Women’s Junior World Cup – All The Clips | #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 139

📅 Dec 6 19.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

We're through to the cross-over stages of the #WJWC2023 in Santiago, Chile and WOWZERS.

Stick shields, body shields, first hits on PCs, dangerous shots and uses of the stick, intentionally playing the ball of the end line, 5m infringements on aerials and sideline hits… 9 clips in total (a Very Official WUW Record Attempt).

Join in live to get your comments and votes in, but mostly to keep me on time! (Please help?)

See you there!

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⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00:00 Chair Dancing
00:02:57 Topics!
00:13:57 1. Shielding From a Chasing Player?
00:25:11 2. Dangerous Shot
00:37:10 3. Dangerous Use of the Stick
00:44:22 4. First PC High Shot a Hit?
00:57:27 5. What's The Right Remedy?
01:15:35 6. Intentionally Playing the Ball Off the Endline
01:29:00 7. Card for 5m Aerial Infringement
01:37:40 8. Sideline Rolling Ball to 5m Infringement
01:52:23 9. Body Shielding

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

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Transcript

🎶

#WhatUpWednesday Ep. 139

[00:00:00] Been crazy. Just wanna be okay. How can I pick up the pieces when everything breaks with every day, I'm getting older, I feel the weight upon my shoulder. I'm strong enough. I'll rise above. I'm gonna be okay. If I can be anything, I think I'm gonna be me.

[00:00:38] I know I gotta be me.

[00:00:45] First I wanna go, no one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. La la la la la, la la la. La la la la la, I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. Everything's changing, just trying to navigate. Oh, I keep on believing, I'm gonna find my way. With every day, I'm getting older. I feel the weight up on my shoulders.

[00:01:18] I'm strong enough, I will rise above. It's all gonna be okay. If I can't be anything, I think I'm going to be me.

[00:01:30] I know gonna be me.

[00:01:41] I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be.

[00:01:53] I think I'm gonna be me, me, me. I know I gotta be me, me, me. There's nowhere else I wanna go. No one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. I know I gotta be me, me, me. Where else I wanna go? I'm the one else I'd rather be. I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be me. La, la, la, la, la.

[00:02:33] La, la, la, la, la. I gotta be me. La, la, la, la, la.

[00:02:46] Happy What Up Wednesday, Keely Dunn here, FHumpires Third Team, hi! Good to see you. It's gonna be one of those shows. Fast. Action. All the time. Can't wait. Here's our topics. Shielding from a chasing player? Question mark. A dangerous shot. These are all clips from the Women's Junior World Cup. Dangerous use of the stick.

[00:03:09] A first PC high shot on a hit? Question mark. Uh, what's the right remedy? Also. Question mark. Intentionally playing the ball off the inline. Really, these are all questions, but I like saying it sometimes. Card for a 5 meter aerial infringement. What? Sideline rolling ball to a 5 meter infringement. And finally body shielding!

[00:03:30] Yeah, that's what's happening. I'm really glad you're all here, because this is gonna be just bang for buck like you've never seen before. I'm gonna do announcements right now. Get them out of the way so that we can just burn through. I'm going to be on a timer, right? Uh, we've talked about this a few weeks in a row and I would still draw your attention to our friend's, uh, predicament here.

[00:03:56] And if you have some space, Ayanna McClain is hosting. This GoFundThem, uh, for this individual who's got, going through a really, really tough time right now, and, uh, this is to help this person find a safe place to live and get some stability and routine so that they can recover and progress in their life.

[00:04:21] So if you have some room in your holiday budget, for example, to do a little bit more giving, then I would really appreciate you. Uh, stepping through with this. I know this person, uh, quite well, and I would really love to see everything go better for them. But you know what? That's not the only fundraiser we're doing.

[00:04:44] I would like to announce the launch of the Dunn fundraiser with two A's. Okay. Don't get the spelling wrong when you write out this. Now it's broken. You can contribute. You'll get your receipt. I'll get the notification, but the actual, the thing on the page isn't showing updates because I've already donated to myself.

[00:05:06] I did that so I could test it, right? And there it is. So Don Got all of his umpiring gear lifted, whether it was by malicious intent or it was inadvertent. Uh, he had checked his bag when he was at a tournament, and when he went to with his ticket to go pick it up, it was gone. And he lost eight whistles, and all of his kit, and a whole bunch of clothes, and all that kind of stuff, and I mean, we know how crappy that is, that's just are really, like, that's a bummer thing to have happen, so I'm doing a little fundraiser for them.

[00:05:44] We did this for Elle a couple years ago when her car broke, got broken into and all her umpire gear got stolen, and that went off super, super well, and I was really proud of the 13 for stepping up. So, if you'd like to jump into this, please do, and, um, let's get Donna's, all, a bunch of stuff back. He's a med student.

[00:06:07] He doesn't have He's too busy trying to save the world. Okay, let's help him out. Um, some thank yous in order here. Shanna Halloran from South Africa has just joined Yellow. I am so excited!

[00:06:28] Uh, Shanz from KZT, I can't remember the acronym of that. the, of the district in South Africa that she's from, but she's been bitten by the bug and can't wait to get stuck in with the rest of us. So please, if you are a fellow member, yellow member, then go say hi and get her into the watch parties. Cause she's like, what?

[00:06:51] Watch party? Discord? Let's get this going for her. And if you're interested in thinking and thinking about this or team yourself. There's a QR code. Go check that out. Uh, let's see, some congratulations, Mike Farmer. I tried to find a picture, but this trying to find a picture of Mike on the internet is really hard.

[00:07:17] I found one from like 2017 with a whole bunch of other people in it, and he was dressed in a And like dress clothes at a, at a club function. I was like, well, that's kind of a crappy photo. So Mike, send me a photo of you so that I can use it in the future. MQAB panel promotion, congratulations. And also you get, you're part of my control elevator course.

[00:07:39] Because I learned something very significant from you, and I really appreciate all your contributions in the third team. Thanks very much. Congratulations to Vanri Wenter of South Africa, who's a member of our team as well, for winning the Outstanding African Umpire Aiman Amin Award. Along with Sean Rapoport, who's a friend of mine, and, like, we chat and stuff.

[00:08:05] But he's, he's not in our server the way that Vannery is. So more congratulations to Vannery, but also congratulations to Sean. Wraps, as he is called. And let's see, was that everything you need to do? Let me check my Oh yeah, and just, just in case you were thinking about it, it's live. The Control Elevator Course is live.

[00:08:33] And if you pre ordered and you didn't get an email from me saying, Hey, it's live. Go to the Discord server, that's where it is. This is your email saying, hey, go to the Discord server, this is where it is. Sorry, I know, it's just been, it's been chaotic. If you didn't purchase it already, there's a link. I'm really proud of that course.

[00:08:57] I've got a couple of little, I've got a little technical glitch to amend in one of the units. And I tell you, I've been, it's changed the way that I'm watching games myself. And I was watching France Egypt at the Men's Junior World Cup last night, and last night, the night before, blur, and I tell you, I was just Getting so excited because they almost elevated it perfectly, it was so, it's the best I've ever seen, getting, stepping through everything, bang, bang, bang, bang, and up, and down, and in, and oof, and oh, it was, I was just So excited.

[00:09:40] So that replay is up. If you're in yellow, you can watch that and see what you think of all of the decisions that were made in a very, very challenging match by Nazmi and Bevan. And I am going to do a breakdown of that at some point for the control over it. Somehow, I don't know. It's, it's going to happen.

[00:10:02] I have many plans and I have no time to execute any of said plans. And if you are heading into your indoor season as well. You have this resource available to you as well and Indoor Comprehensive. So, this is soup to nuts. It's everything. If you have not been certified before, this is a great resource. If you just need a brush up, I have an updater.

[00:10:29] So, contact me about that because I haven't had a chance to like I haven't put it in the right place as a product yet, but if you want something faster that just sort of gives you the newer things, reminds you of things, if you haven't done Indoor for a few years, like say COVID, pre COVID was when you did Indoor, the updater might be a really good option for you as well.

[00:10:51] But hey, like why not just do it all at once and do an exam and have it all right there. There you go. Okay. That's, that's all I got. That's all I got. We're going to get into it. Let me just see if there's any comments that I've screwed anything up. Moderators, I have moderator chat open in the server in case anything is wrong.

[00:11:12] Simon is going to duck out because, um, he's, yeah, good luck getting through all the clips. Let's see, let me get that sized properly. I know it's going to be something. Hi, Trix, good to see you. And you like the intro music. Thank you. Jolt. Moreno. Good to see you. Uh, what's the name of the intro song? It's called, um, Gotta Be Me by Jillian Whittaker.

[00:11:42] And you can find it on Apple music. So there you go. KZN. Okay. I was close. I knew there was a K and I knew there was a Z. Thank you. Uh, uh, a K and a Z. Thank you, Ian. Appreciate it. Um, you've been trying to Google and sound how to, yeah, it's not super accessible, but it's, it's out there. There you go. Oh, I should have asked you.

[00:12:04] Godders. I should have known. Wait, what? Yeah, we're doing a fundraiser for you. Did you want to see it again? Did you want to see it again? Because here it is. Come on, Don. We're gonna look after you. Don't you worry. I said keeping you posted. Stay tuned. All that stuff. There you go. Um. Back to main. Let's see, Ian's here live, and that's because there's no hockey, because, yeah, frozen pitches.

[00:12:38] There you go. Um, of, of course, and honestly, Dawn, if we get to a point where everything's covered and that sort of thing, I have another fundraiser ready to go. I just don't want to like, if there's too many options, then people get overwhelmed and then they don't do anything because they're like, I can't choose between Dawn and The GoFundMe, fund them from IANA, and then the next one that I'm going to, uh, launch as soon as I can get this, the plug in working on my WordPress site properly.

[00:13:10] Shed's here! Yay! Did you see yourself? I hope so.

[00:13:19] Okay. We're moving. Ready? Clocks. Start. Let's get into it. No! Alrighty, there's a mistake.

[00:13:32] I, I, okay. I'm so mad. We're gonna

[00:13:45] Okay

[00:13:52] Okay. Try this again.

[00:13:57] Stealing from a chasing player?

[00:14:04] What?!

[00:14:10] This is fully operator, guys. Nobody's fault but my own. So, in this game where a lightly colored player was also playing lightly colored player, Um, just scroll back, take a live scroll back, and then catch back up. Trust me, it'll work. Last week again. So, this was, as you can only see from the byline, but not be able to tell from the colours, uh, Netherlands, Australia, and I really wanted to talk about this one.

[00:14:49] Please do go vote right away. Because Uh, I cut out the commentary, but Mace was quite confused as to why this got called not only as a foul, but as a breakdown. Because in his view, the attacker was shielding the ball from the defending player. So I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on that as well.

[00:15:21] Yay! Welcome! Okay, I don't know why my comments are so huge and blocking everything. I don't know what's happening. Let's try to do that and see if that works.

[00:15:42] Okay, we've only got eight minutes so you have to, you have to comment fast. So here's the problem that I have. I thought this was a fantastic call in the moment. I'm like, yay! Breakdown. Card. Excellent. That worked out really, really well. But

[00:16:04] the issue that they might have Oops. Can I I got to I have five monitors in front of me, people. Five monitors.

[00:16:17] And let me slow this down so you can see all of the things. To

[00:16:28] me, clearly, you've got a reach over by an attacker. You also have attacker's stick not on the ball. Those two things are true. You also have defender. behind, physically interfering with the running path of the attacker and the ball carrier.

[00:16:59] And in this moment, you just saw a little sort of back and forth pushing the stick away, but was it also possible that in pushing the stick away, that is a backswing to try to push the ball forward? to a teammate in a push pass. I have a lot of problems with saying that there is some requirement by a ball carrier to make that ball accessible to a defender who is chasing from behind, because at some point the ball carrier Needs to have the ability

[00:17:51] to be able to do and see, she's looking up. She's like, okay, do I have a, do I have a pass? And she's entitled to pull this way, pull that way, pass the ball that way. And none of those. She's not required to have her stick on the ball at that moment.

[00:18:13] There's nothing in the rules that says a ball carrier must have the ball glued to their stick. And in taking any of the natural motions, any of the natural actions that a ball carrier would at the time, their stick can be off the ball. Now, if that defender is, is, In front, in a natural tackling position.

[00:18:35] And the stick is moved over the ball, preventing access, and the stick can still be in contact with the ball, but if the stick is moved over the ball with the purpose of blocking that defender from accessing it, well, I'm glad that we're all staring at this, in the moment, then it makes sense to me. What do y'all think?

[00:18:54] Yeah, and there

[00:19:01] is that physical interference, Rupert, really good point, that, that, that pressure from behind also Knocks her off balance, and she's, she's, she's, she's absolutely getting broken down from behind. And it's the defender's job, if they're going to tackle from a high risk position, to do so cleanly.

[00:19:25] Understanding that that player may at any point move to play the ball off in a direction in front of them. And it's not their job to track somebody who is behind them and say, Oh, I'm sorry, here. Oh, did you, did you want this?

[00:19:44] Keeping it simple, it's a breakdown tackle. Stick this block, but tackler does not appear to get close to playing the ball. Hard to call this That's his luck for Godders, I agree. Dave, definitely a foul by the chasing player, a breakdown. And Tricky, just to check on wording, is there a difference between a stick block and shielding?

[00:20:02] No, not really. Sorry. If I were to be a stickler, as I usually am about language, what we would say is that that's an obstruction. It's just a stick obstruction. A stick obstruction to be committed by a defender or an attacker.

[00:20:28] Okay, so to be completely on point, and so that doesn't throw anybody else off for whom English is not their second language, it is the same foul. Rupert, that was one of the ones that you want to shake the commentator. Well, it's, I mean, it's a valid question, and that is something that is interesting. I don't think it's completely off base, in the sense that there is a stick off the ball, and if you take little pieces of what we look for, for a obstruction, an attacking obstruction.

[00:21:06] Then, that's valid. Stick not on the ball. Stick's not on the ball, and that prevents access to the ball. Yes, that is absolutely true, but that little piece taken out of context and not considered with all the other things. Where is the tackling position? Is there any other bod contact? All of the other contextual cues that we combine in order to make the accurate decision were not there.

[00:21:31] Um, I missed, let's see. Um, oh yeah, like a shave tackle. There you go. She's got a chance, but she comes over top and the very first thing that happens is the defender's stick interfering with the attacker's stick. So what happens after that is all a result of that initial thing. There is the body contact from behind and the stick contact from behind.

[00:21:57] And then any of the blocking, lifting, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Get the first one. Uh, Sebastian, the second attacker looks back down and she realizes the defender is about to play the ball. The attacker moves the stick across away from the ball and starts blocking the defender's stick. Yeah, but. All the other things.

[00:22:15] This is interesting because I only hear, I only, I see this happening in Dutch decision making. And there's something that's sneaking in there, and here's a Dutch player who is very infuriated that she's getting called for this. So I am minding this and I'm thinking, okay, are we missing something? But I don't think so.

[00:22:38] I don't think we're missing the trick on this one. Because that is just What is she What else can the attacker do with her stick? If she wants to make a pass forward, if she wants to dribble to the left, dribble to the right, what What can she do with her stick? Is she required to provide access to the ball to a player who's running behind her?

[00:23:06] I'm repeating myself. The defender's stick is only blocking the attacker's stick. Uh, no shielding of stick, not being on the ball didn't impede the attacker.

[00:23:20] Okay, um, let's see. They'd have to hinder themselves, which is great. That's a spot. Um, especially if they, uh, have just achieved getting past a difficult opponent. Absolutely. Don't think it's right that an attacker always needs to give access. Yep. Because then Oh, they'd have to handle themselves. Okay, so those two comments came in at different times.

[00:23:42] Joel, what do you have? It looks way worse in slow motion. Yeah, but at full speed it does look like every time the attacker gets ready to play the ball stick gets hit. Yep, that's how we see it. Okay, pull. Where are we at? Okay, this is weird because it didn't It should have refreshed the very first clip.

[00:24:02] Shielding from a chasing player. And 87 percent of you, 7 of you were on board with a free hit attack and a card. And then, uh, one of you just wanted a free hit attack. What was the effect? If you believe that was a foul, what was the effect on that play? It wasn't just an accidental, like, skill error that You know, good, good try, but you just missed the ball.

[00:24:30] That was a, I am in a risky position. I'm going to make sure there's a stop here. If I, if I get the ball, fantastic. But if I don't, great. And I see the votes moving around. As we're looking at it, this is a classic breakdown tackle and it has to be treated that way. So just a free hit attack is not enough of a remedy.

[00:24:53] And one person does think that it is a, uh, attacking stick block. And that might have been Sebastian. And that's okay. Alright. Thanks for all your input on that one. Good stuff. Let's move along. Cause we're in a hurry.

[00:25:14] Dangerous shot. Okay, this one was right. Let's see if everything else moves along properly.

[00:25:46] So this was late in the game between these two teams. And, on the whole, as the tournament unfolded, Japan and US were tied in the standings. And a goal difference, a single goal difference, put one of the teams through to the crossovers, to the quarterfinals, and the other team went down. To the crossovers for 9th through 16th place.

[00:26:15] Nine? 9th through 16th place. But it was the U. S. that lost out by one single goal. So, this particular decision wasn't, you know, every decision accumulated into Accumulated? Cumulated? Combined to create the result of the tournament, and you know how I feel about game change decisions. But this was a big one, and I'd like to hear.

[00:26:43] Um, there you go. Um, Alistair, back to the first play, uh, the game is tied with 8 minutes in Q4, would I give a card for that? If it had been Q1, yes, I would give a card for that in Q1. Yes.

[00:27:01] The card I would give for it in Q4 could be a different card. But yes, I would give it right away. And that is part of the control elevator. The umpire signals danger. Yeah, the Don't listen to Dan. Ever. So, yes, she's calling She's calling danger. Danger signal, very clear. And it's something about the distance that she sees.

[00:27:23] A defender took illegitimate evasive action jumping out of the way.

[00:27:31] Okay. Uh, another thing just to note on this is that the, uh, Japan had lost their referral and that's why she, she was about to take the referral and then was like, Oh no, you can't. But not that this is particularly bearing for us, but for Potentially thinking about consultation situations. When should you check with your colleague?

[00:28:00] An instant appeal from a team in a big moment, especially a team that hasn't been giving you grief all game. This is a good time to check. It's a good time just to stop time, and even if you're on radios, it can be a good time to go. to your buddy and have a conversation and just make sure you've worked through the steps properly.

[00:28:28] I'm going to see if I can pull this one up

[00:28:33] so we can have a look.

[00:28:38] And yeah, a lot of, a lot of players don't know what the danger signal is, but that means, oops, am I clicking on the right one? Yeah, there we go. But that's because we haven't taught them. So use it and teach it. A lot of, a lot of umpires are still doing that one. Everybody knows what that one is. Rupert, the closer defender moves into the path of the ball.

[00:28:58] No danger. The second defender is placing himself to stop the ball. No danger. Goal. Okay, um, it's an attacker jumping out of the way, says Jolt. Okay, uh, tricks you don't see legitimate evasive action from the defender. They're only the other attacker getting out of the way which isn't a foul. Okay, and this is the angle that we have a really Good look out.

[00:29:23] So I'm going to slow this right down. Put on the little video pencil. PINCEL! Okay, so we've already had a shot on goal, so we don't have to worry about a hit being a first, being the first shot, and the height of that or anything. And then there's a nice block here from the defender.

[00:29:52] And so now, we've got defender here, defender here. Attackers don't matter. And here comes the wind up. We've got this defender, not in the way. Not in the, not in the line of the ball, that's not a problem. And now we're looking at one of the cues, not the only cue, but one of the cues we would look for is the distance between.

[00:30:21] These two things. Now, remember, we're at a particular angle looking at this, and things have gotten flattened a little bit. This defender is, if we draw backwards, I'd say this is maybe three and a half meters off. Okay, maybe four. Let's be nicer and say that that's about the four meter mark there. And then the ball is being hit.

[00:30:49] I think we're, we're kind of at five meters away. This looks to be around nine meters out. And maybe I'm just justifying and making up a number in my head that way.

[00:31:10] Okay. I, I think you can certainly categorize that as legitimate evasive action. That's totally fair. But what does the defender do in the moments leading up to that? Just

[00:31:28] scroll it to this place. Okay.

[00:31:36] Is that she stays where she is.

[00:31:43] To block space, as well. Now this is slo mo, so all of that looks a little more certain, so let me pull this off and look at the play in real time. Okay, this is still a slo mo here.

[00:32:06] This is real time.

[00:32:18] Um.

[00:32:22] Yeah, and, and, and Ishan, like, she absolutely could have gone for a self referral, and in that moment, that would have been a great choice. Like, why not? It's a big moment in the game, you still have your referral, you don't want to respond to the pressure that the players might be putting on you, but you do want to make sure you get the decision right.

[00:32:48] Um, no legitimate evasive action for Dave, none for Keely. Tricky, I think we already saw that one, Stefan. Kia Ora, good to see you. Goal for Goddard's defender gave the ball to the attacker more than 5 metres away, and no legitimate evasive action. Okay, and there you go. Yeah. Oh yeah, looking at these on your phone, this is going to be very, very healthy for you.

[00:33:10] Um, yes. Um, good shout, Ian, on the self referral. Hi, Harvey! Wait.

[00:33:21] Nice to have you. Uh, the person taking evasive action is the other attacker, but she seems to do enough to get out of the way. But it doesn't matter. You can't cause danger to your teammate. So, any player in Cerise, we're ignoring. Doesn't matter what they do. Um, isn't the second attacker creating danger by running across and blocking the defender's view?

[00:33:43] Let's have a look. I think she's got plenty of time to deal with that. Um, yeah. You'd rather be certain, you'd say goal in the winter, it looks like more than five meters from the view in front of the goal. Yeah, looking back, yeah, I agree. So again, we don't review these because we're looking for whether the decision was right or wrong.

[00:34:09] But by going through the clip very carefully, what we're doing is we're trying to outline all the different factors. What has led up to it? Sebastian rightly having a look at what the other attackers are doing. Is there more danger being created because of the space that's around, the pattern in which players are moving, the distance away the ball is, the speed that it comes at, the height that it comes at.

[00:34:35] What kind of space is the defender attempting to occupy? Are they trying to mark? Are they trying to, um, are they trying to close? Or, are they blocking for the purposes of stopping a shot? All of these things we take into account. And I really appreciate you all going through many of those things in order to see it.

[00:35:00] And legitimate evasive action as well being another one, and Jonathan doesn't see that. For Don, the defender is marking the goal, although not on the line. Yep. No attacker near, so she's just trying to stop the goal. Defender has to be expecting a shot after just giving it away, yeah. I mean, I, if I had done that, I would have either been running out of the way, most likely.

[00:35:21] I would have been doing what that second attacker did and just like running off the end line and, bye! Or I would have tried to run at the ball because I'm safer that way. The closer I get to the impact, the striking point of the ball, the safer I'm going to be. And plus, I'm trying to close. I can close angles.

[00:35:41] I can do all those things. There you go. And. And there you go. What if you give them the goal 2 and let the defending team take a referral, as you believe they still had their SPF? I'm sure if they did, but, but the best way you can do it really is to call the goal and then self refer, right? Because then it's very clear from the video referral process.

[00:36:08] It's like, here's a goal. Let me stop. And we'll have a look at it. Was there a potential third party obstruction like Sebastian pointed out? Was there a potential danger? Can you make sure that I saw the things they need to see? So there you go. Uh, you're sure defender referral would have, yeah, probably not, and you doubt they would have referred it anyway.

[00:36:31] Yep, there you go. Okay, let's have a look at the poll. How am I doing with time? Nobody's, has anybody been praying me yet? I don't know why all of the, um,

[00:36:46] this is supposed to go straight to the correct poll. They are individual URLs. 100 percent goal! Hold the phone. Hang on. Wait. Where is it?

[00:37:04] I love unanimity. Congratulations, we did it. 12. 35. I think I'm behind. Okay. Dave just used the stick! Oh, and the confetti's still going. That's awesome.

[00:37:24] Ahh. The very first game of the tournament. Classic swing and a miss, which is not a thing. It is not a foul to swing and miss at the ball. So let me know what you think. What are we looking for, for this dangerous use of the stick? Holy smokes,

[00:38:04] this is, oops, oops, oops, there,

[00:38:12] yes, it is the morning. You like the quickfire? Okay. I mean, there's nothing wrong with us doing something different every couple weeks, like one week I just do a whole thing on the controller, oh my god, I did that like two weeks ago. Last week, two topics, one hour, bye, it was great. Right? Umpire doesn't have the greatest angle to decide.

[00:38:38] Okay, so, so what is it about the angle that we're looking at to try to make a decision here? Let's see if I can pull this up on my pizza.

[00:38:56] Okay, and I don't know, I actually think, so there's the umpire, and they've got a clear straight lane to see

[00:39:11] what happens in this particular moment. But what are we looking for? In order to determine, because what we're looking for is not whether she swung and missed the ball. That doesn't matter. What we're looking for is danger. So we are looking at things like the distance between the two players. We are looking at whether This attacker, I don't know, nobody had possessions at all at the moment, whether this player in red had to take legitimate evasive action as a result of this player's mistake.

[00:39:56] Anything else? Anything else you can think of that we have to look at?

[00:40:06] And what I really look at in this particular moment is the control with which So this ball comes through,

[00:40:23] okay, there's an edge, I think, off a white player,

[00:40:31] and then just watching what the player in red does, there is no change at all

[00:40:42] in her motion. What do y'all think?

[00:40:47] Let's see. Would we be looking for danger to the opposite? Yes, we would, Chef. So in essence, if there is a swing and a miss, but there's no danger to the opposition to play on. Exactly. Because swinging a miss isn't a foul. It is the specifically called dangerous use of the stick. 9 12? I don't know. Rachel, look it up for me.

[00:41:08] Um, yeah, they should miss, but we aren't here to impose, like, we don't regulate skill. We're not here to award fouls against players who just Like, if you should have received that ball and you missed and it went off your foot, we don't call, you know, we're not calling it because of lack of skill, we're calling it because it disadvantages the opposition.

[00:41:35] If you miss that tackle, if you make a bad choice, we don't call fouls against players who make bad life choices on the pitch. Sometimes we should. If there's a big swing and a miss, let's just, just, let's just call a dangerous use of the stick to make me happy, okay? Um, and that causes legitimate evasive action by the opposition, you'd consider danger or intimidation, you don't see either here play on, okay?

[00:42:00] None for Rachel, sufficient distance between the players, Ian wants a play on, um, maybe a short chat to the player about her responsibilities about use of the stick? Potentially. At this level, I'd say you're kind of Humiliating them a bit, so, like, they're getting their butts handed to them in this game, and they're playing at a level that is, you know, higher than what they're, they're accustomed to being at, so, I would I would have a more empathetic approach to that, not like, Hey, you be careful.

[00:42:35] It would be more like, uh, all right, I get it. Tough game, hey, you know, like, let's just take it easy. Very different approaches, right? One is a, an encouragement of care, and the other is a warning. I don't think she needs to be warned. It's not pretty, but no danger. And Red got attached for six. So a 15 meter restart, potentially.

[00:43:02] Uh, you ponder. Uh, if White felt that the last hit was off red at the point of the missed swing, was trying to fool the other red player into not playing. Uh, nah, I don't think so. I don't think. I don't think that was there. Sometimes poor skills can do what the whistle says. Ernst? Hi Ernst, good to see you.

[00:43:22] Uh, but. Uh, from the coach, but not from the umpire. Yeah, it's not our job. It's not our job. We're trying to promote the best out of them and make sure that safety is there, but we're not there to actually coach them. Let's go to the poll. Oh, don't you dare. Okay. And that's not the right poll either. That's last week's.

[00:43:51] Number three. Dangerous use of the stick, and 100 percent of you of 12 votes play on. Thank you so much for voting, I appreciate that. That is also, hang on,

[00:44:04] it's not firing. Fire, where's my confetti? Oh my goodness.

[00:44:22] I'll blow that one instead. Okay, first PC. High shot, a hit. It is such an ungainly sentence to try to write down when you're trying to make it concise. It just doesn't. Let me know what your thoughts are on this one. We were doing the launch party. I have exceeded my confetti quota. You're absolutely right.

[00:45:02] It's a real shame. I love more confetti. Token confetti for everybody. Yeah.

[00:45:14] And why I have to reset my comments after every single scene change is driving me batty because they're supposed to be persistent. Okay, so last week, or was it the week before, we had an example from the Huff Casa about a Um, and was it Kampong and Gweinschwarze? Little Switzerland, um, where there was a penalty corner injector play on the ball that was given as a goal.

[00:45:59] And our consensus, probably by about 80 percent do I have that right, was that it was a hit. And it was quite similar to this. And I found it really, really interesting that, um, That I, I, I started uncovering something new in my brain about this play because I spent quite a bit of time looking at how far back the players stick.

[00:46:33] came from the ball. And then what was the effect of the motion of the stick on the ball afterwards? Was there a pushing motion where the stick was in extended contact with the ball? Not a momentary contact, but an extended contact with the ball after which the ball was then released. And Mike McDowell and I had an interrupted conversation by interrupted.

[00:46:57] I mean, I didn't respond to him because I ran out of time and, and, um, And life got in the way, um, where we were debating that very point. And I also thought, as I watched this, that, oh, what we don't have is a backswing this way, away from the ball, from that angle. But we, what we do have is the stick being retracted in that direction, back towards the ball.

[00:47:29] That is required in order to change. The direction of this, uh, pathway to such a significant extent. So we're not looking at five meters from here to here, five meters, over 50 centimeters in that direction, but 50 centimeters back this way, which then swings around to send the ball at the goal. That would be sufficient backswing in order to make a hit for me.

[00:47:59] What do y'all think?

[00:48:03] The height is only on a hit. Was that a hit? That is the question, absolutely. And was this not the second touch? It, it doesn't, it was the first. Shot at goal. It was the, the, the, just because the, the ball is contacted at the top of the circle and passed, even if it's passed by use of a hit, from the top to the injector spot, that is not a shot at goal.

[00:48:28] The intention of the player is to pass that ball and it's not going on goal. So it's not a shot at goal. It doesn't fulfill the definition. Only one hit here and it's high. And hi being, um, no, I, and this isn't the point. Um, I, I, I'm not trying to highlight inexperience or anything like that. These were the best learning moments.

[00:48:51] And this is a great example of a call that I thought was absolutely spot on and that a lot of people aren't going to agree with because they're not going to look at the same factors necessarily that I do.

[00:49:06] Right, so with Rupert, uh, with his new knowledge of indoor rules, and you would say that the second player hits the ball, and let's be really specific, what is it that goes into a hit? So, I think Ian above here, saying a slap hit is a hit, yeah, that's, but that's circular. What makes a slap hit a hit? What is it about it?

[00:49:28] And it's not? Hand position, uh, a split grip, or hands together at the top, or hands together in the middle, like all of those things could be a hit, or they could be a push. Probably poorly executed in many cases, but that is not what makes something a hit.

[00:49:54] Yeah. And, and that's, and that's one of the interesting things, Tricky, you're pointing out about that rule is that it is not subject to danger. It's not subject to, well, I mean, well, advantage, it's, it's just, it's an absolute rule. It is a line that they've drawn in the sand. And this is what happens when we don't apply principles like advantage and danger, uh, to our rules is that we get something like this, that we think, shit, that should just be a goal.

[00:50:23] Like it's good skill. Nobody was hurt. Like, what's the problem? And people watching it would say, we don't get what the issue is. It's an absolute rule. So if it qualifies as a hit, regardless of whether we want it to be a goal or not, it's a hit. And it is a disallowed goal. The fun part is, uh, Godders, maybe this is what you're pointing out, is that the replay and the TV direction and what.

[00:50:53] Mr. Strange is talking about, uh, or Charlie, actually, sorry, it was Charlie on this one, is that for the next five minutes, it was shown as still being a goal. But I knew immediately from Vicky's whistle that she had called it off because she didn't use a goal whistle. She used a no, no, no whistle, very different tone.

[00:51:16] And when you look at the reaction of the coaching staff on the bench, they're not like really happy. And I know that at times, The Japanese can be a subdued people, but that is not what's happening here. They saw immediately that the goal had been called off.

[00:51:35] We talked about this last week. This one's much clearer. Yeah. Um, I think it's right on the same. The same lane. And for Graham, that is free hit defense, free defense for Godders. Hey Gregor! Just cause I'm excited to see you live. Good to have you. First glance it looks like I have not sure the backswing exceeds the magical 50 centimeters.

[00:51:58] And that's what I was looking for and that's why I talked about the angle that we're studying it from. That if we, if we take the camera and we're like, oh does the stick move 50 centimeters from here across? But if you account for The stick actually coming back towards the end line and then coming through

[00:52:24] and let's see Harvey's got a free defense. Shan, she does bring the sting back, but it could be a push, not a slap. So what we look for for a push, let's go to the rules. Um, oh my god, we're on the right page. Look at that. Moving the ball along the ground, which isn't super valid, um, in this case because a push or a Scoop or flick could be permitted as well.

[00:52:55] So let's take the ground part out. Um, moving the ball using a pushing movement of the stick, circular, not very helpful. After the stick has been placed in contact or close to the ball, when the push is made, both the ball and the head of the stick are in contact with the ground. Again, In contact with the ground is not helpful, but there's this notion that there's contact and not just an impact.

[00:53:23] And that is what, that's why hits are so powerful, is because all the momentum is created, okay, physics people? All the momentum is created because the, the pendulum motion and the energy of the swing contacts the ball and the ball isn't pushed away by the stick. It, it literally springs off. Can somebody, can somebody smarter than me physics that in public?

[00:53:54] Is there actually a backswing or does, I'm, there we go. Does the stick just move forward to get contact?

[00:54:06] I think that this is a more narrow, I think this is closer than the one we looked at last week. I think the one last week was very clear, but I do believe that there is enough backswing here that it is not. You thought, oh, I should have said that's a line on the backboard. It's a line in imaginary plane that extends up from the goal line.

[00:54:35] 360, 4, 460 millimeters. I might be tired. Um, it's not reflecting off the stick, but being hit as the stick swings back more than 50 centimeters. Okay. I might not be understanding you properly there, but, and for Gregor, when he sees it from a different angle. Yep.

[00:55:00] So understandable. Oh boy. There's lots.

[00:55:06] Yes. I'm aware. But what, what does a swing involve? A swing involves something being anchored by a fulcrum going in one direction and then coming back that way. In common parlance, backswing. Backswing and follow through. Otherwise it's not a swing, it's just a movement. Okay? And it's the energy that's imparted by the gathering of gravity, blah blah blah blah blah, physics, and checking through.

[00:55:45] I'm, I am sorry, I'm so inarticulate today. I got nothing. I got nothing. Um,

[00:55:55] if it, if it wasn't a hit, if, yeah, she hadn't put so much force in it, I think she still would have scored. Goalkeeper was completely out of position. And she could, well, I mean, she could have scored in many different ways, and we can slide indoors it, so let's not. On the point about strict rules, if you follow safe hits, then there would be more hits from the top of the circle, that's why we have a strict rule here.

[00:56:20] Yeah, I get it. Okay. So there you go. For you, no backswing at all, but still hit. I'd like to know how you, how you find a hit without a backswing. How do you, like, I can't, I can't imagine it. Okay, how's this? Give me something. A hit occurs when the ball and the stick meet with such force that the ball rebounds off the stick due to deformed elasticity of the ball during the movement of the stick.

[00:56:51] I love it. I love it. I don't understand it, but I love it. Let's go to the poll. But let's go to the actual poll and see what you have voted.

[00:57:11] And that's 16 people, 94 percent want a free hit defense and one person wants a goal. And I know who wants the goal and it's Ernst. Sorry, Ernst. I get it. I think my music turned off. Topic five, 1256. Let's see what we're doing. Oh, this is the big one folks. This is the big one. The marquee cliff. You

[00:57:47] will have seen this on the socials, where a whole bunch of people. Got this right. So in the poll you can vote for the remedy to apply to the American player and the remedy to apply to the English player. So just take two votes. Don't, don't like say the English player can get a green and a 10 minute yellow and a red.

[00:58:09] Like just pick one for each player and then we will add it up.

[00:58:18] I can't believe there's 40 people watching. Thank you very much and go ahead and yeah. Do that thing. Like and, like and subscribe. Despite my inarticulateness, inarticulacity? Inarticulosity? Is that a thing?

[00:58:51] Any movement of the stick towards the ball as a hit could be from an original, originally stationary position. Stop the ball and push it or hold the stick still and tip it.

[00:59:07] Yeah, I get it. That would be a really strict definition, requiring the stick to start in contact with the ball, but the rule definition says close to. In contact with or close to. So, we don't get to, we don't get to require, unless the rule has changed and the definition has changed, we don't get to require that the stick starts in contact with the ball.

[00:59:30] That's why there's ambiguity! Of the fulcrum, as the starting point, could still be a hit. Let's make that word a thing. Inarticulosity? I agree. Should be.

[00:59:46] Um, yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay, if you move the stick forward off the fulcrum as the starting point, it could still be hit. It could be, but it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder.

[01:00:10] But I see what you I see what you're saying. That's actually a good point. Okay, Godders, red card for England for a non play related retaliation, yellow card for USA for the trip. Duly noted, sir. And for you, is that a yellow or a, or sorry, a five minute or a ten minute yellow?

[01:00:36] Thank you, I don't understand what this physics means. I did want physics, but I, um, let's see. Uh, Ian, yellow, five minute for the trip, retaliatory fence is a red card. Tristan, at what point is the Guinness and is this still just a pool game? This is a pool game because the crossovers started yesterday, um, and this part was today.

[01:01:08] Red card for England all the time, every day, twice on Sundays, says Ernst. And let's see, once we get the Let's take the comment off. So, here we are, we're at uh, quarter two, and two minutes left. It's 2 1 US over England, and I mean, what the hell, I can go look at the parts. And it was USA vs England. So

[01:01:52] as I take notes in the game, I always note the cards and the times that I think cards should have been given. Previous to that moment, there had been a green card to the US at 9. 20 for something that I either Looked away from or couldn't see.

[01:02:15] So for Steve, that's a five minute, and a five minute for Rupert. And to put words into their mouths, I think for both of them, the reason that this isn't just a, without any repetition in the game, and not particularly impactful. So if you use RDI framework, no repetition, not really a high impact, it's in the middle.

[01:02:37] It's like near the center, there's lots of players around, all that kind of stuff. But it's the danger. It brings the player to ground. Having your ankle, you know, your leg pulled out from underneath you like that can, can be quite dangerous. Uh, Shan, you think the blue player should have been dealt with?

[01:02:58] Yep, she looked at the red player first and that led to the bigger issue. Um, possibly send them off with a 10 minute yell. Duly noted. But I'm gonna say no. Alistair, a hit is a collision between the stick and the ball. Everybody's still hung up on the, on the hit definition. I like that. Come into the server and, and, like, let's have a text discussion about this point.

[01:03:22] Cause that'd really help me out. Push this prolonged period with the balls and the sticker together. Yep. But this is very formal and wouldn't require, uh, a backstab. Yeah. You initially thought 5 minute USA, 10 minute for England. But the, from the comments, you believe Brad. So what is it about the comments that are swaying you?

[01:03:41] What is it? Hi Simon! Red card for England. Um, I think a 10 minute USA is reasonably dangerous because of the high level of dangerosity. Did USA get any card here in the game? No, they did not. They did not. Okay, so for me. Oh.

[01:04:06] For me, no. Just factually speaking,

[01:04:13] okay, in slow mo, I think that the actions of the Why is that frozen there?

[01:04:26] Not what I was expecting. Okay. So, the actions of the American player are, she gets, she gets dispossessed, unexpectedly, and recklessly leaves her stick in, and catches the foot. I would not have been surprised with a 10 minute yellow card, but a 5 minute yellow at this moment in the game, I think, yes. But absolutely a 5 minute yellow card for that.

[01:05:01] And then for the England player, that is an act of violence outside of the game. She sat up. Let's see if I can pull it back to this moment.

[01:05:16] Okay. She's down on the ground. She turns around. She sees the player. After she's fallen, she looks at her. The ball is nowhere close to it. It's gone past her and she swipes her stick at her ankles. This is very reminiscent of a red card that I gave to a Brazilian player who smacked a Bermudian in the back of the Cavs.

[01:05:38] Not with a particular amount of venom. We didn't, wasn't gonna crack this. A tough as nails. Defenders, you know, leg bones or anything like that. The ball was nowhere in play. It is violent. It is unacceptable. The real problem that I have with this whole moment is that if anybody, anybody thinks that this isn't deserving of a yellow card in a women's game, but would give a red card in a men's game, let's have words.

[01:06:07] I don't believe in reverse sexism. And if this had happened in a men's game, and that wasn't given as a red card, and that player comes back on the field, We're gonna see shit go down, okay? That is absolutely asking for trouble. And the whole point of a red card is to remove a player who should not be afforded the privilege of continuing to participate in that match because they have endangered another player.

[01:06:35] And for everybody's safety, including their own, they need to be removed. And that is the only way that you can keep everybody safe. Okay? The red card isn't just to punish one player. It is the safety of every other player. Okay? So there are two possible answers to this scenario. Five minute yellow and a red.

[01:07:07] Ten minute yellow and a red. That's it. Those are the only answers. Let's look at the poll. Let's look at the poll. Oh, it worked. And let's see. We have 5 people have gone with a 5 minute yellow card, and 2 for a 10 minute, and then we've got England with a 5 minute yellow, nope, 10 minute yellow, nope, red card.

[01:07:34] Red card for England, no questions. That's just it.

[01:07:41] Sorry. Sorry, Innocent.

[01:07:47] The deliberate off the ball danger comments 10 minute yed. No, it's not off the ball danger, it's violence. VIOLENCE. Okay? We have to stop thinking about sportsball. They have a different paradigm. Two footed tackles, whatever bullshit they do in that sport, doesn't apply to ours. But you know what we don't do?

[01:08:11] Is swing our sticks at people when the ball is nowhere near. And use our stick as weapons.

[01:08:21] Um, you see the retaliation, but a bit skeptical about giving that mentality label. Such tackles happen in the field. Um, and don't rise to the level of violence. Inclined to see it as a breakdown. No, the ball's gone and she knows it. That's not breaking, she's not trying to stop. Stop the player from reaching the ball.

[01:08:43] She's mad. She's mad that she's been pulled down to the ground in a dangerous way. That absolutely happened.

[01:08:54] Yeah, no, no worries. Um, may have accidentally hooked the stick, but it was the yank. Ah, good one. Good one.

[01:09:08] There you go. Uh, Bruce, watching it back, the USA player's actions look deliberate with danger starting to think both red. No, it's not. It's not. both red because she literally, in the second, in that second, she had just been dispossessed and she just recklessly left her stick in. We don't give red cards for reckless danger.

[01:09:28] We just don't.

[01:09:32] We have a dangerous sport. We have balls and sticks, okay? But what we do give red cards for violence. I can't say this any more clearly.

[01:09:51] There you go. It can be very dangerous that ended your season in that case. Here, I'll just run this back while I'm going through all the comments to try to persuade you. I am shaking you by the backs of the necks, the scruff on people. Come with me on this. This is really important. This has to be something that we can be in consensus about.

[01:10:20] Smiling or not, yeah, I think we can treat it the same way. Do we start with play with, uh, free hit? I, I don't know. I don't know. I don't care. 99 problems. Okay, this is a good question. Was further discipline given after the match? So, in any instance like this, the tournament director, the technical director, whichever way you want to describe them, will absolutely look at everything and then make a decision as to whether there is going to be supplementary hearing, which would then lead to potential further discipline.

[01:10:59] There, I, all I know is that there was a hearing. I don't know what the result was. Because I didn't see

[01:11:08] anything up until two days ago, which is, this happened on the first. So, three days after the match, nothing had been put up on the website. So, let's see if I can quickly

[01:11:26] I will just double check.

[01:11:39] So, the FIH does, sometimes, publish important documents related to the tournament, and no, the official documents, and I'll just give you the, I'll just put the link in the chat here that you can see, that is where notices of the hearing would go. Now, in contrast to that,

[01:12:13] I'm going to show you what the official documents look like from the Pan Am Games that just wrapped up and we did cover. At least one instance of ill discipline. If I'm not counting, oh, maybe it's actually on the Panem games. And on the PAF site for the Panem games, there is a full listing of all

[01:12:50] the documents that were there. I can't find it right now. There's only so much I can do live. Including the notice of the hearing for the Chilean player in the semi final when he came in and headbutted the Argentinian celebration twice from behind. Yep. It was a spectacular foul by the American players as Ernst came over the five minute, but uh, too, too much danger, too much danger for a green, I think.

[01:13:31] Yep. You thought you looked she looked back and deliberate rather than recklessly No. I it in what time? Look at it in real time. Looked back, she was in line with her. No. Sorry. We have to

[01:13:56] Early whistle could have avoided the retaliation. Um, potentially. Remember, we're watching it again and again on slow motion. It's, it's slowing down our reference. We're seeing things. I think it's appropriate to judge the players as actions is very intentional, very deliberate, but the, the, but the Americans are just, it's a lot faster than that, that's there.

[01:14:29] Okay. I hope that's compelling. And if you don't fully agree, I want you to give it more thought and consideration. Because one of the problems we have in the women's game is that we don't prepare ourselves mentally for these instances. This was a surprise. And because it's a surprise We don't know what we would do in that situation.

[01:14:56] We don't mentally rehearse it. Your pre match chat can involve things like, Okay, let's imagine that this thing happens. Aliens land, and one of the players gets taken over and possessed by an alien, and then she swings her stick. What are we gonna do? It's like you're gonna red card her because the alien is dangerous.

[01:15:16] And the alien needs to be removed from the pitch just like the player does. Even though it's not the player's fault. Because you're doing it for the That was the weirdest analogy I think I've ever made. But there you go. And you gotta be brave. Absolutely. Okay. Six! Intentionally playing the ball off the end line.

[01:15:39] This one's really fun.

[01:15:46] This is Canada and Germany, Canada and Red.

[01:16:02] Let me know what you think. In the moment, would you restart with a 23 metre restart, or would you restart play with a penalty corner?

[01:16:19] We do have to take gender and card notions out of the game. Absolutely spot on, step on.

[01:16:34] And yeah, it'll take some time. You're right. But it's already taken way too long. We're on our third wave of feminism now, folks. Let's get with the times. Safety is safety is safety. For both genders. We're too focused. Too focused on what it means to that one individual player.

[01:17:09] So, in the moment, commentary, and you can see the umpire here is just sort of like, yeah, I get it. But I'm going with this 23 meter restart. I believe, and y'all may agree or disagree, that the Canadian player is actually trying To put the ball off the German player's foot in the moment, because that's a very common tactic at this moment in time.

[01:17:41] Unfortunately, what that meant, because she was in front of the German player and facing her end line, the ball was sent off. Should this still be treated as intentionally playing the ball off the end line? What do we do? We go through the factors. We don't just say The ball was only going one way, oops!

[01:18:03] Because that's Because we don't live in a multiverse, so the ball only goes one way. We look at the direction the player was facing. We look at the force with which the ball was played. Was the player in good balance? What direction did the stick move? Where were any other players that were involved? Was the outcome there better?

[01:18:35] Then what would have happened had they taken a different course of action? This is an anomaly that, again, isn't on my list of factors. So we had the play, uh, from the Seltzer Ninja Horror Cup, where the player dove To try to sweep the ball and stop it from going off the sideline and actually hooked it with his reverse and sent it off his own end line.

[01:19:08] Nobody around him, absolutely nobody whatsoever, and the umpire called that as a penalty corner. And if you isolate just a couple of the factors, you could argue that's a correct call, but when you take everything into account, including what was the result he was trying to avoid, he was actually clearly trying to keep it in play instead of it going out for a sideline against his team, ended up making it worse, but by playing it off the end line, that would never have been better than what he stopped from happening.

[01:19:43] So that was a new addition onto the list.

[01:19:50] Um,

[01:19:54] I mean there's, there's no question that the manner in which she played the ball was fully intentional. But, do we take into account what she was actually trying to do and utterly failed to do?

[01:20:14] Or, do we say You're taking that chance. If you're going to send the ball hard, if you're going to send the ball with that degree of force, in an attempt to get a foot, but you miss because you're not good enough, and the player moves their foot out of the way, is it the right remedy to restart with a penalty corner?

[01:20:42] Um, well, the rule for everybody is whether it's intentionally played off the back line. In this case, she's aiming for the foot.

[01:20:53] Red team's defending there. It's a PC for Ernst. Uh, Rupert, you'd also judge this like you judge intentional fouls. If you intentionally take the risk, it might go over the end line. There we go. So now we're shaping into the language that I prefer using when we talk about intentional fouls. No, this isn't a foul.

[01:21:12] This is simply a way that we restart play after something happens intentionally. But we can still apply the rubric. But to what extent? But let's apply it. Reckless as to the results.

[01:21:29] The 23 meter restart is proportional to the disadvantage created by the ball going over the line, end line in this case.

[01:21:43] Stefan, good balance on red, the push was to the line, you think you might be right about the foot, but it missed, failed execution on the move, was intentional, so a penalty corner for you. Alexander Taylor, hi. Reckless, because it doesn't look like she's close to White's feet. Finn, poor attempt at hitting the attacker's foot, you'd call it an accidental intentional.

[01:22:02] Backline, it's hi, Ms. Khyberport. And that is another. Aspect, the risk of how defenders play the ball, because if you know that if you're trying to do something else and you, you see this happening quite frequently where a defender will try to help tackle the ball off a defender's foot and get the free hit.

[01:22:26] But if the directionality is, ah, well, if I miss the foot, it's only gonna go out for a 23 meter and that's fine, then you have a different decision making rubric around what the defenders do. It's a PC for Graham. You can't judge that the intention is to hit a foot. Okay, to you it's taking the chance of hitting the foot, or getting the ball out of trouble in the back one.

[01:22:54] Okay? In a sense, the red player's intention wasn't to play the ball out, but to get a foot. So you'd start with a restart. 23 meter hit. So, innocent and grave are like, say the same thing, but get you completely opposite conclusions.

[01:23:10] And there you go, Jonathan. Is your comment about missing the foot, is that not judging the skill? That's a very good point. I haven't stated either way what I believe in this case. I hope, I hope you all have picked that on that because I haven't. I'm trying to flesh the argument out. While she looks like she intended to play the ball, um, she missed and therefore it should be a penalty corner!

[01:23:39] Anthony Trotman, go!

[01:23:44] Uh, do we allow intentional forcing of fouls?

[01:23:49] Yes, we do. We do. Manufactured fouls. Went out of the rulebook quite some time ago. 15 years ago, I think? 16? Something like that. I'd have to look back. Godders, if she wanted to intentionally play the ball off the sideline, it was easier to do. That's a really good point. I like that. That's something I hadn't considered.

[01:24:17] I mean the sideline is right there, I could have just popped it off.

[01:24:30] Is this gonna go to the poll?

[01:24:34] Stream decks broke. Let's see. Let's see what

[01:24:41] the vote was. Six of you want the 23 meter restart, nine of you want penalty corner.

[01:24:53] This is truly one of the trickier ones that we've reviewed in a very, very long time for me. And it has nothing to do with the teams involved. Um, I

[01:25:11] After going back and forth with all of the different possibilities. All the sidelines there. If she wants to hit the foot but fails, she should get basically penalized for that. But is that penalizing for a skill? If she wanted to hit the foot, that should be an exemption for being penalized from that.

[01:25:30] Therefore, it should be a 23. Like, taking all those things into account. If I'm undecided still at the end of the day, then you gotta opt for the 23 meter. stuff.

[01:25:45] Hi Benno. She could have played that ball off the sideline. Well, but having other options isn't, if you go through my, my factors and you are on the server and I keep copying and pasting and linking to the Ask FHU where I list out all of the things that we should look at when considering intentionally playing the ball off the end line.

[01:26:12] And. Having other options isn't one of them, because that's just the opposite side of the it's only going one way argument, which I think is not a very good argument at all.

[01:26:33] It's a hard sell.

[01:26:38] It's really about our definition of intentional and what it's based on. It says Stefan is, in the process, intentional at foot or outcome over the end line. Well, and this is why It's difficult to apply the same recklessness to the results, to this, as we do with fouls.

[01:27:04] Because this isn't a foul, this isn't considered, it's not supposed to be considered a breakdown play. It would be so much easier if they would just make it a foul. But it's not. It's not. And maybe they never intended it, us, to go through all these. These mental gymnastics and, you know, they, the nebulous body of people throughout history who have contributed to the rulebook.

[01:27:38] Um, playing the ball off the sideline, we would table the attack to pick that ball very quickly. Yup. And the red player would be, have a lot of tough maneuvering back. Don you agree with Steve? We can argue for days what intentional is, but just measuring in terms of impact. Also, as Sebastian said, a 23 is enough.

[01:27:57] And that's, that's widget, widget, like, it's right in the corner and that's another factor. Oh god, I had forgotten about that. Another factor that we look at is the distance away from the goal that this happens. A ball that gets pushed off the end line like that when it's right beside the goal. Well, you're gonna put a lot of more import into that than one that is way off into the corner like this.

[01:28:27] Don't judge the skill. Don't judge the dumb move. To go for the back line instead of, um, intentional of the But, but did she intend to put it over the back line or did she intend to put it on her foot? Yeah. So I actually came into this thinking PC. And then after listening to all of your great arguments, I made a 23 meter restart.

[01:28:58] Isn't that fun? Thanks everybody.

[01:29:04] Card for 5 meter aerial infringements. Oh my gosh. Do we not just, have we not been waiting for one of these? They happen so seldomly.

[01:29:24] And Ernst, don't you worry, I'll be getting to all the bells and plays in Malaysia and looking at your son's reactions. From there.

[01:29:39] So, this did result in a green being given, note the time of the game,

[01:29:54] and such like that.

[01:30:04] And let me know what you think. Belgium is up 3 2, quarter 4, 8, and a bit left. It's gonna be fun. Oops.

[01:30:18] It's been good hockey already. Oh, my goodness. I am, I am on the struggle bus with the comments. Here we go.

[01:30:32] For Bruce, it's only a lack of skill. Reckless would be taking action, not having to care for the results. Okay, they have a clear intention for foot and expected to accept the errand skill. You know, you've, you've said that really well. You've said that really well. Because you agree with me. I appreciate that comment.

[01:30:48] No, I'm just kidding. But no, that is a really, I like how you've separated out taking an action without any care for the result. Yeah, Stefan's still talking about the last one. Come on, move on, move on, it's 129 people and I've got two more to go.

[01:31:16] Anyway, okay, I'll just make this really easy. Absolutely love this card. I was so excited when it happened because in a lot of places A lot of jurisdictions where people are struggling with the notion. Um, I wonder if I just screwed up my sound.

[01:31:39] All of a sudden my sound turned off.

[01:31:50] Can everybody hear me? Are we okay? My alarm went off on my phone. Great attacking card for Rupert, despite the Indian player slightly miscontrolling it, the Belgian was flying in, whether it was controlled or not.

[01:32:11] I do know that. If I lock this overlay though, but I'm going to a different scene every time.

[01:32:22] Let's see what happens. You're looking for repetition. Are you looking for why? Um, you'd be looking at green card. You don't see any danger or impact. How many times does this player come within five? I think impact is significant. Quarter four, eight minutes left. Belgians up one goal. This is obviously a bit of a quick break.

[01:32:47] There's a ton of space behind the Indian player. So, impact. That alone. Is enough. There you go. Card is a breakdown, especially given the time of the match.

[01:33:05] No, that's not how it works, Anthony. Not yet. We are not penalizing, or the rule doesn't allow for the first touch to be the only touch.

[01:33:22] Okay? It's not from the first touch are they allowed. It is, it actually says controlled and on the ground. Opposing players must allow The receiver, the initial receiver, to play the ball, controlled and on the ground. So no, this is, this is a breakdown. And this is much easier to call than a player who intentionally has controlled the ball, but isn't playing it on the ground.

[01:33:54] And it's the issue of control, what constitutes control. And at this level, that player still doesn't have control of this ball right now. Like, she's trying to control it in this moment, and failing. The only caveat is the player started to move into the space of the attacker before the ball arrived. Um, she did that too.

[01:34:20] Impact is significant. High impact for Bruce. Low, uh, for position, no danger, repetition. There wasn't any repetition. The fact that I was able to pick this out as, like, one of the first times I've seen cards given in the middle of the field, and it's so, sorry, getting back to the point that I started to talk about and then got distracted, scrolled out, out, at Um, oh, and my scroll button doesn't work.

[01:34:50] People who try to argue against giving team penalty upgrades inside the 23 or inside the circle for intentional infringements of the 5 meter area before the ball has been controlled, I don't speak for them. Before it's been controlled, say, well, if it happens inside the, you know, between the 23s, are you giving a card?

[01:35:14] I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And we're really shit at it. Like we're really bad at giving those cards. We're very good at banging in an upgrade and we don't like giving cards. And this is because our understanding of what is. That's a breakdown. What is reckless is to the result. It has to catch up with the evolution of the skill as we move forward.

[01:35:40] We are always lagging behind. I wish we weren't, but we do. We lag behind with new skills, new calls, all that sort of thing. And then we finally realize, ah, yeah, actually this is when it's actually reckless. We get it now, five years later. Okay.

[01:36:01] Yeah. Should've card.

[01:36:08] Um, there you go. You get its last quarter with one goal in it, but it doesn't look like a breaking counter. But no, it, but it, so if you watch more of hockey at this level, the amount of space that's in front and look at all of the, there are six Belgian players in line or behind that ball. Okay. If the Indian player can exploit that space.

[01:36:37] That's behind. That's a huge numerical advantage. Okay. That is impact. You were going to say the same thing. I don't know it was what, but controlled on the ground. So you see it. Okay. So why a green card, not just a free hit? Because it's reckless as to the result of breaking down play. She knew. Okay. Like she knew.

[01:37:02] She comes in. She doesn't even look up when the whistle goes. She's like, yeah, yeah, I know. And that's like, oh. Yeah, she knows, she knows why.

[01:37:15] Um, Belgian player, new. Head down, running. Yep, very good. Okay, pull. Do

[01:37:26] do do do do. We're almost there, gang. We're almost there. All right, 12 of you on the card bus. Good to see. One of you just wanted the free head attack. Go change your vote. I'm bullying you into it.

[01:37:44] Hey, this is almost a bit more of a rhetorical, but I've been talking about this. This was one of my Umpiring Rhapsody topics. Listen to the cheers. It was about the evolution of how players are playing. Sideline gets going, wow, thats wasn't five. She wasn't five ever three hits in that passage of play.

[01:38:14] So please do let me know about how you feel about the manner in which the ball was restarted on the sideline. And Anthony, like, it's, it's your prerogative to disagree, but every time this gets called against you and your team, you're going to have to realize that they're making the right call. So even if you don't want it to be correct, it is.

[01:38:43] And as long as the consensus of the community. is on that side. That's how it goes.

[01:38:54] Okay. Player able to recover. So, uh, Ernst, I locked this and it didn't happen. The fact that a player is able to recover after initial miscontrol should factor if it's hard or not. Um, yeah, I'm not sure what that means.

[01:39:15] Yeah, exactly. So, Shannon is alluding to a point that's part of my control elevator course that I learned from my umpiring Rhapsody tour and Mike Farmer who got promoted to MPUA, uh, B Panel, and who is a high level coach, said the problem is that if we don't penalize breakdowns with more than just the foul, we are not repairing the damage of players who are playing without that sense of fairness.

[01:39:54] And we have to make reparations. I absolutely agree.

[01:40:04] So, free hit defense, it's not a correct retake. Also free issue is at least five.

[01:40:13] This is interesting, Ernst. I wouldn't have expected you to want umpires to get super picky about how balls are played off the sideline. Is there any question as to where five meters is away from this ball?

[01:40:30] And why is it that we would need the ball to be stopped on the line in order for that to be legitimate play of the ball?

[01:40:43] As long as the ball is played on the sideline. What is the difference between pushing it up to the line and pushing through the line? When you take into account that what we're deeming with five meters is whether they have the ability to do, to use that five meter space.

[01:41:20] That is the purpose of the rule. The purpose of the rule is not to force an attacking player to come to a dead stop with the ball. The purpose of the rule. is to define clearly so that everybody knows where five meters is. Is there any question as to where five meters is? Ernst thinks that the defender is five meters away

[01:41:46] at the moment that the ball is played over the sideline.

[01:41:56] This does not matter for me. And if you're watching the top level,

[01:42:05] all of the top teams are taking a more fluid approach with the sideline balls. And It's being allowed in situations where it does not disadvantage the opposing team. So, play with me here. If this is a legal way of playing the ball, you're not going to get all picky about the balls being played while it's off the pitch because you're able to split hairs like that.

[01:42:32] Does the fact that the ball is played through the sideline disadvantage the defender? Is she caught closer to the ball? Is there any confusion about where her five meters is?

[01:42:54] But, but it's, it gives her an advantage of what? Being able to camouflage where five meters is? Being able to go faster, but the speed of the play is not the point.

[01:43:15] It's obvious that the sideline ball's been taken, uh, to everybody on the pitch. Let the kids play. She didn't stop the ball, so, okay. You start again on the line, is that an option? Taking a restart is an option. Is it a good option?

[01:43:36] No issue, issue with that umpire call, not five for Ian. In this case, it's clear where the ball's been taken and where the five meters is. So dead stop not required. Question is whether that's five meters from the side or not. I agree. That is the question. That is the question. Clear stopping motion on the ball.

[01:43:55] Very close to where the ball went over, play on for you. So you like, you're still looking for a stopping motion, but you think it's there. And whether it's exactly on the line or not exactly on the line is, isn't the important thing. Black is about seven meters and had stopped and ready to defend play on.

[01:44:14] Finn, when the attacker plays the ball, even if it was off the pitch, the defender was still on the dotted line, no foul for you, and that's it. So can we just, can somebody, I was supposed to do this, I think, I think during the watch party, I noticed this and didn't have a conclusive answer.

[01:44:48] Failed dimensions. Okay. Oh, I hate this. Where's the chart? There it is. I can't see this very well. This is very small.

[01:45:08] So the full width is A, and then we know that it's 14. 63 plus 5. So it's 19. 63 is exactly where the dotted line is.

[01:45:30] So A, if A is 55 meters, and we have that,

[01:45:40] and having that gives us 22. 5 meters. So from the middle of the goal, 22. 5 meters. And so I need to write this down

[01:45:57] because, because public math's

[01:46:03] just not good enough at this. Also, it's really hard when you're trying to think. 22. 5 minus 19. I have no music anymore.

[01:46:30] So there's a 2. 9 meter difference.

[01:46:42] I'm going to go back to your stuff because I'm just getting myself confused. The speed of the play is the point that gives the advantage here. No, it's not. It's not. Sorry. That's just an assumption that we've always internalized.

[01:47:04] When a player is taking a quick self pass, Ernst, the You know, we don't care if the player is in full flight, puts the stick over the ball momentarily, does not interrupt their run whatsoever, but then puts the stick back and continues playing. What we need to know is where was the self pass taken from so that we know where 5 is.

[01:47:28] The point is not to stop them or slow them down. We're trying to get out of their way, Ernst, for once. For once, we're trying to get out of their way. And you want us to get in their way. I don't understand. I'm so confused. So that, so that defenders know when the ball has been taken. Exactly. So they can gauge.

[01:47:47] That's the point of the rule. So is there any confusion as to where 5 meters is? There is for me because I can't math. Aren't we told to be very precise as to where balls are played from? Yeah, location. And that's exactly, exactly the part of the sideline where the ball passed out. So the ball placement is perfect.

[01:48:11] That is the precision that you're looking for.

[01:48:16] The dotted line is thank you. Thank you for mathing for me. So that's the issue there. It's 7. 87 meters away from the sideline, 27. 5 by 22. That's why I knew it was wrong and I'm like, why am I mathing wrong?

[01:48:40] Changing your answer. Why did you think the pitch was 50 meters wide? Because it was 50 yards wide.

[01:48:52] So the, the black, it, as it turns out, Navy, but that's okay. Um, probably around six to seven meters from the sideline. Yep. So this is an important exercise for us, right? Because when we look at this now in the future, and if that defender has started there, and I think because she moved closer as the ball was inserted, she moved in time.

[01:49:15] When the ball crossed that sideline, she started coming. She's entitled to do that. So it goes both ways, Ernst. It goes both ways that as soon as the ball's in motion, she can be too. And it's up to us to be good enough to understand. That at the moment,

[01:49:37] okay, I'm like, wait a minute. I have slo mo and I have annotations and I have all those things.

[01:49:59] Where is she? Right there. Okay, she is seven meters away at the moment that the ball crosses the sideline. There's your seven meters. But because everything's fluid and everything's in motion, She keeps moving forward, now she's taking another step, and then she takes another step here, and by the time she gets down low into the tackle, she steps forward, and, but that's okay, because she was five meters away at the time that the ball was played.

[01:50:42] It does feel closer, doesn't it? And that's because I think we have it in our brains. That it's only, that it, that it, that that is five meters right there. And we are also making the assumption that when we look at this play from this angle with this camera, it could be a little bit deceptive because there is a long distance between this last, it'd be nice if there was another one, but where exactly is, there should be another, there should be another dot there.

[01:51:18] That would be very helpful to finish off the arc. Because at this angle, it's a little bit, eh, not quite sure.

[01:51:31] You're still taking your first lot to play. Oh, yeah, we should always let the kids play. I agree. Let's get out of the way. I can tell Ernst is mad at me. I can feel the anger coming from Belgium.

[01:51:48] Last one!

[01:51:52] Oh no, was that it? Oh,

[01:51:56] this didn't get fixed.

[01:52:01] Okay.

[01:52:05] No. No. No. I can fix this. I can fix this.

[01:52:18] Just when you think.

[01:52:27] And then this is actually this play. There we go. This

[01:52:43] one is about body shielding. Body obstruction. And that's fair.

[01:52:59] Oh, I didn't poll. I didn't do the last poll, did I? Okay, you watch this a couple times. Collect your thoughts. Vote. I'll go to the 8th poll.

[01:53:14] That is a really good strategy whenever I've screwed up. Because you should like my mistakes.

[01:53:24] Because I dislike my mistakes, so in order to restore balance to the universe, you need to like them. See how that works?

[01:53:34] Okay, so this was absolutely,

[01:53:41] um,

[01:53:47] there we go. Okay. So I got that part of the scene done, right? There we go.

[01:53:53] Okay. So we're looking for the obstruction by the attacker here, and it can often be difficult, the line between. Letting the players move the ball without having to face the direction of their defenders can get us a little bit confused sometimes, but, whoops.

[01:54:30] There's a difference between bringing the ball Around in one direction and pivoting and moving the ball in another and having a sustained motion that the ball carrier continues their progress and blocks the defender from making a tackle in that moment. And that's exactly what was picked up by Tricky.

[01:54:56] And thank goodness Anthony and I agree on something. Cause man, like things were getting a little tense. I was feeling it. I was like, what if we're not friends anymore? I want to be friends with Anthony.

[01:55:18] Uh, there you go. No associated ball movement. Okay. Did anybody have time to vote? 14 of you. 100 percent Excellent. And wait, let's see what happened in the eight poll, by the way. I could have just stayed on that screen. Eight poll. It's not responding. I don't know. I bet you're all smart. Let's see. Fourteen of you said it was fine.

[01:55:46] The free hit was fine, and the five meters was fine. Excellent. Good work.

[01:55:54] Okay, that was a long one. See, I, I can mix it up. I can just go back and forth and mix it up, and there you go. Yeah, and then, and then backing into the space is the next sort of, um, aspect that contributes to the body obstruction. So thank you. It's, it's too bad that this delay that YouTube has, and I know they're protecting us from ourselves by, uh, having the, the whole delay in the comments and all that kind of stuff, but it would be nice if it was contemporaneous, just if physics worked that way.

[01:56:30] I first thought the defender caused the contact. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Which is, which is clearly what the pitch umpire thought. And, I mean, Magalie's had a tremendous tournament. So she's a fantastic umpire. And, you know, sometimes we just don't see things from the right angle and we, we get it mixed up.

[01:56:48] Mistakes happen. Not a bad thing. Good night. Everybody's like telling me good night before I've even ended, so but thank you. It was a long show. Thanks so much. Next week is going to be the Men's Junior World Cup has started and boy has that been fun. Pro League also happens in a couple hours starting down there and of course because GB's playing all chaos is going to ensue and it's all going to be controversy and I'm going to have no choice but to cover lots of things from that.

[01:57:16] So next week's show is going to be big and the show after that I'm going to have to split it up and we'll do like a little bit of a holiday thing on the 20th that will be our annual holiday show if you have anything that you like to give me for Christmas that I can give out on a live stream. Let me know.

[01:57:37] Bring it along. Thanks for joining in. We will see you around, getting to the watch parties on the server, cause we're watching all the hockey. It's been an absolute blast and good morning, good night, and thank you. And you liked the quick The quick fire for a long period of time. We'll see you next time.

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