Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 124

📅 July 5 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

This week, we’re living dangerously with a shot at goal and a 3D move. We have the secret formula to knowing when to add a card when you’ve already upgraded to a penalty corner. And: when is a tackler being shielded or is just breaking down play?

It's the end of the 2023 #FIHProLeague season and our last WUW before summer holidays, so let's make it a party. Just be sure to apply a thick layer of sunblock and wear a sensible hat in the chat, it’s hot out there!

🔗 Links:
Vote in our polls!
Eurohockeytv.org
Ben Dudley Bowl – Blood Cancer UK Charity Game
Martin Madden on #UmpireAtHome
FHu3t

See you there!

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⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00 Chair Dancing
03:50 Topics!
05:04 1. Dangerous Shot on Goal
30:03 2. Danger Up Close
45:55 3. Combining Personal & Team Penalties
57:59 4. Shield or Breakdown Tackle
01:17:19 5. 5m Infringements
01:37:30 6. Aerial Danger on Takeoff

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

🟢🟡🔴 🏑

Transcript

[00:02:12] What Up Wednesday, y'all. Hope you're having a fantastic day. Welcome to July. Welcome to Summer. Yay, or welcome to Winter. If you're on the other end of the world as jolt of Cola Evil is, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad everybody else is here as well. Jam packed show. This is the last day of the Pro League right now.

[00:03:04] And the, uh, Spain, Germany game, Spain, Germany under 21 game is, uh, wrapping up the fourth quarter right now. So feel free to peg the scores in. Uh, we prohibit sports ball scores, but hockey scores, please go ahead and, uh, lay them in here. I'm, I'm mildly interested, just not exceptionally. And then Belgium, u s a women were due to start right now.

[00:03:30] They will be starting probably at around, uh, the top of the next hour is what I would expect, perhaps one and a half. So, uh, who knows? I might be able to see more of that game than I initially expected. So, hey, magic monkey's here. Good to see you again, friend. We are going to get through the following fine topics today.

[00:03:53] Dangerous shot on goal, indeedly doodly, danger up close, combining personal and team penalties. Shielding or breaking down tackle. We had one of those last week, but it's a totally different play. Five metre infringements. I've got three of them for us to look at. And then an aerial danger on takeoff. Ooh, A little bit unusual.

[00:04:16] And as always, I mean, feel free to throw something out there in left field. This is gonna be my last stream for a few weeks. So, uh, we might as well make it a good one. You know, let's have some fun. It's a party. It's all those things. Good to see Stijn and Iain. Iain, you're exceptionally, you're here not having umpire tonight, I assume.

[00:04:36] And you is here. And wait, Tom D you might be new. Therefore, lemme blow you an air horn because that's what I do. Blow, obnoxious, uh, virtual sounds in your general direction. Really glad. And yes, it has been wet in for, there was a rain delay. That's why the men's match is. Delayed and taking its time. So let's get into it, shall we?

[00:05:04] Here is our first topic, a dangerous shot on goal, and the poll question should be in the chat for you very shortly.

[00:05:20] And go ahead and make your way over to the Discord server in order to participate in the poll . Taco. Good to see you friend.

[00:05:49] Ah, Tom. Okay. You are one of our known friends, but still, I'm just, I'm gonna blow an air horn anyway. Why not? Let's do it.

[00:06:10][00:06:10] I can't remember if this is Nikki or Alex on, uh, colour with Dan, “wha, he didn't even flinch!” I don't think he had much time. And that's one of those interesting elements about danger that we have to consider is that we are looking for a legitimate evasive action.

[00:06:50] But in the absence of legitimate evasive action, that doesn't mean that there isn't danger, especially when there is the possibility that that legitimate evasive action didn't have time to manifest and it just got hammered at somebody. So the questions before you are the following. We are not just looking at, um, whether the shot is on at goal, and that is a good starting point because an intentionally raised hit if it's not able to be considered a shot at goal is illegal just regardless.

[00:07:31] So, You take that first criterion into account, understanding that a shot at goal is defined as something that's directed close to the goal, but not necessarily hitting the target. Now, when it comes to danger elements, I think we apply a bit of a stricter definition of that because of what the, the purpose of this rule is, is to make sure that people are still safe.

[00:07:54] So, um, something that is directed that way but is really quite going wide. And I think we've seen this reflected in a lot of the video referrals over the past little while, that they really do pay attention to whether that shot is actually going in between those posts. And I know that seems contrary to what the definition requires, but there are other things that we apply the shot at goal definition to that we take a different view of because of the purpose of the underlying rule.

[00:08:26] Okay. And again, this is all about fairness and spirit. And when it comes to danger, it's kind of the central part. Of what we're doing. So make sure you get your votes in really quickly. I am moving through topics pretty quickly today, so I say that and then I never know exactly what's gonna happen. And one thing I did hear, and I'm doing this today as an experiment, I think it's gonna be a popular one, is I took out the results.

[00:08:54] So if it's a video referral, uh, I've taken away the video referral reply. If you didn't see it live because you weren't watching with me in the Discord, in the watch, uh, party. Uh, and if you don't know how to find the discord, I will pop the link into the chat right now so that you've got that available.

[00:09:16] There it is. fhumpires.com/ds. When you are a member of the yellow group, the yellow team, we watch the matches together. We're able to assess and talk over these things, and you hear sometimes incorrect reactions coming outta my mouth, but I, I usually get around to the right, uh, the right conclusion eventually.

[00:09:39] Um, no innocent. I, I really think this ball was on target. So that is not, that actually isn't the factor. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it is going at, at goal.

[00:09:58] Okay. And again, it doesn't, yeah. So, so just let's move on to some of the other things that we look at, right? Because innocent, that's not the only thing we're looking for. What are the other factors that we look for? Speed of the ball, height of the ball, trajectory of the ball. Meaning is it on its way up?

[00:10:20] Is it on its way down? What kind of movement does it have? How far away is the defender Now, a few people have mentioned, well, he's more than five metres away, marginally maybe. I'm not sure if he actually is five metres away or not. But the five metres away is a guideline. It's not a hard and fast rule except when it comes to penalty corners first shot, because that part is written into the rule book and it's quite an urban myth that people will apply that criterion as a hard and fast rule everywhere else.

[00:10:55] Every other situation inside the circle, everywhere else on the pitch, that is gonna lead you down the wrong garden path because the first hit on a penalty corner is a set place situation where the ball is moved from a very particular place up to a very particular place is being played in a very particular direction at players who come from a very particular thing.

[00:11:15] So we, we've already limited by operation of a penalty corner. A whole bunch of the variables that we would normally have to take into account everywhere else in the pitch. I hope that makes sense because it's really important to see why it's a lot more complicated than just, is it at goal and is the defender more than five metres away?

[00:11:38] Other factors we're gonna look at are what is the spacing and sort of the cr, the crowding around where the potential danger was occurring. Is a player D, does the the op opposing player, do they have a good view of the situation? Do they have the ability to react because there's tons of room around them?

[00:12:00] What direction are they facing? Are they marking a player or are they defending the goal? And that gets to an issue that a lot of people aren't super comfortable with sometimes. Uh, which they need to get comfortable with is that danger isn't just caused by the person who plays the ball. It can be caused by other people.

[00:12:21] It can be caused by that person, that opposing player because they make a decision to sacrifice their own safety in order to make a play on the ball. Okay. So I hope all those things are there. Did I miss anything? I have listed out as many of the criterion as I can. Um, a as many of the factors in the criterion that I can, boy, if, if I mis- pluralize criterion and criteria, my dad is gonna, like, he, he's gonna, like the back of his neck is gonna turn hot and the his arm hair is gonna stand up and he's gonna call me because he's 81 and he's gonna call me and he is gonna say what happened?

[00:13:03] I think he used the wrong word. And also, regardless, I don't care if it's in the dictionary, it doesn't count. Okay. Just, just, I just want you to know that's why I'm correcting myself. Uh, let's see what we got here. Polo, for you. This is dangerous. Even if the initial shot is off target, the defender is there marking, the shot is coming quickly.

[00:13:21] So not much time to react. Okay, good. Summary of a few of the factors that we're gonna look at. Thanks. Um, magic monkey, there's no way Boone could have scored. Um, as the penalty corner is blocked by the keeper and the rest is four players and bone didn't even look quite dangerous though. Okay. I'm not sure cuz we're, we're not in the penalty corner situation anymore.

[00:13:42] The ball is moved out, so that's not really a factor to sort of look at. And also bones stick. Swing looks to cause legitimate evasive action. Okay, so there's one of the things I actually didn't roll through, even though I talked about in the preamble. The legitimate base of action is there, is the player actively trying to make a play on the ball even though it's maybe at height, maybe if it's even at speed.

[00:14:09] That player is like, oh, no, I'm, I can pluck this outta the air, as opposed to a player who is simply either needing to get out of the way or is, uh, uh, it or doesn't even have time to get outta the way. Okay. Uh, you'll ask, come reads badly. Mm. Okay. Uh, it should be regardless if the shot. Okay. Thank you for that clarification.

[00:14:34] Regardless of whether the shot is on target or not. Okay. Yeah, I like that better too. That's, that's a good one. As an aside, Joel Deco Evil, was this the first, if this was the first hit at pc, would it trigger the raised rule or not? Considering this is a bumped ball.

[00:14:54] Okay. Let me see if I can piece this together, what you mean by a bumped ball. I'm gonna actually watch another screen so I can see exactly.

[00:15:12] Okay, so maybe what you're asking me is whether this would be considered the first shot at goal or the second shot at goal, and it would be the second shot at goal. So the actual shot that comes, that scores, but that the, the first, the first hit from the top of the circle. That would be the first shot at goal.

[00:15:35] That would be too high according to, okay, so I'm sorry. I'm trying to piece it together because this isn't a penalty corner situation, so I I I didn't mean to lead you down the garden path and distract y'all from, from the focus here. This isn't a corner. Okay. Because the corner's over ball's gone more than five metres outside the circle.

[00:15:56] But that hit there would've been, even though it gets. Saved. Touched that is intended to go to the target. And that's the flip side of the shot at goal definition is that we take a more permissive or expansive view as this being a shot at goal. Even if it doesn't get there, if it's, if it's intended to go there, if it's directed that way, if there is time for the defenders to assemble themselves in a different pattern in order to keep themselves safe according to how the set piece of a penalty corner flows, then it's over.

[00:16:38] Okay. I hope I led through that sufficiently after I figured everything out. Taco, the Dutch defender was not covering an attacker but defending the goal. Uh, however, the shot was aimed at the body above the knee. He still could reflex it in though. You would go for play on at this level. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take, um, I'm gonna give you the flip side to a couple of those things because first of all, I think that it's pretty clear that he is marking a player.

[00:17:10] He is not simply covering the goal. I don't know why that's coming through so orange, but I, let's have a look.

[00:17:20] Okay.

[00:17:24] This for me is marking if this player was more like over here or over here, even then he might be marking this player. But, um, let's say if, if he's, if he's ducked more into this spacing and ends up clocking here, that's more defending the goal. This is not defending the goal Taco. Okay. So I would,

[00:17:51] I would refute that the shot was aimed at the body above the knee. So you're looking at the height of the ball. That's one factor to take into account. But that if, if you feel that the player is blocking the goal and takes the ball above the knee, then that should be a penalty stroke or a penalty corner in this case, cuz it wasn't a probable goal.

[00:18:14] Okay. So your logic is not, uh, that you, you need to follow along the line of how we would make this determination. Okay. And he could still act and reflex the, I'm, I'm not sure what, what that is. Um, you would still go for play on. Okay. I hope that helps a little bit in, in sorting through that. If the hit shot at equal scores, but the momentum, the swing of the stick means the defender gets hit with a non negligible force with the follow through of the stick.

[00:18:44] Would you disallow for danger? I don't know what you are referring to. You, are you talking about, um, are you talking about this, these two players? He, is that what you're talking about? Uh, swing of the stick defender gets hit with a non neg, with a, with force. Can we not use double negatives? I am limited in cognitive capacity when I'm at the decks.

[00:19:11] Okay. So like, let's make this easy for me. So if that's what you mean there. Okay. That defender is coming in from a side which puts him in a potentially vulnerable position, but he's done the right thing by getting really close to the shooter. But that's his responsibility because this player is on, they don't have to not shoot just because there's somebody who's trying to put their stick in the way and block the shot.

[00:19:45] So there's that.

[00:19:52] Okay. You meant the first post? Yeah, that's it. Goal? Yep. That's a shot at goal. Remember the definition being, it doesn't have to actually hit the target, but hitting the post is really, really close to the target. It's as close you can get to the target without actually going inside the big white box.

[00:20:16] Okay, good to know. Thanks, Polo for you, Steven. It's dangerous. Not playing at the ball and they're marking an attacker. Okay, so, so language, just be like, is he defending the goal? Is he putting himself in a position that he would be happy to use his body to stop the ball from going in the goal? Because he's covering extra space for a goalkeeper who is not occupying that space or able to make that safe.

[00:20:42] Okay. And it's too quick to do anything other than flinch. So the speed of the ball coming at him, that is definitely a factor. Is it worth considering the defenders right next to attackers? So the ball hit into a crowd. Yes. That is another factor. Thank you, Andrew. That the, that there is the, you know, there's not a lot of space in which that defender could operate and the pressure of having something, having that projectile coming at you, at that pace with that many people around in that proximity.

[00:21:10] Yes. So you have taken that into account. Good job. Good factor. You thought it was a bumped ball? I don't, I don't know what a bump ball means. Explain what's a bumped ball. Uh, if the ball crosses the line above the backboard, and if that's the first shot during a pce, you cannot score. You don't think it matters as bumped into the ground.

[00:21:33] Oh, a squeeze shot kind of bumped. Yeah, that doesn't matter. That doesn't change anything. The, and the danger doesn't change because of that. Okay. Thank you. Y that, that helps. I was like, what's the, what the hell's a bumped ball? This is why I get so keyed on language, right? From another perspective is that, you know, jolt, those are, that, that's a term that clearly you're very comfortable in using and it means something in your region, in your country, you know, whatever.

[00:22:01] But I have no idea what that means. And there's probably lots of other people in the chat that don't know. So we can be careful about the language that we choose in order to, you know, be more inclusive and, and just be more clear so that everybody knows Ali. Good to see you friend. Belgian player showed significant control tipping that ball.

[00:22:22] Um, Belgian player didn't tip it, it actually just flat out hit the Dutch player in the arm. So, and that's. That would be another thing is like, let's say that the Belgian player next to the Dutch defender who does get hit, that's the tip into him. Well, as we'll, you know, see in the, in the next clip, I, I wouldn't expect that to be considered safe whatsoever.

[00:22:50] And for you, not dangerous. Interesting. Your side was disregarding the danger element. Just asking a bump. Okay. Yeah. Doesn't change it. Absolutely. Okay. Good stuff, gang. I, I enjoy how you all throughout like, does this matter? Does this matter? Does this matter? Absolutely right. Danger is not a one factor call, it's not a two factor call.

[00:23:17] It's a many factor call unless there's a specific rule of the rule book that tells you that this is the thing that you look for. Okay? So now that we know that, Let's find out what happened on the pitch. This has gonna be an interesting one, Sarah. I have advice for you. Um, the initial shot was dangerous on the Dutch defender, so you can restart with a free head out and the Dutch will keep the referral.

[00:23:45] Super popular decision with the Dutch, with the Belgian crowd, the ball inside. Okay, let's have a look what you all thought on this, and I'm gonna obviously have to refresh this data in order to see, okay, so what we've, so 83% of you felt it was dangerous and 16, 17% of you felt it wasn't dangerous. So, good work, my personal vote would've been on the side of danger.

[00:24:17] And those are difficult to call because it literally is the difference between a gold being scored or not. It's, it's, it's the biggest call. But I think that Ali did a good job in the booth of taking into account all the different things. And particularly for me, I think it's important to to point out where the defender was vis-a-vis another attacker that they were legitimately playing defense on.

[00:24:42] And sorry, that's a very North American way of saying that they were legitimately marking. So I, I think that that's, that's something to take into account there. And Shayne's here. Okay. Fantastic. Um, let's run through a couple announcements before we move on to the next topic, if we can. My stream deck is not necessarily responding.

[00:25:11] I. Y'all know we've been following the escapades of our friend Hamish, who is doing hockey wrong by playing, but okay, we're gonna accept this. He is playing at the under 18 euros. And so his debut match, if all goes well, he'll be playing. He reports in the second and fourth quarters. So those are the only quarters I'm gonna watch.

[00:25:34] Just kidding. Of the Belgium, Scotland. It's the very first match of the tournament. So all you have to do is go to euro hockey tv.org and you can pay a poultry sum for those of us in this, uh, area of the world. And we have access to the entire tournament streaming, and I think it's really important for us as hockey people and hockey fans to support our hockey product with our hockey dollars.

[00:26:10] And watch them on our hockey TVs. We spend lots of money watching the sports ball and then the other sports ball, and then paying for jerseys for sports balls. And look, this is the sport we love. So let's start putting our money where our heart is instead of with other organizations who really don't need our help.

[00:26:35] Okay. Oh my goodness, everybody, Rob Scott is here. You finally made it

[00:26:44] and Raj is here too. I'm glad you're here. Um, so at under 18 they don't play as gb. Interesting. It's Steffan, the formula by which they play, uh, as GB or, um, Or as their home nations has almost everything to do with Olympic qualification or not. So if the competition that the home nations would normally be competing in is a qualifier for the Olympics, then they will compete as gb.

[00:27:22] So that's why you see even in the Pro League are, oh gosh, I'm gonna get this wrong, but there, there's certain times where the tournaments are qualifiers for the World Cup, which is home nations, or they're qualifiers for Olympics, which is always gb. So they're in a Olympic cycle right now when the Pro league is going to be a qualifier for, uh, the Olympics next year.

[00:27:51] So in order to not get relegated as. And often, like there's sometimes little derivations. Now, all that said, under eighteens don't have any of those considerations. And euros, they are competing as nations usually. Okay. But it has less to do with, okay, look, I'm just gonna stop talking about it. I don't wanna.

[00:28:21] The Ben Dudley Bowl was this weekend, and if you haven't had an opportunity to go put your money behind this cause blood cancer, uh, UK Hodgkin's Lymphoma, that took the life of this very outstanding, uh, member of the Bristol Hockey community, then please go give that a look. I know that the campaign is still there and there's a link in the description below that.

[00:28:44] You can have a look. And Mike McCartney, our yellow team, fellow teammate, was out there supporting by helping facilitate games as an umpire. So thank you very much for that contribution. And so have a look at that. And also speaking of Mike, cuz he's bloody everywhere, he didn't have time to tell me how the bud Ben Dudley Bowl went because he went off to umpire at the European Masters, uh, in Nottingham, I believe.

[00:29:13] So he's somewhere in that picture of rainbow goodness. Oh my gosh, I love those shirts. I believe they originally, or they've been popularized by, uh, the Japanese national umpires that I've seen on all the Facebooks, and I love these shirts to death. And Lucy Barlow is like dead centre in the middle with her beautiful blue air.

[00:29:41] So congratulations to everybody who's participating in that. There's lots of, uh, FHumpires community members in that group doing their thing and probably having an incredible time from all reports. So there you are. Congratulations to everybody doing all those things. Okay, next topic. Danger up close.

[00:30:08] We're staying on the same theme of the dangers.

[00:30:58] .

[00:30:58] Okay. You don't get the result, do you? So we've run through the criterion. We know of all the things that we can talk about. We can talk about where the defender was. Were they defending the goal? Were they defending a player? How close were they to where the ball took off? What was the trajectory of that ball?

[00:31:36] What was the speed of that ball? What was the, well, I forgot this one. What was the skill level of the players and their ability to skillfully play this ball? Or do they need to legitimately evade it? In order not to be damaged. Okay, so you've got those factors, the crowd, the, the, the, um, what's the best way to, I need a phrase for that.

[00:32:03] Like, does it go into a crowded area? But what's the, is it a crowded ar a crowded area? Crowded area. Crowded area. Doesn't seem to really, okay. It's too simple. So does it go into a crowded area? Is, does the defender have eyes on the ball? Okay. All those sort of things. Let's see what you all think. So, and if there are two yellow starts, you point at both for a 10, you know, just use cards.

[00:32:31] And from what I understand from Michael McCartney, he's finally tired of me nailing him to the wall for not carding early enough. And he's doing a much better job with all those things. So there you go. Tough love is the answer. Every time. Friends, tough love. Okay, so get your votes in quickly cuz I do wanna move on.

[00:32:55] We're already at 12:35, so there you go. Okay, so Tugsi. Thank you. You're pointing out that it's into a congested area. Yes. And look at how close the defender is to where the ball is raised at her. Okay. How much opportunity does a player at any skill level, but particularly even at this skill level, what kind of opportunity does she have to, to skillfully play at this ball?

[00:33:24] It's going slowly. It's not like it's hit at her from that distance, which would've been a very easy call to make. But what opportunity did she have after the ball has been lifted up in the air? Nice 3D skills, but then it's lifted and then played into her from a very short distance. I think it's also worthwhile.

[00:33:48] We're seeing lots of replays and just sort of in a, as an aside, not a criticism, but a point of a point of order, a point of, of awareness for us is the positioning of an umpire trying to make this decision. And the classic, they're behind the body of the defender who, uh, which is having the ball played at the behind the body, the of, of the defender, can't see the ball necessarily.

[00:34:20] You can see him right in line and he is starting to move around. But that would've been a really tough callise in the moment. And you're never gonna get perfectly right. And I'm, I'm not saying that he needed to be somewhere else, he could have been somewhere else. But if Michielel is, uh, is not at a good angle to see where that ball has gone, that's why you have two people.

[00:34:42] And at this level, this is why you have video referral. And video review. But for us, this is why we have a supporting umpire. They can be very assistive on these kinds of decisions. And this is one of the reasons, uh, why under mission control positioning, I advocate for the supporting umpire not to be hanging out on the sideline, but much more central so they can assist precisely on calls like this.

[00:35:17] And that's important for us. Okay. Too much decking, which I'm not gonna say with the New Zealand accent, right? Uh, it's not just raids, it's then played into them, which cannot have offensive advantage.

[00:35:37] Okay? Just a question, why does the umpire reject the player coming towards him? Okay. Oh sure. Yeah. Let's, let's go through this. So, so what happens here is that Michiel is already passed the referral up to the, uh, the video umpire and the regulations are clear at this point that it is not for the players to come and try to argue or pressure or interfere with the video referral process.

[00:36:11] Cuz imagine if, because especially with the comms being open as they are on this particular stadium set up and this part particular production, they come up and they start saying, well, you know, I can see, you know, th this is what we saw. And they, they start trying to influence what the video umpire is seeing.

[00:36:31] That isn't acceptable, but the video umpire still needs to keep the channel open so that they can hear if there's any actual legitimate further instruction clarification or changes that are coming from the pitch umpires. So they are not allowed to approach and speak and try to clarify. It's already gone up.

[00:36:51] It's gone up.

[00:36:55] Um, oh, did I write that? Oh my gosh.

[00:37:04] I dunno what I've done wrong. I probably said control. I think I've been seeing too many, um, science fiction movies recently. It sounds worse when Ozzy accent. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, the YouTubes tell me that with a New Zealand accent, it's, it's the worst.

[00:37:36] Hi, Tugsi. Oh my gosh, I should not have put that up. Low speed. Steven. Low speed plus defender actively plays the ball rather than flinching or taking legitimate evasive action. It's one way of looking at perhaps another way is the lack of distance and height. Yeah, so it's not a super, super clear cut situation.

[00:37:56] But let's see what Sarah , oh no Sarah, I have advice for you that's about this. The ball has come up dangerously from the USA player into the German player, so you can restart with a free out and Germany will keep the referral line. It goes cleverly. Sun fessed, good hands on the VDR wall towards, do you think it's my own damn course, and I'd be able to say the words correctly.

[00:38:23] Good to know. So, where are we at? 12 voters? Come on. There's more of you out there. Get in the server. All you have to do is accept the rules. You don't have to cl claim a role. I've kept the channel extremely open. Just get in the discord and go vote. It's just so much easier for me to do it this way because I can see right away that 92% of you, so that must be 11 of you, believe that this is dangerous and one of you doesn't believe it's dangerous.

[00:38:56] And that's ok. That's good stuff. I agree. I believe it's dangerous. The proximity is one of the biggest weighted factors for me and watching that play. And yes, she's, she's trying to make a stab at it, but, but she, she's so close to it. I don't think she has much time or space to get out of the way. Or, you know, move, she's just kinda like, ugh.

[00:39:21] And, and I mean, you could try to protect yourself with your stick as much as, you know, doing many, many other things. So, um, so my mission critical positioning, can I just remind myself of how critical I am and therefore I will say mission critical positioning. Thank you. All right, before we move on to the next, I hope that wraps that up for you.

[00:39:45] Let me know if you have any other questions on that particular play. I just wanna remind you of a few things. I mean, obviously I can remind you of this thing, which I believe I have critically critical. I, I've got everything critical in here. Everything is there. This is the course where you can find all of the things for Mission Critical Positioning.

[00:40:09] I'm, I'm thinking of ideas of, of how I can incorporate more. Examples and illustrations and things like that. But anyway, the course is now also in the Discord. So I would love for people who have either taken the course on the website already and they're like, you know, I need a refresher. I'd love for you to go into the Discord, claim your role if you don't already have it, and go look at how it plays for you in the server and give me some feedback, because I wanna move all my courses in there, and if y'all hate it, then I'm not gonna do it.

[00:40:48] But the, the feedback's been really solid already, but I'd rather have all of their, all of the feedback there and yeah, but see that doesn't help me remember not to say things wrong. So anyway. All good. Um, as I alluded to earlier, I am going on holidays and I'm excited because spur of the moment, In an absolutely uncharacteristic bout of spontaneity, I decided I'm gonna fly down to Santa Barbara and go see my really, really good friend Lindsay Cooney, who is a fabulous goalkeeper and goaltender in ice hockey as well.

[00:41:27] And I'm gonna go hang out with her in Santa Barbara, and I'm gonna go ocean kayaking for every day of the seven days. I'm there, I'm sure, okay, maybe I won't be able to make it out on the Tuesday. But anyway, I'm gonna go to there for a week and just shut her down and then drink margaritas every night.

[00:41:46] She has a lime tree in her backyard, so I am very excited about that. And thank you Paul, for that, um, endorsement of the course. I really, yeah, I really like it too. Oh my God. Stop saying nice things to me. I'm not accustomed to it as an umpire. You cannot praise its positive impact on your game. Enough.

[00:42:06] It's five coffees people. What does that mean? What does that, what does that mean? Okay, so in addition to this holiday stint, holiday stint that is happening the week after that occurs, I'm doing this thing and I'm gonna be hanging out with that very handsome gentleman. As you can see there, Jamal Burgess and I are gonna be teaming up to umpire manage the under 18 national championships, and that goes from the Tuesday, July 25th to this Sunday.

[00:42:41] So I'm gonna do my best to try to gather content and check in. I have this sneaking suspicion that the best way for me to make this accessible, spontaneous, and not leave a legacy on YouTube that I'm not impressed with is to come into the voice channels in the Discord server and hang out with y'all and just sort of give you updates that way.

[00:43:05] That's what I think is probably gonna happen. But I do wanna try to include you in the process and see what I can pass along as to things that I'm learning and experiencing and how we're doing as an umpiring team at this tournament. They're such fantastic learning opportunities. They're also just really, really busy.

[00:43:23] So just being realistic. So there will not be a what up Wednesday on July 26th because time, timing, all that stuff. There you go, Jammy. Oh, the cost is the equivalent of five coffees. Oh my God. I need to charge more money for that. Ooh, dummy. I'm bad at business. How does your, how much does coffee, your coffee cost?

[00:43:52] Um, how much does my coffee cost? Mm. Would that be, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like a Starbucks coffee. Or like a super fancy coffee. I don't drink coffee. I drink, mate. So I don't really know. Uh oh, taco, you're just going back to this sort of thing. So let me just, I'll just clear that off the screen. I don't want you to be distracted.

[00:44:18] Um, oh wait, that wasn't the comment I was trying to bring up. Let me bring this. So with the height and speed, there would be like two metres before player defender. The player does not step aside. Would you not call it dangerous if the ball okay? I don't know if you're talking about the first one and the second one, if you're talking about the second one, they were not two metres away from each other.

[00:44:38] They were with well within one metre of each other. So this is why we need to talk about the facts of these situations and make sure that we're on the same page because if we don't agree on the facts, we're not gonna be able to analyze situations very well. And the defender doesn't step aside, we do not call it dangerous.

[00:45:00] The ball hits above the knee. We have a lot of knots. Um,

[00:45:11] yeah, I'm not. Sorry. I'm, I'm having trouble parsing how the sentence all plays out. Hopefully it was, it was clear enough there that that was dangerous because of how close she was. Like, just to, just to put it as simply as I possibly can. That's where it is. And, and I called a mission control positioning.

[00:45:31] So Jaco like, this is not on you, man. This is not on you. I will h really learn about coffee. Um, you're coffee snobs. Well, everybody's coffee snobs, so I'm just not a coffee drinker. That's all. Okay, let's get into the third one because I do have, uh, oh, I have two examples. This is a non poll segment. I'm sorry, Polo.

[00:45:57] This is a non polling segment of the show. We're combining personal team penalties in the third quarter. This is beautiful, please listen. .

[00:46:35][00:46:35] And as you can see, it is not Onana sitting on the bench. It was the teammate who commits this breakdown foul 16 getting fouled. So if you didn't hear the words that came outta Martin's, Martin Madden's mouth, the M'S in that situation is, he said, this is the second time I've blown a PC for a breakdown tackle outside the circle.

[00:47:12] Okay. I gave him lots more words, but this is the second time I've blown a tackle outside the circle, and that's why he's pulling into his pocket. So one of the big questions I get asked on a regular basis, and we've had some really nice talks over this in the watch parties, in the server, um, and you Joran, I believe you're, I think you're here, maybe you're not, but Joran and I especially have been talking about it because it's one of those things as you're, as you're coming through that it can feel very, I.

[00:47:44] Ugh, intangible, and I don't know how to apply some kind of rules. Well, guess what, everybody, I've got rules for you. I've got rules for you. I've got a little bit of an acronym that you can go by that I just sort of came up with in the last few days because I realized I was saying the same things over and over again.

[00:48:04] There are three things you're gonna look for as to whether you wanna combine a card with a team penalty. The more severe team penalty that can be awarded, colloquially known as an upgrade penalty, doesn't exist in the rule book, but hopefully that is pretty clear. But here's the first part of. The R D I, which is repetition, and that's exactly what you hear Martin talking about in that explanation to the players who are outraged that their teammate has taken a green card for that breakdown tackle outside the circle.

[00:48:37] That's the second time I've had to award a penalty corner for that kind of breakdown tackle. The first time that I gave you a corner against clearly didn't get the message across. It's repeated, and that would go for, uh, penalty strokes. For example, a goalkeeper who comes to commit a sliding challenge, for example, and takes a player out, especially because you have that very big remedy of the penalty stroke as the team penalty.

[00:49:11] You may not be giving a card on the first instance, but boy, you see it again in the same game, you're gonna be giving a card. Okay? So that's one of the factors that you look at. As to whether you're gonna combine. The next one is danger. So the danger inherent in the foul, that requires a stronger message.

[00:49:33] So obviously when you get into something like, let's say it's a sliding tackle outside the circle, that's a very obvious, like you don't care that you have the penalty corner available to you because it's dangerous, and there's a briefing that helps you out with that. You're going to be giving and umpiring the personal penalty with that foul.

[00:49:55] Okay? I don't have an example of one of those right here, but I think we've, we've seen them on the streams, you know, ver very frequently in the last forever that I've been doing them. Okay. But here's an example of the next. Or the final, uh, category here.

[00:50:23][00:50:23][00:50:23] So note the following things, time of the game, q4, three minutes left. Score one, one. And in this match, this is the, this is, this is the chart from tms. And you can see there is goal, goal and goal. That's what the circles, the blue circles mean. The stars are, I believe, when players went into the, no.

[00:51:12] Stoppages? No, I don't, I can't remember what the stars are for, but the little, um, I'm pointing at the screen. Dork. The little yellow square indicates that that yellow card is the only card that was given in the game. And if you're looking at repetition as the only thing, or maybe even danger because it's not actually that, you know, yeah, the player does go for a tumble, but it isn't the most dangerous foul ever.

[00:51:42] So why is Michiel giving a five minute yellow card for this play? And it's because of this, it's because of impact. The breakdown stops a dangerous attack from developing inside the circle. In a tie game late, it is desperation to try to break and stop some good hockey from happening. So flat out, absolutely, yellow card, straight.

[00:52:15] That is the right thing. So he's able to pair from the tackle that in Michiel's estimation happens outside the circle. It continues in, but he's calling the first one and that's one of the things. He has such good whistle timing on a lot of his stuff that he actually calls something that continues and everybody thinks he's calling the the continuation, but actually he's making a determination based on the first thing that happened.

[00:52:44] And he's calling the foul that happened outside. Okay. The stars are PCs. Thank you. Very smart. This is. David. This is your only hockey of the week, which delights me to no end. Thank you for coming. Um, Joep, you can't even distinguish a green triangle and a red circle. Now I'm giving you an acronym. I look, I have faith in you,

[00:53:14] Joep, you can do this. And Tugsi no, the, the wrong player didn't go off. That's all. This is the thing about tv. Okay? Streaming the directorial decisions and where the camera's pointed and where they tell the cameraman, oh, concentrate on Onana. He, he's the last guy to touch the ball. No, he wasn't the guy who committed the foul.

[00:53:37] So what looks like Onana is going off. He's not, he was actually going off to go to the centre line because he's not part of the penalty corner defense. No, it was an, it was the player who committed the foul. And okay. I don't have it on there, but yeah, the wrong player didn't go off. The graphic goes up to say it's Onana, also incorrect.

[00:54:00] I knew it wasn't an out of the whole time. I don't, I apparently they need an umpire in the comms box and they need an umpire in the directorial box because they don't know what's happening in the game sometimes. Uh, Stijn, you're referring to the first one you're watching the match of the stadium.

[00:54:18] Sitting next to an international umpire said nobody can explain and sell decisions like Mr. Madden. Absolutely fair. He is very, very good at that. He has an incredible way of just, it's, it's not necessarily the most sophisticated, but he doesn't waste words and that has a beautiful efficiency, all of its own.

[00:54:41] And Tom agrees it's corner. There you go. RDI. I, that's the only way you're gonna remember it. Okay. I thought about making it r r r like the three R's. A repetition, recklessness, and result. But I didn't like the result part. And everybody knows that impact is a big part of this. It's in the briefing, and I don't wanna introduce words that don't really, because I'm all about the words.

[00:55:08] Right? All about the words. Hang, haven't seen you for a while. The defender had a hand on the back of the attacker. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there was, there was no problem in calling that as intentional reckless as to the result. That was a breakdown of play. Easy, easy call. Okay. So that's what we're looking at.

[00:55:30] Repetition, danger, and impact. You may have a combination of these factors. You may have one in isolation, but if you don't have these things, you don't have to combine that personal penalty with the team penalty. I've had people say, oh, I've called a penalty corner for something that happened outside the circle, so I have to give a card.

[00:55:53] Right? I'm like, why? You don't have to. Maybe you need to, but you don't have to. Same thing with a penalty stroke. Same thing. Oh, I called a penalty stroke for a breakdown tackle inside the circle. So it should be a card, right? Why? This is why, this is why. Okay. Look for these things. Yes, Mr. Madden is a police officer and that may explain something.

[00:56:20] I'll, um, I will tag, and if anybody who's in the chat right now can find the Umpired Home episode where I interviewed Martin at length, uh, about his. His approach, how his background impacts, the way that he approaches the game and all that sort of thing. It's a really good watch. He's a very interesting individual and my diametric opposite in so many ways because he, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do this overthinking of everything the way that I do.

[00:56:57] And I love that. I love that about him. He's a fantastic umpire without having, having to do that. He's just, his gut instinct has been built from gathering data over years, decades, like just decades of being at the pitch and absorbing everything that's happening. And he's just got this high level view of it that he gets it.

[00:57:18] Yeah, and I mean, I don't think, I don't think in this case, when you're, when you're looking at the body language of the German defender, actually I think it's a bit more of a. Oh, he's getting applied the standard. This is senior hockey friends. Michiel is no fool. He knows exactly what's happening. That's probably not been something that he's been consistently exposed to throughout his career up until this point in time.

[00:57:45] Welcome to the Pro League, Pro League Umpiring. Um, no, that's not his name. His name's Martin, Martin Madden. Okay, um, let's go on to topic four. We're whizzing through.

[00:58:00] It's been an hour. I might be on schedule. I'm not on schedule. We're gonna look at the shield or breakdown tackle. This is gonna be a little bit of a, .

[00:58:08] Maybe this is gonna be a complicated one. Let me know what you think. .

[00:59:08] .

[00:59:08] . Tugsi, you may have tried to put up the link. And maybe it was rejected. It's cause you're not moderator. Don't worry, I'll pop it in the description.

[00:59:27] Slip it in the Discord server as well. Or you can slip it in the Discord server. Did you know we have a Discord server? You should go check out the Discord server. Hey, so cut off the result given by the video umpire. What do y'all think of this?

[00:59:47] Which I think is a very difficult decision for a number of reasons.

[01:00:04] Okay. One of the challenges that we have here is the camera angles that we get are not at all close to what Michiel gets on the pitch. And for me, it's important to look at where the tackle, the, the attempt to tackle is coming from, from the defender on this. Because I don't believe there's an obligation for the ball carrier to move their stick in such a way that if they are progressing forwards, that they can only have their stick behind the ball, ball and stick.

[01:00:54] Does that look at all like a stick behind the ball? Okay. And it would be completely legitimate for a player to have their stick on the side of the ball. This way or this way because they're going to Indian dribble and do things like that.

[01:01:17] What we don't think is an appropriate way to hold your stick as a ball carry is if a defender's in front of you, perfectly legitimate place to try to make a tackle from, and then you put your stick over top of the ball and say, no, you're not gonna touch it from there, I'm gonna put my stick over top of it.

[01:01:38] And especially if there's space between that where you literally hold the defender's stick away from the ball momentarily or in a sustained attempt, but this notion that the player can't have their stick on the side of the ball like that

[01:02:00] as they continue dribbling. I think that's one open for discussion.

[01:02:12] Um, so Laurine Delforge is an excellent young umpire. Yeah. Um, she's already gone a long way. She, she's literally done the Olympic final at the age of 25 and done the World Cup final. She's gone a long way. Yep. Um, we're shielding with the body, the stick. Okay. That's another thing to look at in this situation, Iain is where is the, where does the ball carrier have the ball and where they pres where, where they move in their body at that point.

[01:02:44] What, what I think is important, and I alluded to it earlier, there's a reason I said that earlier when I talked about Michiel's, um, whistle timing is he called this very quickly. And what happened at the tail end, the last second of this little passage of play was not when he made the decision to make, to, to call the foul. It was before the player had turned and really put her body in that direction.

[01:03:17] That is very important to distinguish, and that's why whistle timing is so important.

[01:03:26] For you, the attacker had her stick on the ball says Ali on the right side of the ball for long enough. Had it been the last minute to prevent the tackle and then perhaps shielding. Yeah. I'm not sure if the, the, the length of time it's there is a damning factor or promoting factor factor. It's, it's, it's hard to know.

[01:03:46] It's kind of a little bit weird.

[01:03:51] Okay. But I very much look at where was the attacker in relation to, or sorry, where was the defender in relation to the attacker's progress to their target? And what I see from this, as I go to my replay, is here, the defender is marginally behind. And there can't be an onus on a ball carrier to be like, oh, here, allow me to present you with the ball.

[01:04:27] Right. That would be insane. That would be not, you know, that would be just weird af

[01:04:37] And where the attacker reaches, or sorry, where the defender reaches, gosh, I'm struggling with knowing who's doing what here. Let's see if I can get more to this, this replay. And I might even slow it down a little bit more. Okay, so this looks okay to me right now. That's fine. Everything is fine.

[01:05:08] And then I think what Michiel is, is calling in this moment is after that progresses just enough, this is okay. And then we start to see a lean by the defender because the attacker is in front and they're entitled to try to cut off and entitled to try to go in this direction. They don't have to say, oh, let me slow down so that you can get in front of me.

[01:05:41] And this is the moment at which Michiel is making his determination that this is a breakdown foul. That's what I think is happening. But I'm happy to hear whether you think I am misconstruing all of this. Okay. And that's the, yeah. And that, and that's the thing. Um, in that case, it's already either a free hit defense or a pc.

[01:06:10] Yep. The attacker was going left to right while dribbling, uh, and then just before the interference, she's guiding the ball. It feels like shielding.

[01:06:21] So what does that mean? What does guiding the ball mean? Is she not a, is it not a legitimate way to play, to guide the ball? Why, what does guiding mean to you?

[01:06:39] Okay, now you think you see it. I wonder what you're seeing. Um, Jereon de Bruin. Hi. This is one of the most difficult rules to enforce. It's subjective, uh, welcome to hockey. Everything is subjective except maybe sideline balls and end line and that sort of thing. It it, when you get to this sort of 50 50 situation or just like 50.5% to 49.5, these, this is, like I said, a very difficult decision, and it's from this and, and like I said when I led up to this, the angle that we have, when you see that, let's see if I can, I can cue it up.

[01:07:22] When you see this angle on the play,

[01:07:28] okay, you get a different perception of the contact that's between the two players as they're rolling. And I, I suspect right here at this moment, that's where the lean comes and from michiel's angle, which is, sorry, across this way. He's got a fantastic view. They're coming towards him dead on. He is like, because Megan, or what's it, what's her, um, Gini, her, her running path is trying to run at him towards the goal.

[01:08:14] So he's got a very different angle on this than I think we do. Let me just check another com, couple comments and then we'll go see what is there. If the attacker isn't dribbling the ball, but has her stick off it, is she actually playing the ball? And if not, does her body stick become the way to constitute obstruction?

[01:08:34] It's a good question. Is there a notice on her to have her stick on the ball? Is she obligated to do that? Why? Is the question I asked back, why would that be the requirement in this case?

[01:08:55] It's really complicated, isn't it? It's like I'm not giving you a lot of answers. I'm asking a lot of questions. Am I saying the stick or the body is shielding? I think neither because, um, no. Let's see the result, the ball and turn out. There's no clear reason to change your decision. Stay with the penalty corner until that is a big, Sarah Wilson sees it differently.

[01:09:24] She's just got off for two minutes saying how clear the target a bit earlier maybe. Okay, now the pressure's on. Let's see what you thought on the pole.

[01:09:37] Um, woo. 79% of you thought it was a shield and wanted to go with a free hit defense free hit attack for 15% of you. And, but most of you, okay, so I wanna know, let's see. If you think it's a free hit attack, more of you thought it was a free hit attack than actually thought it was a penalty corner. Why do you not see that as a breakdown of play if the foul's coming from behind?

[01:10:05] Do you really think that that is not reckless as to the result of creating a foul and stopping that ball carries progress? It's a one-on-one. The ball's just been turned over. It's a one-on-one going towards that goal. Let's look at this again. Okay. Oops, let me turn that off. Okay. Ball's just been turned over.

[01:10:28] Okay. It's not one-on-one, but it's. It's just outside the circle. It's all those things. There are only two possibilities in my mind. This is either a penalty corner or it's a free hit defense for the shield. It cannot just be a free hit for the attack.

[01:10:50] Um, nobody wants to play on. Okay. For me, as I've mentioned in re repeatedly in the last several weeks, and if you're like, Keely, I don't watch you every week. You should, you should, and you should also do this thing, but you definitely should be watching every week because I, I don't wanna repeat myself, but I do, and one of the things I say is, in difficult situations like this, when our perspective, you kind of have to have the experience to, and be able to understand how our perspective as viewers of a stream with one, maybe two, maybe three, if we're lucky. Camera angles at barely 30 frames per second. How our vision of a situation can be very different from what the pitch umpire has, and we need to understand that if a pitch umpire is made a particular decision and they have good eyes on it, maybe there's a reason why they went that way with their call.

[01:11:56] And part of our process needs to be, let's figure out why that decision was made that way, instead of simply saying, oh, well it must be wrong, we're too quick to jump to the contrarian view in many cases, rather than seeing what is the evidence that an umpire would see from where they are to support the decision that they've made.

[01:12:26] Okay. The German defender was trying to tackle the attacker. Yes, they were. But were they trying that tackle, was it a, was it a high risk in that attempt that they were gonna break down play? That is the definition of an intentional tackle. An intentional breakdown of play, because we don't read minds. We look at the probabilities of whether something's gonna be successful or not.

[01:12:54] Do you see the difference? Hang, it's, it's, it's a very important step to get to in your own umpiring and your own processing of these plays, because we can't ask them, well, did you mean to commit that foul? They meant all the actions that led to the fact that they didn't carry that out successfully. She was in full control of her body.

[01:13:17] She made the choice to reach the way she did, all those sort of things. Therefore, that's reckless as the result that when you try to do all those things and you're slightly behind the attacker, you're much more likely to not be able to commit that tackle cleanly. That's what we mean. Okay. I hope that helps.

[01:13:38] Um, stick on ball. Playing the ball. You can argue that if your stick isn't on the ball with it by inch chair yard, you're not actually in possession. You're shielding. Cause shielding is preventing another player from playing the ball. You don't have to be in possession. There's no rule that says you have to be in possession of the ball.

[01:13:56] So what we're looking at is, is it legitimate for that player to play the ball there? That that's it.

[01:14:09] You've heard obstruction being described as an active process. Could, could you treat obstruction, could stick, could you treat obstruction similarly, that holding your stick next to the ball is okay. Pushing the stick away is not you. Could you could,

[01:14:27] I already kind of, I like, I have concerns, I have thoughts, but that is something to sort of think about. Cuz again, there isn't an onus on a player who is the ball carrier, who doesn't have to be touching the ball on them every moment as they are the ball carrier. There isn't an onus on them to have to try to dribble in certain ways.

[01:14:51] They don't have to have the ball continuously in motion, or they don't have to have the ball on their stick. But what they can't do is actively prevent a player a, an an opposing player from accessing the ball.

[01:15:07] Ooh. Good point, Tugsi. Good point. Let's go. So shielding would have to be an act, have an active part to it. Sorry, I just covered up your comment. To be a foul, is that correct? Yep. Yeah. So I think, I think there's merit to that and I'd like to play with that idea more and, and see again, the important thing is can we come up with a common language to describe what we see and what ideas we have as to what is hockey, what is fair, and what keeps players safe.

[01:15:41] So the reason that we don't let players shield the ball and prevent access to it is because if I'm trying to make a tackle and I can't reach the ball because somebody's legs in the way, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna hit that leg outta my way, and now you have ice hockey, right? So that's the underlying safety principle behind our.

[01:16:02] Our obstruction rules. We don't let players prevent players from playing the ball with their sticks because we don't want people swinging each other's sticks cuz then we have Hurley, or we have lacrosse, or we have other things, right? So as long as we go back to these core principles and then we apply them to the way that we understand, the way that skills are developed, and then we describe them in reference to those things and come up with a common set of factors that we agree that we're gonna look at.

[01:16:38] When we interpret what facts do we gather, when we interpret a certain rule, we're gonna get to the same result. We should all get to the same result. If we're not as experienced at gathering facts, well, we gotta practice gathering facts. We gotta get our eyes on more games. If we don't understand the spirit of the rule, it's because we gotta get our eyes on more games.

[01:17:03] We have to understand hockey better. If we don't understand the interpretations, then you gotta come to me.

[01:17:13] Alright? Um, where we at? Oh boy. Oh boy.

[01:17:20] Let's go five metre infringements. You're gonna have to vote quickly. Folks. Vote quickly. Next. He's bounce back in his career. Let's have a look at this five metre, but that's a lot more than just goes. Yes, thank you. Bye. No five metres penalty corner given. That's what I thought. Dotted line sat the doted line from fives a dotted line from the circle, not from the other way anyway.

[01:17:48] Okay. Yeah. And that, that's, hi there. Can you look for five metres? The corner's been given cuz um, the players that tackled within the five metres. I'll check. It's not leave split. Yeah. You can see the difference between, between the 23 to the five metre line is not five metres, which is the question they're asking.

[01:18:09] But, but it's, but it's not five metres from there to there. I remember

[01:18:15] Martin does such a nice job of explaining this. Okay, so this is the point of the foul or the, of the taking of the free hit. .

[01:18:33] Okay. So let's see if I can pull this up.

[01:18:42] So here we go. Very clear on the 23, this distance here, this is 23, and then the top of the circle is the rounded up. I can say the 14.63 if you're happier. But that's 15 or sorry. Uh, hey, so this is the 23 and this dotted line is

[01:19:20] 20 metres from the end line 20, 23, 15. Now, the only thing I wanna point out before I go to the results is that there is an angle here. And as you get further away, so when this, when you get to this point, this actually could be five metres, but if you're looking at the top, the top of the dotted circle line, which is flattened out at some point, go look at the rule book.

[01:19:58] I'm not fibbing. I'm not fibbing. This is actually a fact. It's flattened out a little bit as it traverses across, and then it goes off on a curve again. So you could argue that because of the angle, this actually is more like a four metre distance than a three metre distance, but it's not five. So when I was watching this live, I focused on the angle that Wegnez was at and thought, well, that could be five metres, but it wasn't.

[01:20:31] And the call came from Ali, who was. In a position where she could see the distance much more effectively than Martin because Martin would've been back there somewhere probably directly in line with where these players were. So he's got flat, he can't see.

[01:20:57] Okay. But let's see what happens on the referral. Yes. And you have to listen carefully cuz Martin still having a lot of fun when Michiel breaks in, and that's why they can't have discussions.

[01:21:35][01:21:35] But let's see where you're all up with this. Let's see. How many of you voted? I hope many, many people, 13 people voted. Good job everybody. Way to get in there fast. Look at that. 54% of you said Free hit attack.

[01:22:09] Play on free hit defense. Nobody wrote in the penalty corner. penalty corner. You know, that was the call because otherwise, if it was just a, um, if it was just a, uh, free hit, it can't be referred, correct. But, um, yeah, that's a mistake in the poll that needed to have a penalty corner option. That's my bad.

[01:22:34] But at least you guys, you know, you understood. You understood what was happening there. Okay.

[01:23:37] .

[01:23:37] .

[01:23:37][01:23:37] . .

[01:23:37] So you can hear Ali actually backing up the conversation that the question that we had earlier about why does the player get sent away during, cuz she's saying we're not interfering, we're letting the video umpire do their job.

[01:24:09] Okay. And I'd love to hear what you think on this one, so

[01:24:19] I'll try to roll through it. A little bit more quickly. Time is a rolling.

[01:24:29] Okay. One of the complicating factors in this play is that the initial foot was, uh, unsighted, or the umpire was unsighted at the time the initial foot happened. So the ball rolls and things move and things get confusing and players have their arm in the air, and this is why, you know, just basic, the quick assistance is really important in order to get the best decision.

[01:25:06] Okay. So I'm just trying to scroll my replay to where it's gonna be very helpful.

[01:25:25] Everybody's very quiet on this one

[01:25:31] or I haven't scrolled the comments. Okay. Had a whistle not been when the attacker would turn into the goal? Um, oh, you're talking about the last one. Okay. Possession relevant and the attacker simply in the way and isn't playing the blah blah block and the defender from religion when we do so with the position.

[01:25:52] Okay. Um, see, Ian, the person in possession of the ball, I missed all of these. Could be shielding the ball, but the defender's not trying to play the ball, then it would not be a foul. Very good point, Sebastian. Thank you for that. Uh, another policeman is,

[01:26:12] Is that, I'm not sure who you mean. Yeah. And there's no PC option. That's my bad. Three metres plus sideways. Yep.

[01:26:24] Yeah. Uh, player can't go looking for a five metre. This is, um, magic monkey. What do we say about, I heard something somewhere. You know what we do is we send you back to the rule book and we say, go find the rule for me. Okay. We absolutely go and ask that question first. Um, a player can't go looking for a five metre call.

[01:26:52] There is no manufactured foul. There's no foul that says you can't manufacture a foul in the rule book anymore. Was that English? I don't know. That was removed. What you're gonna do is you're con gonna consider whether the ball carrier is actually disadvantaged by the actions of the defender who is infringing the five metres.

[01:27:14] And if you go running around and away from what is clearly a much more appealing direction in order to try to manufacture, trying to gain a penalty, you're gonna ignore that ish, right? Because there's no actual disadvantage. Advantage still exists. 12.1 golden rule stretches over everything. Has to be a pc and it was intentional.

[01:27:41] Uh, yeah, the player, you know, gold medalists, don't know, don't know the pitch. She seems to be five metres from the hit was, was taken. The Dutch attacker clearly brought the ball under control at the place of the free hit. Okay? So that was the first ground. The first thing that Irene had to look at was whether the ball was stopped and for a ball to be stopped we're not talking about dead. We're not talking about not rotating on a spot or anything like that. What we're looking for is, is there a clear indication where the free hits started, where the self pass started? Okay. That's really important.

[01:28:19] Uh, for Steven that you thought it looked five to you, you know what you're looking at.

[01:28:25] That's okay. That's me most of the time anyway, too. Polo, she also moves a couple steps back after the ball was played. Yes. Um, Alan, the ball was stopped. The players very close to five metres away. It's a very tight call and that's a very good point to make. Alan, it's, it's tight, so, oh, let's see. Am I getting the right one here?

[01:28:48] Okay, so. This is what we're looking at. Again, the player is 50 centimetres inside the 23. Okay, so she's at 22.5 maybe. Oh, I'm gonna get myself into trouble if I start using numbers again and then we have an angle between these two things.

[01:29:13] Oh, and this is not a good spot of the replay, but that's okay. It's gonna scroll backwards

[01:29:22] and hopefully what I did, this is supposed to pause right here. There we go. And zoom in. Okay. So for here we have a clear, this is where the free hit starts from. So although the Belgian team asked for the stop to be examined, I think we're good. Okay. There's even a motion over top of the ball and then that is the spot where it starts is right here and you have an angle and whether you look at feet in the moment or that sort of thing, as this play continues, now you've got, she is not on the dotted line and although she had one foot starting there, she does back up immediately.

[01:30:19] And was her positioning in that moment infringing on five such that you'd say, well you, she has to just step right outta the way and get even more than five metres. She's gotta get five metres away from this.

[01:30:35] I actually don't like that cuz I think she was more like here and then to here.

[01:30:49] So this is one of those cases, again, it's not necessarily about what the correct call is. We'll go to the result here so that you can Right. Have a, if you put the stick on the board motion to change your decision, you can restart with a penalty coroner and Ben shall lose the refer. Yeah, so, so in the video umpire booth, she's in the position that she's not going to necessarily, she's gonna look for clear reason why that was five metres.

[01:31:23] But what I want you to acknowledge in this case is look for an angle, look for where the tackle occurs. Look for whether there is disadvantage along this pathway, and that's gonna be important as we look at the next clip. Let's see what y'all think.

[01:31:47] And yeah, 88% of you are looking play on. That's kind of how I saw it too. And from an umpirical point of view in that standard, looking at the fact, yeah, I think that's pretty cool. And 13% of you, um, thank you for adding that Sebastian. Thank you for ma. This is why you get to add your own poll results.

[01:32:17] . Let's look at this one. This is our last five metre infringement, and then we're almost done.

[01:32:24] Happens very quick. A shield is called.

[01:32:52] So fast, I'm, I'm gonna give this like a minute, but think about what we require defenders to do if they are caught within the five metres of the free hit when it's initially given, and whether they are permitted to run alongside cutting off space and making it more difficult for an attacker to go in the direction that they want, for example, to get away from the sideline and access space.

[01:33:27] And does that motion disadvantage?

[01:33:37] See if the player had taken the hit from exactly where the offense occurred, slightly close to the goal, defender would not have been five. But she doesn't, therefore you think it's just barely five. Yep. That's fair. That's fair to say. Andrew, if the, if there had originally been a play on attack referred, it may not have been a PC on referral.

[01:33:56] Yes, and that's, and that's why I'm, I don't, I don't really wanna dwell on the result. I wanna dwell on the process. We get to, we acknowledge the angles, we look at the disadvantage of a player who has been caught within the five metres, and what do they do in that moment, which is what we're looking at right now.

[01:34:14] You see, there's a whole plan. I don't just throw clips at you willy nilly. There's a plan to my whole thing here. Oh my goodness. Henry Beardsall, what are you, oh, sir, I've missed you. Where have you been? It's one of those situations where the PC isn't over overturned yet, but if it played on asking, they wouldn't have got one.

[01:34:40] Yeah, that's good. Stijn, Verschoor. If I'm saying that correctly, I, no, I'm not, uh, stays in the attackers channel. Okay. Let's see what y'all think. Very quickly. Hopefully you've all voted quick, fast, quick decisions everybody. Quick decisions. It's like you're on the pitch. Oh, this has taken its sweet time.

[01:35:06] I bet you I'm gonna have to refresh.

[01:35:10] Don't worry. Oh, it worked

[01:35:16] okay. Ooh, look at that. That's a big percentage of you. So of the votes. More than 80% of you saw a foul in that. And that I think is very well done. And for the 37% of you who agree with a card and by say, agree with a card, I mean, you agree with me in my mind saying, oh my God, that's a card. Good work. I think that's what we're looking at there.

[01:35:42] Okay? Be on the lookout. Beware, as soon as you've made a decision against a ball carrier, what do they do? They may well have been caught out of position. Their team has been flooding forward. Especially if you're the Dutch team, you're as soon as you got the ball, there are just sprints, dead sprints happening.

[01:36:06] Your teammates are trying to get up the pitch because they score goals. That's how they win games. So if you've turned over the ball unexpectedly, Then your whole defensive structure might be well out of whack, and the players are going to be mindful of this and they're gonna look for the most subtle ways that they possibly can to make sure that that doesn't turn into a liability, that they can get everybody back in their defensive structure.

[01:36:35] And that's what I see there. Let's see. You think that the defender's position does disadvantage, the attacker being able to use the space, the defender's shielding and slowing the play down to help the other, yeah. Yeah. Don't use the word shielding there, because now you're bringing in the shielding.

[01:36:49] Shielding is a player in possession who is preventing, who is obstructing by preventing, um, an attempted tackle. Okay. So let's not use shield there. Language. Language. It, it sure does. Seems like a good green card opportunity. I agree. Depending on the impact. And, and again, in, in this game, particularly if you'd been watching the, the full game with me, you'd, you'd understand where some of that sort of conversation comes from.

[01:37:26] Okay, well done everybody. Last one.

[01:37:28] This, this is gonna be a nice and quick one, but it's fun to look at: aerial on takeoff. This play was fun! . . . .

[01:37:40] . Even Sarah couldn't read that one . . . .

[01:37:48] So we're …Tugsi, you're taking the mick. So there was the mention of danger. You can hear, um, Andy Halliday whipping that out because again, that's kind of the core of what the aerial takeoff rule is looking at. Is it dangerous to an opposing player when they have started five metres away? If it is dangerous, then you are going to call the free head game.

[01:38:18] So have get your votes in quickly and in case you can't see it properly. It's a, it's a valiant attempt, I believe in an interception of that aerial pass by the defender van Doren. And he gets a touch on the ball, legally, above his head, doesn't contact his body and does not cause dangers. That ball is deflected through this space in the circle directly at Sarah.

[01:38:51] And then she's got, um, the, the Dutch attacker there coming right into her grill. She knows he is on his way and she's just trying to save her own life. Okay? So there goes the deflection and it miraculously just dumps into a wide open space and you have the ultimate poacher's Brinkman goal.

[01:39:22] I agree you.

[01:39:33] Stand level play.

[01:39:38] Okay, let's see what y'all have to say. I told you we were gonna be fast. We're gonna be fast. 14 votes. Good work. Everybody. 63% of you're saying play on and goal. Okay, James. Okay. Obviously play on led to the goal. So now I have to add 64% to 29% and now I'm mathing and nobody needs that. I think. What is that?

[01:40:03] Is that 80? Is that 83? 84%. 94. 94%. 93%. And because I'm gonna subtract the free hit defense percentage. Look at this brain. Good job brain. 7% left for the free hit defense. Okay. So what we're gonna look at in this situation is we're gonna look at legitimate evasive action, right? Is one of our big criterion.

[01:40:35] And does van Doren legitimately evade this ball or does he attempt to use a skill as best he can to play this ball and fail?

[01:40:49] You can just keep it on that because speed trajectory, all that kind of thing. It's not even going really at him. So we're really just gonna focus on the LEA

[01:41:06] 100 minus seven words. Two, don't you do, I don't need this kind of sass from you, Mr. Archbold. It'll come as zero surprise. Okay? Yeah. I'm not surprised at all. Tugsi, change your survey. Uh, Andrew, legitimate uninvasive action. Unvasive. Legitimate unvasive action. That's hilarious. Not dangerous to the initial defender who has to jump.

[01:41:33] Yeah. He's jumping to get a stick near the ball and jump. Yeah. There we go. Thank you. All of you who are correcting my maths. I appreciate that, but what a delightful little play there. That was super fun. Okay, um, David, quick question. Sorry. Not because your question is funny, because, but the fact that you categorize it as quick, it is not a quick question.

[01:42:05] It is not a quick answer because David, you may remember, because you pay so close attention in these streams, that players cannot intentionally raise a ball with a hit unless it's a shot at goal. So the question is, if the ball is already raised, can you hit it out of the air if it's not a shot at goal. The rule book clearly has no effing clue what to do with this situation.

[01:42:39] Okay? This is absolute facts. Rule book does not know because back in the day when it was written like this, ain't nobody hitting the ball outta the air. Nobody had the skill to one time like that. And now everybody can any legitimately tactical. Okay? So the question as to whether that actually works, um, whether that is legal has been something I've discussed on several streams.

[01:43:11] I can certainly provide you with links. In the description so you can go have a look at it. Unfortunately, it is not a quick answer. I trend generally to let the players do stuff that isn't dangerous and shows off skill. Um, and that is definitely the trend that we see that just because it's technically already in the air and that raises the ball, we shouldn't get in the way unless it's dangerous.

[01:43:41] And then everybody says, but just because they did it safely here, it doesn't mean they're gonna do it safely and X, Y, Z. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But we don't stop players from attempting to develop their skills if they have a reasonable expectation to be able to execute that skill that they've been trying it, all that kind of stuff.

[01:44:03] Anyway, it's complicated.

[01:44:09] It's not a standard wiggle answer. It's the truth. It's the truth. Yeah.

[01:44:19] I'm just gonna take that one off the broadcast. Okay. A lot of people watch these streams. Okay. Um, great show. A lot of fun. Oh, here comes Andrew with another question. Hang on. If the trajectory of the ball goes over the circle before landing outside it, it needs to not be playable to height for five metres.

[01:44:40] That's only if that's a free hit. Yes. Okay. Uh, within the 23, uh, it needs to not be playable. It needs to not be legitimately playable if none of that. Um, does the height matter?

[01:45:02] Uh, it only matters in terms of danger on the way up. Okay.

[01:45:07] But yeah, we, I actually got to look at some aerial free hit straight into the d questions on the last show, which I will link in a card in a description, and you can have a look at those if you're watching this on replay or if you're like, I remember when Keely talked about this last week.

[01:45:24] I'm just gonna go brush up on my skills, then get over there and do it. Um, they're removing the hazard of the ball of the air ball, but hitting onto the pitch. Well, it depends on what happens with the ball. Sometimes hitting the ball out of midair above everybody's heads is the safest way to deal with the ball that's in the air.

[01:45:46] Sometimes it's not. It's very complicated. Very complicated. Okay. Um, just to wrap things up, since y'all are here and you don't seem to be going anywhere, cuz you're like, oh my God, I'm not gonna go, What Up Wednesday for three weeks? How am I gonna survive? Let me give you a little bonus content. I've been having a fantastic conversation with a person who will Rena remain unnamed because it's a Twitter DM and I, you know, I respect those things.

[01:46:15] But let's just say that this person has direct firsthand experience with the environment of which I'm about to speak. And after speaking about, you know, issues about swings and misses and things like that, there were two things that came outta our conversation I wanted to share. And one of them was, if you didn't have an opportunity to listen to the last few days, and some of the other times that Andy Halliday has been doing colour comms on the Pro league, you have missed out because I am utterly convinced that Andy is the most rules aware.

[01:46:52] Smartest and probably best looking colour calms or hockey. And when I woke up this morning at six 15, I live a really weird life. I realized why. I mean, of course he's smart, hardworking, blah, blah, blah, blah. But here's the thing. As an ex England GB team manager, who's probably been to, let's just call it 50 tournaments in his career, he has sat through that many umpire manager briefings, which are the presentations that the UMs give to the teams who are always represented by the team managers.

[01:47:33] Maybe occasionally a coach comes in, maybe, usually not, sat through those briefings and learned kind of like this not, not like this because there's only one of me, but they learned about. What the umpires are thinking, how they talk about things, what direction interpretations are going, all those kinds of things.

[01:48:00] I'm informed that Andy also really enjoyed these ex, these briefings and meetings to the point that he just wanted to them to continue, was frustrated that he couldn't even ask all the questions that he wanted to because he had more. And that is now reflected in the way that he does colour commentary.

[01:48:15] And, and there are times where I'm speaking in the watch parties and we are saying the same words. I just, you know, I just beat him to it because I talk over Dan Strange. It's the way it goes. Fantastic. So that was really cool. And just the recognition that, that's the kind of work that some people put into understanding rules and interpretations.

[01:48:41] And that's what, that's what it yields, is that level of expertise. So, good on ya, Andy. It's been a pleasure, uh, listening to you this season. I look forward to more. And the other piece of information that I gleaned out of this conversation was just how exceptional of a performance Sarah Wilson has been putting in and how much this particular person appreciated and believed that Sarah is the number one umpire in the world.

[01:49:09] Bar none. End of story. And if you didn't get a chance, if you're in Yellow and you didn't get a chance to watch the Belgium, Netherlands, final, Pro League final last night, which it was, you must watch it. You must. Because there are so many things to learn. In fact, I've been inspired. I might do a video to try to break that down because it's a story. The, the whole game was a fascinating story. And it was amazingly skilled and incredibly intense. There was drama, there was everything. And Sarah and Martin did a fantastic job at bringing what could have gone very off and pear-shaped, bringing that game back into where it needed to be was just on that absolute everything out, level of intensity, incredible skill, incredible pace, all that kind of thing.

[01:50:11] And to me, yeah, one of the best umpiring performances I've seen. Because it was, not because it was perfect, but because it was so dramatic and worked out for a variety of reasons that you have to see. So anyway. It was really cool to hear from somebody who has firsthand knowledge on the pitch about how they can see the same things that, that we are looking at.

[01:50:45] That means a lot. That means that we're on the right track, we're talking about the right things, and this will help us move in the right direction. So, uh, thank you very much Steffan. I am really looking forward to this break. Uh, Ka Kite Ano to you too. And you're in good timing. You are? Uh, it's over. It's over.

[01:51:07] Like we're ending.

[01:51:12] No, uh, David? No. The hashtag is, Keely is always right. Keely was right. I own the url. Keely was right.

[01:51:26] It's been a pleasure. I am looking forward to this break because I will be able to come back refreshed full of ideas and full of energy and vigor and full more of ways that I can keep bringing you the umpiring education that you deserve and you look for from me. So I appreciate you being on this journey.

[01:51:46] I appreciate you all letting me go for the two weeks. I will still be around on dms, but you know, maybe just keep it chill for a little bit. Um, there you go. And then yes, Jamie, and I'll be doing Brampton. I don't know if you saw, I put a picture of us at the beginning. Go back to the beginning of the show and we will come back in August and things will be.

[01:52:13] Bigger and better than ever. It's gonna be awesome. Thank you Tugsi. It's been a pleasure having you around and enjoy your, enjoy your breaks or enjoy your hockey if that's what you're doing. Cuz you're in the southern hemisphere or you like summer hockey. Who knows? Yaku, I'm really glad that you're here and thank you very much.

[01:52:34] I will very much enjoy. Have a good one everyone.

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