Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 128

📅 Aug 30 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

If you somehow missed the drama that was the European Championship men's final, I hereby challenge your life choices!

We're going to talk multi-layered decision-making, what it means for a goalkeeper to move their feet early on a penalty stroke, and just why video referrals are there.

It takes a massive set of decisions to overshadow a player spitting on another, so count on us to wrench the spotlight back on an incident which absolutely should not be forgotten.

If we happen to have enough time (LOLZ) there are some aerials infringements, 5m free hits, and an obstruction on a tackle from behind we should also pay attention to.

If you weren't sure whether umpiring hockey was hard before this live stream, you'll be #TeamExtremeMentalChallenge after it! Whatever your role in the game, we're going to work through it all together. See you there!

🚨 Sign up now and nail those big calls with Mission Critical Positioning!

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

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Transcript

#WhatUpWednesday Ep. 128

[00:00:00] Been crazy. Just wanna be okay. How can I pick up the pieces when everything breaks with every day, I'm getting older. I feel the way on my shoulder. I'm strong enough, I'll rise above strong. Gonna be okay. If I can be anything, I think I'm going to be me.

[00:00:50] I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be,

[00:01:01] I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. Everything's changing, just trying to navigate. Oh, I keep on believing, I'm gonna find my way. With every day, I'm getting older. I feel the weight upon my shoulders. I'm strong enough, I will rise above. It's all gonna be okay. If I can be anything, I think I'm gonna be me.

[00:01:28] I know I gotta be me.

[00:01:37] Nowhere else I wanna go. No one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. I'm gonna be me. La, la, la, la, la, la, la. I think I'm gonna be me, me, me. I know I gotta be me, me, me. Cause nowhere else I wanna go. No one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me.

[00:02:18] I know I gotta be me, me, me. Where else I wanna go? No one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. I gotta be me.

[00:02:43] Happy What Up Wednesday, everybody. I am on location. on a different location. I am actually here in the UK. I'm going to talk about that later, but getting ready for some talking in real life. I, I don't know. This whole piece of glass thing, so much more comfortable. So I'm a little concerned about what's going to happen this week, but there you go.

[00:03:07] So I look different. I sound different. I'm in a different location. I hope you can hear absolutely everything. Um, it's, you hear. Quiet episode, you hear mic. Hello. Hi, Gonzalo. Buenas tardes? Buenas tardes? Si. Uh, there you go. Yeah, we don't really have much going on. Oh, oh, I see. I was, you're talking about the episode, not my mic.

[00:03:35] So, there you go. Yes, definitely on the road. Um, my cousin has, can you see, can you see the artwork? There's zebras back there. Zebras. I'm looking into the wrong camera. I have to practice this. There you go. Um, yeah, well, I'll do my best. And I do have to dash at 8 o'clock because I have dinner reservations with my eldest cousin and her partner and my aunt and they don't understand why I'm doing this right now.

[00:04:02] Actually, they do understand. They know that I love this, and I love hanging out with y'all, and it's kind of a big deal this week, so there you go. The girls had Shayne umpire them this week. That is awesome, and it is good to see you, JJ. Okay, um, I cannot express any guarantees as to what is about to happen.

[00:04:21] Already, I can't annotate the clips, so… My, my whole thing that I know, like infinity, right? But I'm supposed to be able to draw on this. That's not happening tonight. I'm just lucky I have internet. That's all I can say, but it sounds good. I'm glad to hear it. There, there might be extra noise as my hair, I'll try to keep it away from the mic that I'm using, but there you are, no more excuses.

[00:04:45] Let's go. Here's our topics. Did you hear about there was something going on in the gold medal game? Hard to say. Um, and then there was something about somebody spitting. Just minor problem. There you go. And if we get to anything else, we will talk about the other two topics that just flashed up on the screen, which my notes are gone.

[00:05:05] and

[00:05:10] then another one is a video referral for free hit location. So many things involving England yet again, and if any of you happen to be with said squad, and you're watching tonight, hello. I'm glad you're here. Um, let's see, you, barely, Murph, you barely have internet. This is what I've discovered. How do you live like this?

[00:05:36] Anyway, okay, let's go. Let's get on to our first topic, because it was a thing. Here is the first… segment of the referrals. What I'm doing is going okay. There is a poll link that you can go vote. If you happen not to have seen it, here you can watch. I have edited certain things because otherwise the FIH would be mad that I'm showing too much footage.

[00:06:06] Please forgive me, FIH. This is important. Okay, so already

[00:06:17] I always got two questions put. Okay. So guys, I need to do a couple of things here. Okay. I need the replay first. Well, let's enjoy this again, Todd.

[00:06:28] So that's what the sign lifted. Okay. Then you just tell me, can you give me what has happened after this has been scored? So, just before I come back with a decision, there has been about 13 seconds between when they ask for the call and when the goal is scored. Okay. That is fine for me. Okay. Can you have a look if, um, before the high ball was a stick tackle?

[00:06:50] Yeah, I'm looking at that. Took that time to get the right decision. Okay, Ben. Yes. And felt under pressure of time. There is no clear reason to change your decision. There was a stick tackle. Yes. On the, um, English defender. So you've played advantage. So I would give the goal. Okay, so there was no high ball dangerous for you?

[00:07:05] Uh, no. Well, let, let me go back. Let me go back. Yeah. Ah, this would be the good angle. Okay, and as you're watching this angle, you're going to see the ball popping up. Yeah, okay. Hitting the player. Ali Kio's, uh, had a number of views now. Watch, he's coming up with results. Let's find out. I have some advice for you.

[00:07:26] There was danger onto the Dutch defender, so you can give a free hit to the defence and they will keep peripheral. But Ali, you said before it was a big stick tackle, so do you think that it's a… Well, okay, so, um, I think that the stick tackle has come in, and then the English guy gets the ball up into… So if you want to go back for the penalty corner first, if you don't feel that that's a good enough advantage.

[00:07:50] I will go for penalty stroke because in the, in the shot on the goal, it was a stick hitter from behind first, then the… Okay, so… Guys, it's that goal, will be a penalty stroke, and you just have to make sure… Okay, last view of it, in real time. Well he does, and that's all that really matters. Okay, so, and I, I said this during the watch party, I think I said it on Twitter, um, I certainly said it in private to several people, that this is probably the most complicated video referral that I've ever seen, and I've watched a lot of games.

[00:08:33] And as somebody who sits here in front of pieces of glass and who gets the luxury of a whole bunch of time to talk through situations, I know how much pressure there is. With all of the time that I have in the world and all the empathy that you all show me and when I occasionally misstate things and say, oh my god, I blah blah and I, I tangle over my words and my thought process isn't thought all the way through.

[00:09:02] Now, take what I do over 90 minutes and compress it into 90 seconds which is the outside target that The FH is looking for these video referrals to happen, and then you understand how much pressure Ali is under. It is incredibly, incredibly difficult. Oh, and by the way, it's a gold medal game of the Euros.

[00:09:24] Automatic qualification for the Olympics. No big deal, right? Huge, huge stuff. So, I'll go to your comments first and see what you are asking about, because really what I want to be able to do is to put everybody's minds at ease. And, and lead you through how, regardless of the, the diversions that they took in order to get to this position, that they got to the right decision.

[00:09:50] Okay? So, let's see what's going on. Hi, good to see you. And Aline is here. Okay. You're not sure what the poll is. Um, okay. But in the end, after all, the right decision. Great. Okay. You, you're done. You can. You can go have a drink. No, I'm just kidding. Maurice. Good to see you. But is it on Target? Yes, it was on Target that, that wasn't a dispute.

[00:10:12] Samantha, how do you join Discord? Okay. Mods people. Wrench people. Okay. You got it. You got it. Steven's on the case. There's very much imagine being Allie. Okay. And I will, I have the link in the, in the description to the full length interview and Ali sat. For two hours with me, and she and I talked over, we, we went through, I think, just a single game, and that's something that I did during COVID, umpire at home, we walked through a game together, and I had them share sort of their perspective on what was happening, and I asked them some questions about why they did this, why did they, how did they feel when this happened, and Allie is incredibly forthcoming.

[00:10:52] about everything that happens. She is the most transparent umpire I've ever met in terms of, you know, being at that level and being as vulnerable as she is, and yet saying, you know, I want to be fully, You know, open about how difficult this was, or how I was disappointed that I struggled here. And, you know, absolutely, imagine with, you watch an hour and a half, or you watch that two hour interview, and you can imagine how she's feeling, right here.

[00:11:20] It is, it is quite something, so we understand. And the glitchiness is at your end. Okay, let me see how… Uh, hopefully, let me know if there's anybody else that's having problems with the glitch. Is the glitch with the video that's being shown, or is the glitch with me? Or is the glitch the whole thing? You can always let me know what's happening.

[00:11:45] I will try to eliminate some things down because… This is not the internet connection that I am accustomed to. That my very posh and pampered life has led me to expect. This is what I deserve in life, is one gigabyte up and down.

[00:12:08] Just so you know. So, I'm just gonna quit a whole bunch of things and see if that helps. Okay, keep me posted how that goes. Excellent, Samantha, you're all set up. Good to hear it. Okay, but it doesn't take you to the server. It should happen. Okay. Um, and Mike, Ben, uh, his clarity of thought and recall for what he saw in the decision process at the moment was world class.

[00:12:33] Yeah, absolutely. But consider that in that moment, he gets to breathe. He is often on camera, but he doesn't have active thinking to do other than to go back through what he recollects. So what I really liked about this whole exchange is that when the advice came back, and Ben's through been through a couple of tough video referral things too, where he um, you'll remember we did a what if Wednesday when he rejected advice just outright that he had been given in a very very Ben way and And that was a difficult moment and an experience I'm sure he learned from as well.

[00:13:16] I'm not saying that he was wrong to do so. There's a lot of things that tumble out of that emotionally and mentally in terms of your teamwork with your colleagues and all these things. So what was nice to see was that In this moment, he asked questions. Are we sure that we looked at this thing? Are we sure that we look Okay, um, there you go.

[00:13:40] Um, Steven, you're okay with that outcome. It's clear there's an element of fatigue. Yep, absolutely. It was very, very tough. Mario's okay, okay. So there might be some Let's see. It's doable. Okay, yeah, so you might not be able to to be watching in full resolution, but but please watch anyway. So the first element that Allie dealt with was the amount of time after the referral, and you may have gone to the video referral regulations and looked to see that there is a time period of 20 seconds in which a team has to express what they're referring, and if they don't do so, then the umpire just takes the referral and says, FHumpires, Okay, we're just gonna have a look at the situation, you don't get to ask a specific question.

[00:14:28] Which really isn't the worst thing anyway. But that isn't the amount of time… That they're limited to, to actually make their request. The word immediate is the word that's used in the regulations, and there's no definition of immediate. So, when you think about the situation, you know, we're not going to apply the same immediacy as we would with, say, the penalty corner injection.

[00:14:56] That needs to occur immediately after the whistle blows. And we can say it's within a second or two because the player can be ready, there's no decisions to be made, there's no communication between teammates or anything like that, it's all done. There's nothing to wait for in this moment. So, we're not at that end of the extreme, but we can probably say that 20 seconds would be absolutely on the outside as well.

[00:15:22] Big game, big consequences for referrals being taken lightly. And nobody is taking a referral lightly in a gold medal game. So, having empathy with the player's situation, and when Alli comes back, and I really liked this, how she said it was 13 seconds, and Ben, as the pitch umpire, with that clarification, can then make a decision as to what he feels comfortable with in taking that referral.

[00:15:52] And I really liked that moment. I thought that was very effective. Okay? And then, there was the, the two issues right in front, in, in the goal mouth. Where there was a stick tackle that came in, and the ball also, after that stick tackle was raised, dangerously, as, you know, unfortunately, yes, it's… It's, it's a looping.

[00:16:19] It's not a hard struck ball, but we know what happens in the circle. We know what happens in a video referral. If it's above the, if it's the knee or above, it's going to be considered dangerous. End of story. The black and white, that's what people want. They don't want umpires to be subjective. So there you go.

[00:16:35] That's what you get from it. And then the confusion came as to whether the stick tackle caused the dangerous ball or the stick tackle was before the dangerous ball. Because if the stick tackle caused the ball to be played dangerously, you could potentially play advantage and play into the goal. But if you didn't, then you have to get to the result that There was a stick tackle, but that happened in the sequence of events before the dangerous ball was played.

[00:17:11] So, that's how that all worked out in that moment. Let's see what you've got here. Um, yeah, good to see you, Shayne. Enjoy your semifinals, and the rumors are you're doing really well, says Steven. So, terrific. Um, Mike, without VU, you can see the vast majority of the umpires playing through and giving the goal.

[00:17:33] Absolutely. It's the simplest way to deal with things and they're happening so fast. Remember that when you get to watch things on video referral, it slows everything down so the gaps in between the vents look a lot less contemporaneous, right? It looks like, oh, this happened. And then, after that, this completely isolated event happened.

[00:17:57] Did the stick tackle cause the misplay by the attacker that raised the ball dangerously at the defender? It's arguable. But, the more likely decision, or the safer decision, is to say that they were separate events. Looking at all that. Okay. So, the goal isn't given, because… If the dangerous ball wasn't caused by the stick obstruction, okay, that would be grounds for a free hit to be given, which is what Ali said in the first instance when she got to that portion of the video frill.

[00:18:36] But, because right before that, There was a foul that, in Ben's view, was a breakdown tackle, recklessness to the result of committing a foul, in the circle, therefore, that's a penalty stroke, that's the result they went with. Does that help in Morris? I hope it does. Maurice, sorry. Oh, never mind. I just explained it.

[00:19:04] I, I try to read the comments as quickly as I can, but there is a lag. So sometimes I'll answer the questions that I don't really have. Okay. And Stefan's going to be replay as well. I gotcha. Okay, so That is a lot to process at the same time and when you're taken a little bit off script as the question about when the referral came in was a little bit off the usual, very much actually off the usual path, then Allie had to recover and, and, and figure out how to accommodate that.

[00:19:41] I'm just turning on my music because hopefully you can hear it now when it starts playing. Um, that ends up, you know, taking people out of their patterns and there's a reason. There's a reason why I've talked about how I wish that the umpires, the video umpires, had more latitude to be more conversational, to explain their decisions more, to do all these things.

[00:20:03] But I have acknowledged at the same time that if a video umpire goes off script and has to do something that's a little unusual, perhaps push their personal skills, In explaining, articulating something so complex, the consequences might be a little bit, you know, oh shoot. Right? Mistakes can be made. The script helps keep people, keep people within boundaries and those restraints help them succeed and keep things simple.

[00:20:35] So that's the benefit there. Oh, come on, David. I'm working on it. I'd be interested to hear If you want to share, um, what it is about the situation you're not super happy with in terms of the result that was come to. And it might be that you think the 13 seconds to actually ask for a referral is too long.

[00:20:56] And I'd like to hear that because I don't think we've, we've fleshed that out. I haven't seen… Except for umpires refusing those referrals, uh, I haven't seen anybody, you know, starting a watch and going, oh, that's 10. Don't… My watch was about to talk to me. I don't know what, what you as a player would consider fair, other than it has to be a principle that applies to both teams, and every team, not just you.

[00:21:27] So, um, Chris, you like the, the change from I have a decision? Yeah, there's been some changes in the, in the languaging that I have advice for you. And I think that's positive as well. I think the implication and the understanding between the whole umpire team that, hey, I've seen a whole bunch of screens, and I've seen, you know, angles that you weren't able to review, and I've seen it a few times, and I've seen it in slow mo, I've seen it in freeze frame, I've done all these things, that that can be respected.

[00:21:58] You know, very highly, and it's only in certain situations of perhaps more subjective calls, which we have seen, where an umpire decides that that advice isn't appropriate for the situation. So, but that worked, good. Okay, well, David Maurice likes my explanations. Just saying. Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't talk about sports well.

[00:22:25] And, and what they do, other than it's not this, and it's, it's no good, but,

[00:22:34] excuse me, I, it's like mute button, where's my mute button? Uh, yeah, I'm, I'm on a slow internet review, so we're doing our best, we're doing our best. So, we have that, and within the same, we're still on 4. 13, and we're gonna have two penalty strokes now that are gonna come through, unless anybody has any other questions on this.

[00:23:02] Actually, I'll bring up this comment too, Steven says, If there wasn't the stick check, the ball would have been played differently. Surely! You know how I love that word, surely. Surely means absolutely not at all. I'm just guessing, as far as I'm concerned. Um, and that's the debate. That's the debate that you can have.

[00:23:23] And it wasn't clear to me. It could have gone either way. So I can understand Ben's… It's logic in its processing, you know what, I can't be absolutely sure on that. Maybe if I go through that angle again, let's just very, very quickly, just take a little, just take a little look. And it was at this angle here.

[00:23:53] Okay. So roper pass.

[00:24:00] So the ball doesn't deflect off the defender stick that much, we know. So it has to be the actual obstruction on the stick that causes it. It's hard to say. It is hard. So, there is no time limit. There is immediate. So, Stefan, you must have missed that when I ran through all that. We don't know what immediate means in this context and what does it mean in a gold medal game where these decisions are crucial.

[00:24:33] Because I know that I've seen instances where umpires have waved off A referral request on something that had a pretty good chance of being successful because it was a little late. And sure, there is an impetus on the players to reach their decisions quickly so the game can move. And that they don't get to, you know, call home and find out what happened on the screens.

[00:25:00] But you have to balance that with the empathy that, really, we're trying to get these decisions right. So, I'm not sure what I would say on that. Um, should hockey at this level have a VU referral standard and clock the same way other sports do? I wouldn't be surprised if after this tournament, maybe a couple of other instances, that that gets built into the system.

[00:25:22] The difficulty is… That as we saw, I think it was earlier in this tournament, that, uh, again, it's gotta be England. Roper was pointing to his arm. He was like, I got hit. I got hit right here. It was dangerous, is what he's saying. He was, he was trying to claim. And it looked like a T signal. It looked like he took the referral.

[00:25:46] And the umpire was like, I gotta take your referral. I didn't mean to make, you know, and you could see both sides there. You could see the utter confusion. The one, like, surefire way that the umpire is supposed to say, Yep, I'm not, if you make the signal, I have to take it, it's my job, I respect that this is happening, and I have to take it immediately.

[00:26:08] And then if a player is like, No, no, I didn't. Ah, so tricky. Um, there have been many occasions during a game that an umpire tells players that it's been too long when it's under 20 seconds. Yep, and that's fair. That's fair to say. And a lot has to do with, you know, some context in that. Because sometimes the players are trying to figure out, well, we don't even know what basis on which the decision's been made.

[00:26:35] And it's easier for us as the umpiring community to say, well, obviously the players should know. But they don't have the same vantage point we do, they haven't seen all the things, they're just not quite sure, and they are full of adrenaline, they're playing, it's difficult. And so we have to have a little bit of empathy with that.

[00:26:54] So, under 20 seconds, yep, sounds absolutely fair. Fifteen? 13? 17? Like, where do we go with that? And if we count it out, and we watch one game, and we'll say, oh yeah, 13 is way too long. And then we'll watch another game and say, whoa! I mean, that happened so fast! Because of the feel of the whole event.

[00:27:20] 20 seconds to clarify the question. That's where it comes from. Uh, 10 seconds maximum. And it will remove tactical referrals to stop a team breaking away and scoring. Oh, I've seen teams break stop breakaways with, you know, signaling it within five seconds easy. So it won't stop that. It'll mitigate it and help prevent some of them, but there you go.

[00:27:45] Yeah. And, and, and that's what it feels to me. It is the right outcome for that to happen in that situation. But you can see why. Those processes that are supposed to be in place with only one player asking a question. The reason that we want that is so that the umpire and that player can have a quick, clear conversation about whether a referral is going to be taken.

[00:28:08] And if there's four people, all part of the conversation, all talking to the umpire, the umpire doesn't know who to listen to and what's happening. He's got three questions going on. One guy's saying, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. We want this, but he's distracted by all this. That's one, just one of the reasons. Why we don't want to have all those conversations.

[00:28:28] So it makes it harder for everybody to do their job and get the result they want. 20 seconds is short says Mario. If you take that you give him 40 seconds to set up for a penalty corner. Um, I, I think 20 seconds would be long in game context. A lot can happen in 20 seconds, but we'll see. And 40 seconds to protect yourself from a ball traveling at nearly 100 miles per hour is definitely not long enough.

[00:28:55] Um, yeah, maybe. I don't know. The teams seem to be doing pretty well, other than the fact that their knee guards keep falling off all the time. Okay, let's go to the next segment of all of this, which were the two penalty stroke referrals that came right afterwards. Nick

[00:29:21] Pandurak, we've seen him convert a couple of these, but not under this pressure. This is huge. Can he keep body and soul together? Well, I guess I could have gone to the poll results. I'll do that later. Steps up! No, He taken two party strokes in the competition. So far gone in the same spot. You've given the goal.

[00:29:40] Yes. Free out for safe. I'm sorry. Yeah, so you can already tell that Ali is still, does he move? She's still thinking about the referral and she has to write notes about what she did about the last referral. Okay. Guys are gonna need a a side angle as well please. Once we're done. Now, he can lift his foot, I assume, as well.

[00:30:02] Oh, yeah. So, he's left heel is still on the line.

[00:30:08] Could you move the umpire, do you think? The other side, maybe? So, the referral against Van Asch that was successful, um, I think it was Ben who was on the pitch. In the supporting umpire position there, and he was more offset. So you could actually see, see the goalkeepers feet. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a piece of advice that umpires received at this level, at these tournaments coming up in the future.

[00:30:36] Well, this is what the more I have advice for you, the Dutch keeper has moved off his line before the ball has been played, so you can retake the stroke and England will keep the referral. Okay, so that's number one. Here is the retake. And I want you to watch them in succession.

[00:30:58] Hey, you can see that Visser

[00:31:16] has moved his feet back. Cause ordinarily goalkeepers are just like barely touching with the heels. on the front of the line, which they are entitled to do. There's no clear reason to change a decision. His feet are still on the line, or one of them is, so um, it's, keep with your original decision. Yeah. And they will lose their referral.

[00:31:38] Free him out and they'll lose their referral. Yes. Wow, where were we? I can't remember. Is it still Sunday? That took longer than the storm.

[00:31:51] Right, so, let's parse these out before we even go and watch the replays. This is what the rule reads, okay? The rule reads… It says that the player defending the stroke must stand with both feet on the goal line and, once the whistle has blown to start the penalty stroke, must not leave the goal line or move either foot until the ball has been played.

[00:32:17] So, the difficulty that we have as umpires… Umpires who umpire this day in day out at all levels of play with and without video referral is that the concept that a goalkeeper has to be entirely still on their line and their feet cannot move whatsoever is pretty ridiculous. And I had a, I had a couple of people, um, very high level coaches text me and say, totally still would be ridiculous.

[00:32:53] They would, they would never save anything. And what I went back to when I look at this and my, my understanding of the principles are, and they're always informed by advantage, always informed by 12. 1, is that a goalkeeper who is, moving their feet slightly on the line is not going to gain a significant advantage because they are making a guess as to which direction the ball could go, but they're not necessarily making the right guess.

[00:33:30] So is that really helping them? But a goalkeeper who moves a foot towards the ball, even by a few centimeters, It does gain an advantage because it cuts the amount of space down and it cuts the angle at which the ball is traveling into their goal. So there is a substantial difference in that case. Does that make sense?

[00:33:54] And you can tell me that I'm ridiculous. You can tell me that. Whenever you see a goalkeeper, you know, moving a foot whatsoever, fidgeting with their heel, hovering over the line instead of having their heel planted on the, on the turf. If you're going to tell me that that's how you've been calling it all your life, you're one in a many hundreds of thousands.

[00:34:19] You tell me, you tell me. Um, yes. And for you, uh, JJ, you're saying that you think that the second one was early as well. It was so, so imperceptible, and the other issue that we get to is the standard at which that a goalkeeper would be held to for saves at this level would be so astronomically different over what goalkeepers at every other level without video referral would be held to because there's no way in hell that we are seeing that.

[00:34:59] No way. I know I never see it. I'm terrible at looking at goalkeeper fouls. I'm just like, nah, you're good. You have to wear all that equipment. You're fine. I find them the most difficult decisions to make and especially because of how you are looking at The play. When you are in the proper, in the best position that we know of, for controlling penalty strokes, you are, you have the stroke taker in your front view, the goalkeeper is sort of behind them in terms of your view, so that you can see the ball and see the feet at the same time, and yet, because of the angle, because the angle's been flattened out, how are you going to see that movement?

[00:35:44] Towards you. So difficult.

[00:35:53] And is that…

[00:35:58] And what I'm saying, Ian, is that I believe the interpretation that's being applied, which is the interpretation that we've all… I mean, honestly, I want to hear somebody tell me that they have penalized a goalkeeper for moving early and awarded a retake because their foot fidgeted just a little bit laterally.

[00:36:21] Almost at the same time that the ball was played.

[00:36:27] Have you? Tell me.

[00:36:32] And the first one was indeed too early. Yes. Because his right foot moved forward and cut down the angle and it was earlier. It was earlier than the movement on the second one. So I guess, what are we, what are we trying to do with video referral in these situations? goalkeepers

[00:36:55] Are we gonna, like, freeze frame and draw lines on the pitch and do all that kind of stuff? Is that gonna make the game better?

[00:37:07] And then, yes, well, I understand what you're saying, Stephen. If it doesn't gain advantage, why do it? There's a difference between advantage in the sense that it creates an unfair benefit and just being normal, right? And if we don't want them to to be able to move whatsoever. Okay, I think that this rule actually, it's a little ambiguously worded because you can actually separate out those, the clauses, or you can combine them and that one informs the other.

[00:37:46] And what the moving means is that leave the goal line, leave the line. What exactly does that mean? That's informed by moving either foot. off the goal line. So if you read them together, you're talking to a lawyer, this can be done, then you have a very different situation on your hands.

[00:38:14] Um, the striker was close to making a drag flick instead of a flick. I will have another look, but I am going to tell you right now, no.

[00:38:27] And I just missed it.

[00:38:32] Okay, because I have done several live streams where I've tried to help people understand what is a drag flick and what isn't, and it is not defined by how many steps the player takes. It is defined by whether before the ball was released, before the ball was played, has the right foot of that player stepped in front of the ball?

[00:38:52] Not in line with the ball, has it stepped in front of the ball? Because if it's in front of the ball, now you have a… Pulling motion, which is exactly synonymous with a drag because it's opposite from pushing. A push is legal. A pull is not. Okay, look at how far back his right foot is. That is not a drag.

[00:39:12] Ever, ever, ever. Sorry. When, when straw men come up and I say that not in a… In a sexist term, but because that's what the, uh, logical fallacy is, really bugs me. You're still, you're still a good friend, Mario, don't worry. We're still best friends. Yes, so, Jade's point of, here, is that if you give a goalkeeper card, where do you go from there?

[00:39:40] Um, the other goalkeeper comes in, and the team continues the match, short. And if both goalkeepers who are fully kitted are suspended, then they have to put a field player in. That's where you go from there. It's a, it's an easy answer. And the interesting part is that it, this rarely happens. Goalkeepers rarely get called on this without the aid of video referral because it is so hard to see.

[00:40:08] So how often have you had it happen where you've wanted to give the personal penalty for it? I would argue if it happens two times in a row, that's when you give the personal penalty. Because if you have to do another retake, sorry, there has to be something more, just like what Jade is saying. So. Um, does the, Sarah play a line, uh, does Sarah on the line play a role in this?

[00:40:32] She sees what happens. Why the video umpire, not the colleague? There is no way that a supporting umpire, who is looking across the goal line, can see both the goalkeeper move and the ball move over there.

[00:40:49] Impossible. They should not be doing it. That supporting umpire is one job. Two jobs. First of all, look pretty. Second of all, see if the ball goes over the line completely. That is it. They do not try to help with goalkeeper moving early because they can't split their eyes into two directions. There we go.

[00:41:12] That's another little urban legend I got to destroy.

[00:41:19] Um, let's see. I did make it, but barely. Um, let's see. If it's normal and de facto, then the rule needs changing to the effect of the real world. Yeah, it does. It does need changing. It's on my list. I have a list that I've kept. And if I can find somebody to nom de plume it, and give it over to the Rules Committee, I bet some of the suggestions would be well received if it wasn't coming from me.

[00:41:48] But I'm on the internet, so… Um, and it's because there's so many things that they don't want to change everything at once. I, I, okay, I'm going to be fair for a moment. Changing a whole bunch of rules at once would be really terrible for the game, because people can barely keep up with the rules that get changed even when one thing happens.

[00:42:11] You know, the aerial interception rule changes and it's like explosion and chaos and dogs and cats living together. If they changed a whole bunch of things at once, it'd be way worse. So you have that, and then pressing rules that they really want to try to change in order to affect the biggest impact on the game, in their view, to help the aerial rule be more game like, to stop stifling great skill, and give the umpires a chance to not have to blow their whistle so much, all those things.

[00:42:46] And as an emerging skill, where all the kids now are growing up, knowing how to aerial the ball. Do you think it's going to happen less, you know, for us as all these kids turn into adult players? No. They're all going to be able to aerial the ball still. So, it was a big issue. So you pick your things, and then something like this, which is rare, doesn't happen very often, falls to the bottom of the pile.

[00:43:11] Unfortunately.

[00:43:17] Maurice, I ask myself that. every day. How does one change a rule? Because I would sure like to be able to do it. Um, okay, and right, but we're not here to drag players any more than we are to drag umpires. That's the way it goes. And what we're looking at is trying to give the fair result. given the skill level that is expressed by the players in the moment.

[00:43:44] It's not our job to make them better, it's our job to give them the opportunity to be the best that they can be in that moment with their abilities. And there's that. Um, let's see, okay, any other questions on this one? Because I have 10 more minutes. It's ten more minutes before I have to go for another dinner.

[00:44:09] I, I hope that was helpful. And I know what is difficult about this is that, you know, it was, there was so much pressure and a little bit of confusion and I'm not sure, you know, the commentators do try sometimes to help make everything make sense for the viewers at home. Um, but that, that was difficult even for them in that situation, but maybe there could have been different ways they could have approached it to help, and who knows.

[00:44:44] Yes, it, it, it is, it is relevant, Mike, and I'm very well aware from legal interpretation principles what the word or means, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are separate. It means that one of those two things triggers it, but is the second part after the or, an opposite element or is it informed by the former?

[00:45:09] That's, that's what we don't know.

[00:45:16] It's not that simple. Have you gone to law school? Okay, thank you. Trying to prevent migraines. Okay, let's go to our, uh, our second issue. Even though we've covered three already. But let's, let's deal with this because there have been some questions about how this was all handled. And this came from the Spain and France game right at the end.

[00:45:47] So we're gonna have to look at the poll results later because I just So this is right at the end of the game. Martin Luther is not here as a TV president, so you can restart with a free video defense, and Spain will And Spain have just lost their video referral. has come up with the rise advice there for…

[00:46:11] So number 8, as he's walking by, probably has some choice words for the Spanish player. There's 13 seconds left, and you can see him making the, you know, I want TV, I want TV. We've got 13 seconds. And this is why.

[00:46:28] Who clearly wanted to get a result. Okay? And this is after the game. French, youve come out on top.

[00:46:41] So a little bit here as as well. , Nick saying it's afters. See one of the umpire. So it's a, I mean, I haven't seen this ever. I'm sure it's happened, but I haven't seen it, particularly at the high levels. And what I learned going through this process is that, first of all, obviously, the umpires on the pitch did not see it happen, okay?

[00:47:10] And video referral does not cover conduct outside of the pitch. The play that is being reviewed in relation to the award of APC, a penalty stroke, a goal. Or, if it's a self referral, penalty stroke, a goal. So, although this player, you know, is sort of asking for a referral by, you know, making the TV motion, which is not the T that is required, it can't be referred.

[00:47:39] It simply can't. So it's an issue for the tournament director to look at after the game. And it then falls under the Code of Conduct regulations. So,

[00:47:56] I'll do this, I'll do this as fast, um, as I can. But, the, the FIH Code of Conduct has… What's going to happen if I do this?

[00:48:12] It doesn't go to the right scene. The, the Code of Conduct has, um, three levels in it. Three degrees of conduct, which is… It's given as examples and guidance so that tournament directors have something that they can see to give them how many, a range of how many matches a player might be suspended for.

[00:48:39] And for level 1, level 2, level 3, it varies from a warning to one match for level 1, and more than that for level 2, and level 3 is obviously quite, quite serious. So I'm just seeing if I can pull up the…

[00:49:03] I can't. So, what this means is that there's a code that says… It's under Level 1 that spitting towards a player or another person, a participant, doesn't have to be a player, uh, is a Level 1 offence. It does not say spitting on. It doesn't require or differentiate between actually spitting on another participant.

[00:49:42] It's if you spit on the ground near somebody, I spite you, or even accidentally. That's a Level 1 offence. But it's not explicit necessarily in level 1. But because it's not enumerated separately in level 2 or 3, the only way that you could move it up to a different level of fence is to call it. Now, a lot of you have shared with me that in your country, criminal laws are such that spitting is a, uh, is assault.

[00:50:22] That's not the case in other jurisdictions. In the U. S., it's simply battery. It's not assault. In Canada, it's not assault. In, you know, so what you have is different cultural understandings and significances that are attributed to that action. Do I think that a one match suspension ban that was served the next day is sufficient for this particular act in this context?

[00:50:51] Absolutely not. Do I think that there's something missing in the Code of Conduct, including the latitude to go for more than that? Yes, I think there is. But that's why things are so fun with rules. I think the one thing that you have to take into account, Jade, is that a tournament director doesn't operate in a bubble.

[00:51:18] So, I'd like you just to take a step back on who you're blaming and think that first of all, he doesn't have backing in the Code of Conduct that makes it very clear what he's able to do. And second of all, it might not be entirely his decision. So just keep that in mind. Okay, um, Ian, you asked a question on the last one.

[00:51:48] Uh, 17th G and E, definition of place on line and behind line, needlessly different between penalty corners and penalty strokes. No, I think it's needed to be different. It's needed to be different because there's a very different level advantage that is conferred to players who can be when there's multiples of them.

[00:52:07] And if they were all able to be on the line instead of behind the line. Being able to see somebody moving early would be absolutely impossible. Behind the line, you've got much more of an opportunity to see that. So, um, you have an interview with Simon M. B. in the next edition. Simon M. B. I don't know which Simon that is, but I'm sure you're about to tell me in that.

[00:52:36] Okay, so those were the most controversial things that happened in the Euros, but there were so many other things. Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to get to them today, because I think I've probably exhausted all the internet that is in the north of England. I used it all up for this, but here's the good news.

[00:52:58] If you're like, oh, I just didn't get enough of this, and I live in England, well, you can come. See me in person. Okay, I'm not scared, but it's gonna be weird because this is what I'm used to. Uh, on the On Thursday, tomorrow, I will be at Timperley, at the Timperley Hockey Club. Next Sunday, I will be at the Boat Railway in Bromsgrove to say hello to all the West Midlands umpires and anybody popping through.

[00:53:31] Like, if you're in transit, you know, from the Netherlands and you're stopping in and you're gonna go over to Ireland, like, stop and come say hi. You don't have to be in any particular association. Uh, FAIRM on the Wednesday. Uh, Ferrum Hockey Club, and then Reading on Thursday. And you never know, there might be a couple more dates to get added, because I happen to have, like, two gaps in my schedule.

[00:53:54] So, there you go. I'm really looking forward to this. It's going to be a lot of fun. And I have three, sort of, hot topics that I am going to share with, uh, some explicit clips, the way that I like to do, because no good umpiring talk should ever happen without clips. And there will be Q& A and hopefully a lot of wine involved.

[00:54:17] So I'm really looking forward to meeting people. If you haven't signed up already, it's free. We just want you to, you know, just swear a blood oath you're gonna come. That's all. You don't have to give money, just your blood. Oath. That's not awkward at all. But it would be great to see you, and go sign up, the links are there, it's all over my socials, I'm going to be posting a lot more in the next coming days, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the first batch of people tomorrow at Timberly.

[00:54:45] So, if you haven't already, by the way, you can do this thing. Nailed it first time. Can you believe that? Oh, yeah. Timberly tomorrow, and David, you are completely missing out. You are completely missing out. You're in the wrong country for once. Okay, I hope you enjoyed it. I hope it was informative and I'm shocked that I didn't have more technical mishaps.

[00:55:11] We will see you next week on What Up Wednesday and I will see several of you around the country in the next coming days. I can't wait. Enjoy the rest of your hockey days. Bye for now.

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