. All right, let's look at the two minute warning and see what we've got for, and that is Fred, get outta the way.

[00:32:02] No, Fred, I don't wanna ask you a question. And what I wanna do is get this poll finalized. I'll be there in a sec. I thought I was gonna have it.

[00:32:18] New system. Okay. Poll is ended.

[00:32:28] This is gonna take up most of our.

[00:32:33] Okay. How did it do? Did it show up there? Nope. Nope.

[00:32:39] There. Okay. That's the best I can do. 47% are sticking with the pc. Play on for 28% of you a free hit out for 23% and I'd love to hear, you know, in one minute if your free out for the de for the defense is because of the ball placement of where the attacker took the free hit. That would be very interesting.

[00:33:01] And yeah, that's what it kind of looks like to me. A lot of that stuff, who knows? Uh, you're happy that the dribble counts as playing the ball, but the point at which you played the ball into the D was at some distance outside the d

[00:33:21] watching in slow mo. It looks like the last touche is before the ball is traveled. Five meters. So free hit defense. Okay. Um, no, you can't be devil's advocate here. What we need are good arguments. So if you have a good argument, what did this player continue into the circle and scored a goal? Are you gonna let this que Well, it, that's not a devil's advocate question.

[00:33:40] That is a hypothetical and I don't care because what we're trying to do is answer the question as to what we're doing in that particular moment. Because whether we call a PC or whether we call a free hit out because something else happened, like all of those things need to be accounted for.

[00:34:11] Uh, yep. I think John, what you're saying there is true. Hi, be Gregory. Be awesome. Thanks for coming. Oh, I appreciate that. Um,

[00:34:25] And there we go. Okay. So hopefully, I don't think that was really one of those clarifying, uh, sessions, but one that gives us lots to think about. And the two things I want you to take out of it is if it's 3d, we, I think we are looking at that as being part of the direction that the ball has traveled.

[00:34:50] Because unless it's explicitly ruled against in the rule book, we have to allow it as a possibility unless there's a really good reason why not because it doesn't fit within the spirit of the rules, but this does fit within the spirit of the rules. So let's do it. And the other thing is, uh, a tactical or a strategic understanding of why we need to be mindful about when we are communicating with players, especially about things that have happened in the past.

[00:35:19] Because as soon as we start verbalizing our brains are there. So it takes a lot of energy to process something that's happening in the present, thinking about what could happen in the future, and also be going through your head and then verbalizing what you saw to another player that is probably outside a lot of our wheelhouses.

[00:35:40] So let's not add too much cognitive processing to our brain.

[00:35:54] Okay, few got through by the skin of my teeth on that one. Before we move to the next topic, a little announcement for you all. I wanted to bring up this situation, which I have conflicting feelings about Hamish, one of our very. Treasured members of our F H U three third team. He's one of our moderators in the Discord server.

[00:36:26] And, um, the only reason that I'm gonna support this is because I know he realizes that he is a better, um, player than a player. He's clearly a decent player because he's playing for Scotland under eighteens. Okay? That just goes to show you how good of an umpire is. He might be doing umpiring wrong by playing here, but consider whether you might support the Scottish Under 18 team in order to support one of our own.

[00:36:58] They are. Raising money for all the things that they do, all of their tours and tournaments. So there is a GoFundMe link. It's in the description, it will be in a little card thing above here once we've had time to do that and post. So give it a shot. And Hamish, I look forward to you stopping this nonsense and getting straight into partying.

[00:37:24] Okay. I'm just kidding. I really do believe very strongly in the impact of playing high performance, recreational, every kind of hockey you possibly can while you are umpiring as much as possible because it makes you better, it makes you understand the why of why you're doing things. What works with you when you, when you hear umpires talking to you, when you, when you see their body language, when.

[00:37:54] You're attempting skills or you're trying to cheat, those things will all make you a better umpire and I think that it's really important to keep those up as long as possible. So, hey mish. I'm just kidding. Mostly. All right, Taco, are you here? Glad to see you. Alright, let's move on to our next topic.

[00:38:17] Sliding challenges. There were a couple of these this weekend that we can deal with a little bit quickly. No. Cats putting up a pole for this one. Get a balls when you go to ground, don't you? Actually that one, he's Lucky's lucky. It's yellow card sliding. I didn't, no yellow card.

[00:38:51] Tsk, we're all with you on that one.

[00:38:59] Um, okay. No, uh oh. No. But didn't we hire Danny Kerry as a coach? Anyway, that's very complicated. Thank you very much for that link, Simon. I appreciate it. Okay, so here we are once again on our own. Hey, we are again, why do I have hair metal going through my head or glam rock? So, uh, this is one of those sliding tackles that I just wanna point out because of, you know, I'll, I'll be interested to see, do we have a pole running right now?

[00:39:43] Yeah, here it is. Okay. And what I love about Cat is that she just put up a poll where she doesn't list play on as being an option. That is some shade I like. That's really funny. Okay. For me, this is just a miss, which happens. And when play is coming towards you, it can sometimes be very difficult for you to see all of the angles on this.

[00:40:11] And sometimes we get ourselves into little entanglements when we start worrying about whether we should be taking into account the angle at which a ball carrier is moving with that ball. So let's see if I can find the, Two A. It should be this one. Okay, so when we're looking at, is this even gonna work?

[00:40:38] Oh, are you kidding me?

[00:40:44] I'm so mad.

[00:40:48] Okay, so just what, what I wanna bring you back to is you're reading this or reading this as you're watching this, okay? And we're gonna slow this down a lot and look at this replay. Okay? Right here we've got two players that are almost neck and neck, but this player is just marginally in the lead. He's out in front, okay?

[00:41:18] And over three or four paces, he's able to get himself really. He's, he's able to get his body out in front. And even though their sticks are almost quite there, you can see how the Argentinians defender stick is coming underneath and he's gonna try to sweep this. He wants to try to sweep this ball with the, um, reverse edge of a stick off the, off, off the turf.

[00:41:50] But he's only able to get that close to the ball because he's already in a position where he's taking the chance of falling down. And in order to get to this ball, the Indian attacker has to run in this direction anyway. So sometimes we get ourselves a little bit like, oh, well he's cut him off, and that's not fair to the defender.

[00:42:09] Yeah, it is. It is because he's first and he gets to take whatever spaces that he wants to take. So it's up to the chasing defender to take that into account and to conduct himself in a manner that is safe for the rest of this play to proceed. Okay. And then here we are in the moment where the ball has, let's just see how the, how the ball gets contacted here.

[00:42:38] So they're, they, they kind of have a, a, a touch on meeting here. And at this point, this is where the players lost control of his body, but he was in full control up until that point. So that's his decision to take the opportunity or the chance to go to ground. And for me, this is a sliding tackle to which the briefing guidance of the 10 minute yellow card applies.

[00:43:04] Let's see, how many of you agree with that?

[00:43:14] Let's see what happens. I know it wasn't long, but gang, we are, we are rocking and rolling now on these. On these scenarios,

[00:43:33] see what happened. Okay. How do I get this? Mm

[00:43:45] oh, I'm trying to get it. Get everything working bigger and oh, 800% is too much. Apparently. Just learned that. Okay. Is that showing up? I can't tell cuz as soon as I move that, that's in the way. Oh, there I should look there. Alright, so 55% of you just wanted a five minute yellow card. Why? Why? Nope.

[00:44:20] Okay. Um, we'll try checking that Dutchy and have a look. Maybe one of the mods can just check on Hamish's Facebook and see whether for some reason the link is not there. A hundred percent breakdown. A play. Yeah. Yep. It's there. Liam, could it be said that not player's possession of the ball, then it could be deem a fair contest?

[00:44:40] Nope. No, you have to do so fairly. You can't take down another player just because you're trying to get to a 50 50 ball. That, that doesn't help. Good shot though. William. Just take a shot, see if it works. You know, throw some spaghetti at the wall.

[00:44:59] Okay. Thank you very much. Oh, Simon, you're on top of it. Okay. And that one works great. Okay. So let's just make sure we get the, the right, um, the right one in place for later. Awesome. Okay, here's another slide that I want you to have a look at. It is not a sliding tackle case and there's another.

[00:45:17] Necessarily poor.

[00:45:23] Yeah, I'm happy. She's just better. Okay, so maybe more to Liam's imagination here that this is a, an attempt at a 50 50 ball, but one player decides in full control that she's going to dive and she's gonna go down onto the ground. Now she doesn't take down her opposition, but what she does do is play the ball with her body.

[00:46:02] And given that she's just coughed up the ball on, uh, on a, uh, on a poor reception of a pass. And what we see in real time is the way that the Dutch do things very, very well is that they're about to turn over and they're, they're gonna go, they're gonna go. And at this point in the game, it's probably a little bit late and

[00:46:35] it's also known as Alistair. Sorry, this is very confusing. Okay. Um, Andy, you think this is 10 minute yellow for danger?

[00:46:52] I'm, I'm not sure. I, I don't see it that way. I don't see where, because we. I, I don't think this is, this isn't one of those, potentially, like, this isn't a sliding tackle, but what she's doing is she's, she's reaching out for the ball. She's put herself into danger. And we don't card players for that. But what we do card them is for breaking down the play and putting themselves, taking a reckless, uh, sorry.

[00:47:23] Taking an intentional action that is reckless as to the result of stopping the ball in an illegal way, stopping the play from proceeding in an illegal way. So that is what is happened here.

[00:47:39] Yeah. No, it's, I, I don't, I don't see the danger in this situation here. So let's see what's happened with the poll. Get your votes in. Get your votes in, because we're gonna move on. What means gc? Um, Anique GC is Green card, sorry. And it's. What's the, what's the Dutch word for green? I can't remember. And then cart is with a K.

[00:48:08] Let's see. I'm sure you're gonna tell me in the comment soon. Apologies. It's nice for you to, to get that clarification. And, sorry, we're using English, um, acronyms with that, not always the, the most helpful thing. Okay, so I've just ended the poll. Let's see, what's everybody saying here?

[00:48:34] Oh, two minute warning.

[00:48:45] Okay, so for dutchie here. Yeah, I, oops. I can, I can definitely see that as well. Oh, I'm just trying to move this in the frame a little bit. So 44% of you were thinking about a five minute yellow card for that one free hit only for 16% of you. Nope. Nope. That's not just a free hit. She has in full control of her body, put herself down on the ground to make herself a long barrier so that if she misses it with her stick, she's got a chance of stopping with her body.

[00:49:24] That is what we're penalizing here. Okay, I'm leaning in cuz I want you, I wanna make sure that you're really getting this point. Okay. And 5% of you wanted a 10 minute EL card. Think about where we are and what we're gonna look at in terms of the severity of the card or whether we're gonna card something in a game we're gonna look at.

[00:49:45] Impact on the play. We're gonna look at repetition of that foul and we're gonna look at danger. Okay. Andy thinks there was danger in there. I disagree. I don't think there's any element really of danger whatsoever, so I don't think that applies. We don't know what the history of the game was. We don't know how many of the cards were given at that point.

[00:50:05] So we're looking at the impact on the play as really the only factor we're taking into account. And I think between a green card and a yellow card, we could go either way. It's late in the game. China's already down a couple goals at this point. So how much impact does it have? I think it really does border, and you could hear Lorre on the radio to Sarah say Greeny yellow, and Sarah's like, uh, your call, it's up to you.

[00:50:36] And. One of the things that I talk about when we talk about carding, the horn's gonna go,

[00:50:45] that is time

[00:50:49] we're gonna proceed to this special little coaching message to make sure that I, I get this point home. Um, I did a debrief with, uh, very treasured yellow member, you, uh, yesterday and we were working through a game of his and one of the techniques that I recommended to him, something that he can try for future games, and this is something that you might wanna try in your arsenal as well, is pre-planning what your next card is going to be.

[00:51:19] So it's not that you're prejudging a situation saying, oh, I know I'm gonna card if, if, you know, when these two players come together. It is, I've just given this warning. What's my next step if Red does this? It's gonna be a green card. If it's dangerous, it's gonna be a yellow card. If it's super high impact, it's gonna be a yellow card, but otherwise it's gonna be a green card.

[00:51:44] So now you've pre-decided the wheels are greased and you can move on with the game. And then if that thing does happen, you're like, oh, I remember that time where I made that decision. Great. And you can quickly bring out the card. When we have to decide on the fly, it gets really difficult because we start thinking about, oh, well there was that time where there was that other slide and, and you know, and she didn't make contact.

[00:52:10] Was that worse? And, you know, what time are we in the game? And right, you, you end up losing your certainty. It, it gets more difficult. So it's about being proactive in your head about the decisions that you're gonna make next. Okay? So think about adding that to your umpire and repertoire for your next thing.

[00:52:34] Let's see. Um, yeah, normally you would think it's a green, but as it's fourth quarter yellow card, five minutes, yes. Because of the impact on the play. Totally reasonable. I can see it either way and a lot does depend, you know, like if there was anything else early in the game breakdown and, and to be honest, don't remember in that particular game, there were a lot of games over the last six days.

[00:52:59] There could have been, there may not have been. Okay. Uh, Stijn, can't one argue that the way that the China player slides the news, news Netherlands player can only play the ball into the China player's body with a risk of injury. That's why the Dutch player didn't play the ball. Um,

[00:53:22] I don't, I don't know, but

[00:53:28] I, I, I'm sorry, I'm struggling to put this together to see why that. It. Are you saying that that is relevant to the danger issue? She's putting herself in danger. She doesn't have to be carded for putting herself in danger, end of story. Right. Does that, I hope that clarifies everything gang. Dallas has got it.

[00:53:49] Um, yeah, but you can't cause danger to yourself, Andy, or sorry. You can, but you, you don't get penalized for that because what we're doing is we're trying to make sure that your actions as a player we're, we're looking at the impact on the opposition.

[00:54:12] Okay. Um, I, I, I hope that's clear now because that is absolutely the case. Uh, so. Book it, um, card for using the body. Had that on Sunday, advised for a PC and upgrade will men's level. Okay. Using cards more applicable is one of your learning points. It's, it's a lo it's a lifelong journey. As an umpire, as you're, you're learning it.

[00:54:39] You thought China took the ball with a stick first, then the ball went past her, stick to her body. Think on another day it could have been an awesome tackle, but on that day it broke down the play because she didn't, she took a high risk, and if she succeeds and she takes it with her stick and she doesn't bring down the Dutch player by either tripping her with her stick or trip, tripping her with her body and she doesn't play the ball with her body, then you play on and you're like, wow.

[00:55:08] Incredible skill. Right? But because it's a high risk, the penalty is big. High risk. It's gonna fail. You take that chance, you know it's a chance, you know there's a good chance you're gonna mess this up. And that is what breaking down play is. Okay. Hope that helps.

[00:55:32] Um, this is a terrible red herring, Andy, could you lie and, and add a player fee? Okay. I don't even know what that means. So try again. But you can, you can do stupid things all you want, but that doesn't make the severity of the offense that you've committed against the other, other team worse. Okay? You've simply caused your, you, you're simply an idiot, okay?

[00:56:02] And you don't need to be carded for that. You should just get off the field.

[00:56:11] Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure what's happening there either, but, Andy, feel free to, to, to, to keep trying. Part of what we do on this, on these streams and what we do in the server is we work really hard at the way that we express ourselves. We use very concise language. We try to use the proper terminology because that helps everybody who aren't native English speakers be able to find and understand the things that we're talking about.

[00:56:40] We also try to be consistent and clear in the way that we apply our interpretations. So part of the rigor of this process is me challenging you back on what you're saying here and getting you to work harder at the way that you're expressing yourself. Because if you can do it here, you're more likely gonna be able to do it when you're on the pitch.

[00:57:07] All right. Let's see. Um, another brief interlude of an announcement. Oops, I gotta take that off the screen. Uh, I wanted to send out a really brief note of congratulations and thank you two Ali Mamou.

[00:57:31] The confetti worked. Thank goodness Ali is gonna be umpiring at the under 18 National championship this summer in Canada, in Brampton, Ontario. And myself and Jamal Burgess are gonna be, uh, his, um, ums we're going to be his, um, Uma and I'm really excited about working with him. And he decided, ah, what the, Hey, it's, it's time to join Yellow.

[00:57:57] I can join in a bunch of watch parties and get to know Keely and Jamal. He probably knows Jamal really well, but. I can get to know Keely and find out what's gonna happen to me this summer. So, Allie, thank you very much for hopping on board. And if you wanna learn more about the f u third team, go to fh FHumpires dot com slash F h U three T.

[00:58:16] Um, we are going to be doing some very exciting things in the fall with the programming, so stay tuned for that. Uh, I think it would be a good idea to get on board now, I'm just saying if you're considering it. Okay. Let me see if, uh, okay. Sorry. It's, it's difficult, but I can only do with what I've got, uh, because we're not in a conversation in a voice channel, but we have a Discord server where we can go in and we can have a better conversation.

[00:58:50] We can hop into a voice channel and you and I can talk about it. Okay. Um, let's see. Oh, oh. Are there not enough lakes yet? That's terrible. Um, this, this is the thing. William, thank you for pointing that out. There you go. And yes, is one of the other new yellow members. Steven, thank you for welcoming Ali into the fold.

[00:59:22] We are gonna be doing a debrief with Steven tomorrow in the server, so that's available to all the yellow members and we're gonna be going through one of his matches. So I'm really excited about it. This guy is prepared. I got a DM from him this morning, whoosh. And I'm like, wow, that's even more notes than I take on a game.

[00:59:40] So I'm really excited about doing that. So there we go. Okay, we are at this Allister. Are you here? Allister? I hope you're here because we talked about this last week. Shepherding the ball off the end line and you said, if I see an example, I'll bring it up. I got you friends. Here's your example.

[01:00:11] You okay with the advertising? Hoardings will stop the time. Just wait for the time. Push from the, just wait. The time he stopped, right. Little bit of a notch there. And uh, is he good? It's interesting cause I think.

[01:00:29] Okay. Get your votes in on the poll really quickly, please. Whichever the, the one that, uh, Cat set up. And Cat, thank you very much for reaching out to Andy and then Andy, I hope you take Cat up on that. Uh, she's a lot funnier than me, which isn't hard cuz I'm kind of a jerk. So, um, good to see that, uh, you know, we're here to look after you as much as in as soon as we know that we can help, we will jump to it.

[01:00:54] So there you go. He's here, he's here. So let's talk about this. The concept that we're dealing with on this play is obstruction. So is the defender using their body, their stick, or a, or a teammate in order to prevent their opposition from playing the ball. Okay. And get the, get the, get the answers in right away, cuz we're not gonna spend too long on this one.

[01:01:30] Okay, so what we're looking at is whether there is a true disadvantage

[01:01:40] that prevents the attacker. Are they making an effort to reach that ball? Are they within playing distance? Are they, um, are they in a good position to try to make that attempt? For me, all of those things exist here, and even without the extra little push that you, you, we can still be best friends, but come on, I, I still have to point this one out.

[01:02:13] That, uh, this one for me is an obstruction and you could argue that it's an intentional obstruction and therefore a penalty corner cuz it happens just inside the circle and that sort of thing. I think I would still be happy enough with a penalty corner in this situation, but I could even see a penalty stroke here because we're not looking at, we're not measuring the opportunity on goal that is taken away by the intentional foul anymore.

[01:02:46] That has gone by the wayside. The f i h has been very clear that they've instructed us that we're just to look at the recklessness as to breaking down the play. If it happens inside the circle, it just simply has to be p ps. It's gotta be a penalty stroke end of story. Okay, now if you're wondering why it is that one of the best umpires in the world didn't seem to have a good view on this, Look at the positioning.

[01:03:15] It's very close to being very good, but the margins for error in this situation are very small. When the ball is coming at you and when you are only, you are within single digit meters, and especially in this case, maybe 4, 3, 5 meters away from the ball, your vision goes down, okay? You are now looking down at the ball and because things are happening very close there, you don't see what's happening above.

[01:03:48] You don't see what's happening at hip height. You don't have enough big enough you, and let's face it, there's two guys that are barreling straight at Lorraine, and she almost gets taken out and, you know, it's, it's pretty lucky that she doesn't, this is simply a proximity issue and it's about being too close.

[01:04:09] So I talk about how important it is to experiment with your mobility and move off at angles, particularly moving off at an interior angle in this situation so that you can have more distance away, step off the pitch earlier, be further away from these plays when they get very close to you. And that would've helped in this situation in order to see what happened.

[01:04:36] And that's what these poles, these poles age you. There you go. Um, let's see what y'all are saying. Oh, your, your you two studio crash. So sorry. Gee, you're all good. Um, let's see. It's a Simon Simon. It can't be a penalty corner and a card unless you're saying it's outside of the circle. If you're saying the, the, the foul is outside the circle.

[01:05:05] Okay. I think it's inside the circle. Okay.

[01:05:13] Maybe that's the way that you get away with not having to give a penalty stroke here. But where does the disadvantage occur?

[01:05:24] Interesting. I'm thinking about it, but Anique wants a PC in a card because of the use of the right arm, because of the intentional obstruction. Anyway, I think the card comes because of the extra danger that is in that situation, the extra physicality that isn't necessary.

[01:05:48] Okay. Pc, even if the rule says ps, we think the attacker almost touched the ball on the line, says, Dutch McDo so close enough. There's nothing unique about this. There's something which, uh, uh, happened. Penalty struck them. Okay, 20 or 30 years, you're waiting for the vote. So you could argue. For the raised hand push.

[01:06:07] Okay. You think you saved it? Alright, let's see. We will, uh,

[01:06:15] Liam, I, I think that it was just, it all happened very fast right in front of her and that, that's all Liam. It was just a misread. That's all. Okay. And, and so what we need to focus on is what are we looking at? We're looking at whether the attacker was actually disadvantaged. They couldn't reach the ball because of the way that the defender used his body to shield it.

[01:06:39] Okay. And then we're looking at,

[01:06:45] uh, we we're looking at whether the attacker was making an attempt, whether they were in playing distance. And then how can you as an umpire, ensure that you can get the best view on this, which is to get further away if you can, is to not get trapped with the ball barreling down at you, which is gonna be, I mean, this is a very difficult thing to do, but.

[01:07:06] If you are off at an angle, if you're further back off the baseline, you are gonna have a better opportunity to see this. That's what we're focusing on. Uh, you couldn't argue for the penalty stroke as the push was just outside the circle Jest. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. I understand. Good. Thank you. Okay. The elbow was inside.

[01:07:30] The obstruction was outside.

[01:07:36] No, I wouldn't class out as violent. If you're saying violent in the sense that that's a red card. No, that's not, that's not red card violence because it's still part of the hockey play. It's, it's, you know, if, if somebody pushes a player into the end boards, um, and there's, I I, I sound like I'm talking about ice hockey now, but.

[01:08:03] If, if a player gets pushed in end boards like that and it's, uh, the, the ball is nowhere near it, that's a red cart because that's not attempting to play hockey, but there's a competition for the ball, the, the player's under pressure, all that kind of stuff. So it's, it's part of the game. So the question is, what kind of card would you give for this?

[01:08:33] And let's see what y'all said.

[01:08:42] How'd we do PC and a yellow card? Five minutes for 42% of you penalty stro for 28%. 90% Just wanted a PC at a PC and a green card. Because presumably it happened outside for 9%. 21 votes. Yeah. Okay. Difficult one. Right. There's a lot of variables. And Simon did bring up a good point about where exactly the disadvantage happened.

[01:09:07] Um, yeah, yeah. My gut's saying belly's stroke, and yes, for Stijn he's saying that it's, it's sellable. Um, because Luke said the following, he, he was happy with the start of the obstruction, was outside the circle for that, but no complaint for of the penalty stroke of the umpire believed that the obstruction happened inside the circle with the push.

[01:09:32] Yeah. Because if it, it's kind of like playing advantage through into the circle and if the disadvantage occurs inside the circle, you don't, you don't take it back for the lesser penalty, just cuz you can, that's actually the opposite of what you wanna do. Uh, you almost cheered for ice hockey. You know what?

[01:09:54] I just haven't enjoyed a little bit of ice hockey for a long. A long time. I, I think that world might be lost to me. Very sad. Anyway, thank you very much for your contributions on that one. Um, Alistair, I hope that helped a little bit. Okay. It's about the looking at, you know, there's, there is no need for, uh, the defender to, to move his body wide like that in order to, cuz the ball was interior and he was like this and, and, you know, and that's where the attacker was trying to reach from.

[01:10:30] Playable distance. Could have gotten it. Yeah. For me that is, the obstruction is definitely there. Okay.

[01:10:44] Right. Let's go back to this. I gotta remember to clear the screen before I, I move off. I keep thinking, okay, quick reminders about our umpiring shirt. Pre-sale is going on. We had a great response last week, if you are interested in pre-ordering this shirt, okay, we have them in green and orange, as you can see from the lovely graphics, may not be exactly as depicted, but very, very close.

[01:11:13] And we're aiming to make these greens and oranges usable in many jurisdictions. How else do I, I don't know if I can say that any other way. And because you're pre-ordering, you're gonna be saving yourself 15% off, so that goes on until July 1st. So give that a shot. Now, if that wasn't enough friends, if you're ordering within the presale period, you will be entered to win one of these two oops rear bands.

[01:11:46] Courtesy of our good friends over at the reverse stick. Now, I could model this, but first of all, I'd look like Borg. And second of all, I'd get makeup all over it. And this is a white headband. So I'm, this is pristine and it's gonna stay that way. So I will not be modeling this cards are not included. Hey.

[01:12:09] And if you get that joke, you understand me. You understand me. So our friends of the reverse stick sent these through, uh, a few weeks ago and I decided that they were just too darn cute to not use in a giveaway. So make sure that you order your presale shirts as soon as you can. It's kind of cute. Hey, I hope you like those.

[01:12:36] And a reminder that, uh, as I posted in the Discord server, we are gonna be closing the shop to the sale of the physical merch. From mid-June until the beginning of August because we are shifting fulfillment providers so that the, the in the announcement section, there's a post where you can look to see what is not gonna be available because of the virtual, the courses are still gonna be there.

[01:13:02] And memberships, those are gonna be fine. But, uh, other than that physical merch, like the very, very popular duffel bag, the kit bags, whistles, cards, um, skirts, anything that you might be looking for for your umpire and gear, make sure you order it before June. Holy smokes. June 18th, so you've only got a few days.

[01:13:32] Okay, there we go. That's the situation where we at four. Okay. Oh, this one's gonna be tough. Video Empire Advice Not taken. Okay. Now here's a chance. Surprise happened in an India game against Argentina. Can go upstairs they want, and I had many gonna go upstairs. Inquiries come through on the socials about this particular situation.

[01:14:06] I'm looking for push inside of the D. Correct. Okay. You have another angle on that. Ah. That's what's interesting about the video on Par setup, inov. This is Anja wrote Road Club, is that it appears that what we are able to see on the broadcast is what the video umpire is seeing as well. So unlike any other, Are most other, uh, situations where they have different camera angles available and they're looking at things at different time in a way that isn't good tv as it work?

[01:14:51] Yeah. I have advice for you. There is a push inside of the D You can award a PC and India keep the referral. Okay.

[01:15:01] It's marginal for me. It's not a push if you don't believe it's a push you could override, but they must keep their referral. Yeah. Do, do you agree that's the right thing to do if they keep the referral or not? Here, they're covering their mics. Okay. You can keep their referral. Do you agree with pc? Yeah. I, I, I agree with your decision.

[01:15:19] Okay. Okay guys, we give a free out and you lose your referral. It's my decision. That's not a push. That is not a pc. Sorry guys for that. You lose your referral. Me neither. I decided it's not a pc. It's not a push. You lose a referral. We have two boards. Please wait. So the commentators are saying they've never seen that, but it's happened before.

[01:15:43] It happened in the European or in Yeah. The European championships in 2019 in a game between Netherlands and Germany where a penalty stroke decision was, uh, overruled by the umpires. And the two umpires on the pitch were, um, Paco Vesquez, and I think it was Dan Barstow was on with him. And it has also happened in way back in 2014 when my friend Carolina Def Fuente, who's now retired, uh, overruled a decision that, uh, I haven't been able to track down.

[01:16:20] But it's, it's one of those things that in the, in the annals of international umpire history, we, we all heard about this. Okay. Um, Oh, would they be a good Father's Day gift? Oh, yeah. Except they're not gonna come by Father's Day, so just as long as you're aware of that, that this is a September delivery.

[01:16:41] Okay. There you go. Um, okay. I'm gonna come back to your other questions after we deal with the, this one to make sure that, uh, that I don't get too far off track. Okay. Um, let's just see. Oh, lovely. Yeah, Simon. It looked awfully though. India realized Argentine was on the fast break, so decided to stop that referring, which is an Argentine trick.

[01:17:07] Well, they're not the only ones who've done it, but yeah, it, it is really interesting that it, it the, it seems like the defender actually looks up to see, oh, Argentina's on the break. They're moving. Yeah. Let's give this one a stab. Okay. And that's something that I pointed out in the watch party. I thought, yeah, it was Dan and Paco.

[01:17:30] There you go. You guess this wasn't a poll. Yep. That's absolutely fine. This is, this is just a learning moment. It's just something that, this is a difficult call. Okay. It's, it's right on the edge and the, and the first question that people had for me is, can a pitch umpire do this? Are they allowed to not take the video Umpire's, uh, advice on this?

[01:17:56] And the answer to that is yes, they are definitely allowed to make their own decision. You can see this is the video umpire regulations that is appended to the FH outdoor tournament regulations, which. Can be varied for different competitions. The Pro League has a different set of regulations. The World Cup will, the Olympics definitely will.

[01:18:21] There's, there's little changes, but the video umpire regulations are basically like, they're the same. If they're in place, they're in, they're there for everybody. And in three, three is that it's for the match umpire to take account in any breach, um, in reaching their final decision. Okay. And it's an advice and recommendation I as it's set out in rule 3.2.

[01:18:52] So it, it is within the remit of the pitch umpire to say, no, I'm gonna stick with my original decision. The difficulty in doing so in the way that our video umpiring process is set up is that unless. The pitch umpire is watching different angles. The angles that the video umpire is they're putting themselves at risk of not seeing and not being able to take who into account all the things that the video umpire did.

[01:19:31] And I'm not saying that that's necessarily true in this case. What I'm saying is the appearance of it is that, well, wait a minute. The reason the video umpire is there is because they've got one, two, maybe three, maybe six different angles that they can look at something and the match umpire saw it from one angle.

[01:19:51] And maybe there was something that in slow motion you had a better view of, not a worse, but a better view of, and that needs to be taken into account as well. So it puts the match umpire. A bit into a hole of being, not, not taking into account the extra information that can be given, given the fine line of this call.

[01:20:20] For example, you know, the, the Indian players is definitely gonna be turning either to curl or maybe he's body shielding, but we don't know because in my view, the Argentinian player just comes and barrels into him. Okay? It's not the, the way that the Indian player falls is not, you know, it, it's kind of weird and I think he makes a bit more out of it than he needs to.

[01:20:48] And that can be a complicating factor because if you look at that, you're like, why would I give that? Fell the guy, like, you know, hurled himself onto the ground a little bit. This is why we still need carting for diving in our game, because we don't wanna see any more of that kind of thing happening. But for me, I can see very well why a video umpire would come to a different decision than the pinch umpire, the pitch umpire in this case, for me, the defender doesn't look to be playing the ball.

[01:21:19] He looks to be playing the body here. Okay? Their, their stick is just not looking to reach for the ball. So we need to have a more folsome discussion about why one would overturn these decisions or not. But in the end, what happens for us is, okay, it's a nice intellectual exercise for us to understand whether it's, you know, what a video umpire would do, but these are the considerations that we need to keep in mind when we're working with our colleagues at home and when do we take their advice and why.

[01:22:04] And when might we refuse their advice? So we've had discussions in the server recently where somebody came and overruled a goal or a penalty corner decision. They, they just, they had the rule wrong and the advice that they were getting was, Hey, this is actually the rule. And they were like, no, I'm sticking with my decision.

[01:22:23] It's like, okay, well, you know, you can do that, but, or vice versa. That the advice that they're getting is based on an incorrect application of the rule. What we need to be cognizant of is, does our colleague have a better view of the situation because of their angle? And should we be taking that into account?

[01:22:44] Okay, so this isn't a bright line, this isn't a, you know, a, a firm situation. I can't give you a black and white here, but these are the things just for us to think about and to have conversations about with our colleagues because it's important. Uh, no p option in regulation. I don't know what you mean.

[01:23:05] Sorry. Um, no PC option in regulation 3.2.

[01:23:17] Okay. Thi sorry, thi this language that I, I collected was from the, um, I think that the self, the self referral part, my bad, I should have, I should have taken from the team referral process, cuz that's the one that you most understand. Oh, okay. And, and, um, Luke found that for Andy, it's just a pc, so that's fine.

[01:23:38] Um, yeah, the on pitch on par would've to be very confident, uh, is Stefan is saying, but appears to support on par. Agreed. When you say I agree. Yeah. Hannah is very careful about the language that she's using here. She's in a terrible position. Okay. Because she knows why like Ben wouldn't be coming to her and saying what he is if he wasn't very confident that he had the right decision at the time.

[01:24:02] She's trying to figure out how to make this work as best as possible on a broadcast, on a broadcast game. And one of her suggestions is, okay, well you're gonna overrule but can keep their referral, right? Because it's pretty sh it's, it's pretty tough for a team to be awarded the result that they asked for from the video umpire, but then for the pitch umpire to refuse that advice and therefore lose their referral, that compounds the, it, it, it compounds.

[01:24:40] Compounds the importance of the situation. How's that? Um, there you go. And what she says is, I'll agree with your decision. So if your decision is to overrule the video umpire, I'll stick with you on that. Okay. She's not saying she agrees with the pc, cuz Ben asks her, do you agree that it's not a pc? And she's like, I agree with your decision.

[01:25:04] Okay. Different language. So she's, there you go. Yep. Okay. So it looks like we have that all street and that's good. So I wanted to come back to a couple of the questions that were left over. And apologies. There's, there's the delay, there's the lag between when we throw out, um, you know, when I'm like, last call for things about the last segment and then I move on and then 30 seconds later, you know, you're typing and then it takes a while to come through.

[01:25:39] So apologies. And I know it's not always a continuous, um, continuous thing. So, Stefan, just following up on the obstruction, uh, your question was, would you consider a yellow card if you award a penalty stroke? That's not why I would consider a yellow card. I would consider a yellow card. If so, I'm looking at.

[01:26:00] Was it a repeated thing? Was it physical and dangerous? Was it extremely high impact? Okay. So let's say nothing else had happened in the game, and that is an isolated incident. So we don't have repeated, so we take that off the board. Was it, oh, I gotta be careful about which fingers I'm using here. Um, so was it, uh, very high impact?

[01:26:27] I'm not sure that the, the, the foul itself, it was, was super high, high impact in that moment. But what it was was physical and dangerous. And that's what takes me to the yellow card potential for that decision. Okay? Does that help? And the reason that it's a penalty stroke is because of the operation of the rule.

[01:26:49] Now, if that same kind of obstruction had occurred in a situation where the, um, The, the goalkeepers out of the play, for example, and the obstruction prevents an attacker from reaching the ball and putting it into an open net. Now we've got high impact and we definitely want that penalty stroke, but now we've got high impact on the play.

[01:27:15] Okay. So you see how the, those things work together there. I hope that helps. Okay. How we doing? Right? How we doing for time? Spent 90 minutes. Okay. Let's get to topic five. Yeah, let's get topic five and see what we're doing. Oh, yeah. This is a fun one too. Dealing with time wasting.

[01:27:50] Okay, so you keep your referral, but we're gonna restart with the free this, I started this in the middle of the last thing that happened because I wanted you to feel the full context. We've got 30 seconds left, quarter four and no advice possible. Video referrals just happened and now the dutcher restarting with the free hit video is right behind that goal.

[01:28:11] Looking down. Yeah. And they're throwing the away here. Yeah. Sorry I've stopped time. I've stopped time through free hit. That's, it's a team referral from India. Please. They're asking for, um, the ball being released after the whistle. I gave a free hit to India cause I was comfortable with what had happened and the release of the ball.

[01:28:33] But I've only given a free hit. I guess they're asking from penalty corner right away. I the audio whistle gun you had to play? No, you would check everything, but you had to play.

[01:28:47] She's, she's gonna check cuz they've asked for a penalty corner, that she's asking for the, the decision after the whistle. They're, they're entitled to use their referral. They're entitled to use their referral

[01:29:00] again. This one please will be clear enough. I just need to focus on the sound whistle finishes. So that's the whistle to start the play. Wasting time. Wasting time, wasting time. Whoever told you this, don't ever listen to them again. Stefan. I don't even, Hannah, what is that? I have an advice for you. The pool was indeed played after the results.

[01:29:23] So I would advise penalty corner and India. Okay, fine. So you keep your referral. We're gonna restart with the free, so there's no, so

[01:29:38] this is for us to be able to rehearse through what we might do. Near the end of a game when we are dealing with time wasting or, I mean, usually time wasting really only comes into play near the end of the game, so we'll, we'll just stick with that. And what makes this situation particularly complex is that there is a playing away of the ball after the free hit is reversed.

[01:30:08] And what's interesting for me is that after covering these kind of situations and looking at clips and watching how it works and how the umpires are using this, I think I've changed my mind. So everybody, don't call me a denning Krueger because I am here to change my mind when I learn something better.

[01:30:30] And I see now the utility of reversing free hits. And in this particular situation, It could have been very, very effective. Now, when we look in this moment, let's see, where's my, where's my apple pencil?

[01:30:50] Okay, sorry. I have to get the right video out here. Okay, so in this situation, we have the ball here. 1, 2, 3, attackers. I don't see anybody else in origin. This situation. Now, given this has happened after the team has had an opportunity. To reset. It's not like play is restarted suddenly. And that's why I included the rest of the, the, that segment beforehand because it was literally a referral and there was an explanation to the players as to why it was no advice possible, and therefore the play has to be started with a free hit to the defense because the PC couldn't be awarded because there wasn't any advice possible and that sort of thing.

[01:31:42] But imagine what would've occurred had this ball not been played away after the reversal was given, after the free hit was given for time wasting. Okay, this player has to move back. And we have a three on one

[01:32:07] because everybody's like just counting on you to aerial the ball down into the other end with 30 seconds left in the game.

[01:32:16] Okay, so is there a disadvantage in this moment because an Indian attacker could have come in and played that free hit quickly, and is that, is that what they should have rather than the ball being played away, time being stopped and everybody being able to set up and the free hit now been given again to the attack?

[01:32:45] Just outside the circle. I know what I'm voting for on this. I don't know if we have a, a poll set up there. We're into the Keely hour plus. Yeah, we are into extra time now. Okay. So think about that in your games, if you've given a reversal, if you have awarded a free hit against a team for time wasting, and then they play the ball away, they have compounded.

[01:33:12] They're foul and they have prevented a quick, they could have prevented a quick free hit from being taken that would've been really advantageous by their own misconduct. Okay. So I hope we have some new sort of scenarios in our arsenal, some new skills to think about, some new areas to focus on.

[01:33:38] Hopefully that wasn't, um, you know, I'm, I'm surprised I went on as long as I did. I, I was, I'm trying to move through more topics, more solely. I do have a, a sixth, the sixth topic of the aerial infringement advantage in make it, and the chances of us getting into next week after we've had so many more games, which start on Friday, are very, very, very slim.

[01:34:01] Um, this past weekend in e Hoven was very intense. It was, it wasn't a weekend, it was six days for the umpires, five umpires on, for all of the games. They had very little rest. It was warm, it was intense. It was, it was a hard, hard six days. So everything that we worked through today was for the purposes of us understanding better how those pressures come into a play and what we wanna do in the future.

[01:34:30] Not necessarily, again, we are not here throwing shade. We are not here dragging. It's about what can affect these decisions and what can we do differently. So that we don't have to go through all the mistakes that everybody else is always making and try to speed up our development so we can be as awesome as possible.

[01:34:46] Thank you very much. Alright. There were two more defenders outside the view. Yeah. Um, but, but where, and if they're outside the view, they're, they're not in the place. So there you go. Gary, you're late. Dude. You are so late. I can't even thank you, Ian, for being here and thank you for sticking around for an extra time.

[01:35:10] Um, our, uh, Stefan come back into the discord and we can talk about this a little bit more. Uh, and hopefully we can get that all straight for you. It was a blast. It was a, it was an interesting little situation. It's been very hot in the uk and another one says, uh, Dawkins, you built your well sunblock through all your hair as well.

[01:35:38] Huh. Alright, well there is, there are sprays. Spray your hair down. There you go. Um, you might not get many of the watch parties. Yes, we're gonna have a whole bunch of watch parties, which reminds me. I better schedule all of them and enjoy yourself at the London Youth Games. That was fantastic. Yes. Hydrate and use theirs, tugs.

[01:36:01] It's efficient. Likes he's mad. It's efficient. Likes get going on this people before I sign off. But thank you for joining in. Enjoy your hockey weekends. Make sure you come visit the Discord server. Oh, I had it somewhere. I, I had the, I had the graphic. I put it somewhere, I can't find it now. I'm just clicking buttons for funsies fh FHumpires dot com slash discord.

[01:36:29] We are gonna see Andy in there because we're gonna help him out and get everything straight, and this is where we can have some really good discussions, get to know each other better, and really dig into the work of supporting each other through our umpire and development. Thank you for being here, and we will see you next time.

[01:36:45] Bye.

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