Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 126

📅 Aug 16 18.00 GMT
➡️ YouTube

We're looking at some key moments from the Men's Asian Champions' Trophy that just wrapped up in Chennai, including a goal off the body and a wicked yellow card advantage played to a goal.

There's an intriguing PC collision from the Oceania Cup Olympic qualifier series in Whangerei, a GK tackle from Facebook, and the bell has tolled: the PC trial is dead, long live the PC trial!

Join us for an expansive and educational discussion you won't get anywhere else, with the greatest umpiring community on the planet. ❤️

See you there!

🚨 Sign up now and nail those big calls with Mission Critical Positioning!

⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00 Chair Dancing
03:26 Topics!
05:32 1a. Men's Asian Champions' Trophy: INDvPAK Goal Off Body and More
20:06 1b. Men's Asian Champions' Trophy: INDvPAK PC For Foot and How To Cooperate and Present a Tough Decision
26:20 1c. Men's Asian Champions' Trophy: INDvPAK Rolling Sideline Free Hit
46:29 1d. Men's Asian Champions' Trophy: INDvPAK Goal after advantage yellow card
55:05 2. PC Runners, Obstruction and Danger
01:19:57 3. The PC Trial is DEAD, Long Live the PC Trial!

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

🟢🟡🔴 🏑

Transcript

[00:00:00] 🎶

[00:02:42] Welcome to What Up Wednesday! And am I going to say your name correctly? If I say Maurice, is it Maurice or Morris? Or you got to help me out here. But however you say it. Hopefully the sound came through. Did sound come through for all of you? I just don't know these days. Where's my sound panel? I have no idea.

[00:03:07] If it didn't come through, imagine a really annoying DJ Airhorn announcing that I'm very excited that Morries is here. Morries? Morries? Okay. Hi. We have a big show, many, many things unto which we need to apply our collective umpiring brains. This is what. It looks like Morries, I think I got it right. Okay.

[00:03:32] Anyway, here we go. PC runners, obstruction and danger. There's a whole bunch of things for the Asian Champions' Trophy. We're going to talk about the PC trial is dead long live the PC trial, a goalkeeper tackle, we are going to look at an aerial rules op ed if we have time from Peter d'Cruz and wow, what happened there?

[00:03:49] That, that went by really fast. I'm struggling. No sound. Ah, Can we get some heavy metal? Uh, Srikhanth, um, no, cause it's my show and I don't like heavy metal. I like 80s hip hop, R& B, modern alternative, alt pop, but that's it. That's all you get. And okay. I, I feel like I want to sort this out before we move in, because what if I have a vital, a vital, vital sound?

[00:04:25] Sound levels. There's my sound levels. iPad is muted. Sound effects, possible audio feedback. Okay.

[00:04:41] Huh. Muted, not muted. It should be working.

[00:04:50] Yeah, that doesn't look like it's working. Hang on. Uh, Ernst. Yes, I was late because I was trying to. Sort all this out. Um,

[00:05:08] Definitely, definitely not that. I don't know why my sound's not routing properly. Sorry. Hopefully, uh, the big thing is that the clips all come through because the clips are what we look at and try to analyze. And the audio from those can be very, very helpful. Like, with. These tasty treats from the men's Asian Champions' trophy that just wrapped up in Chennai, India.

[00:05:36] So we have a few that we're going to go through about all this. Uh, a link that is probably incorrectly truncated. You might have to copy paste that for the Sesh poll in our discord. Please weigh in. What do you think is this? A goal, a free hit defense, a penalty stroke, a penalty corner, I mean, there are so many possibilities.

[00:06:08] You're losing audio, if it's anybody else doing that, please let me know. Hi Murphs, good to see you! Let's have a look at this. The ball has been, uh, played in, uh, beating Shamshir. That was

[00:06:26] a mistake by Sumit, who did not see

[00:06:33] Shahid Hanan behind the save. It is on the rebound. That is key to this review.

[00:06:43] It has come off Shahid Hanan's body before going into the goal. Actually,

[00:06:50] a penalty corner for Pakistan for raised ball. Okay, so I cut it off before you get the answer from Mr. Sean Rapoport, otherwise known as Raps, aka. AKA, okay, my mic sounds to be fine. Uh, if Ernst says I'm good, then I'm good. Also, Rachel says I'm good. So I was tipped off to this because, uh, I get regular Google alerts whenever anybody says the word hockey and umpire on the same webpage, I get a good, uh, Google alert, because I mean, if you're going to stalk people, this is the best way to do it, use Google.

[00:07:31] And, uh, I got alerted to a couple of, um, A couple of articles that came out after this game. Now, look, it's Pakistan, India. We know what happens in these games. This is the rivalry. This is the thing, all that. But I was, my curiosity was piqued. So I'm interested in hearing if you have any feedback from me on this, because what happened out of this, let's see if this is going to go to the right piece.

[00:08:09] This was, after this ad closes, this was one of the articles that I found. Pakistan coach blames umpiring error after defeat to India. And if I can properly scroll, okay. Is that going to work? It's not going to work, but basically,

[00:08:39] oh, here, I know how to do this.

[00:08:46] Off to a rough start here. Um, oops, that's not what I meant to do.

[00:08:56] You can see the assistant coach, Rehan Butt, poor umpiring destroyed the morale of the young players, you know, one wrong decision derailed our momentum and the first wrong decision. And if I put a couple articles together, I kind of got a bit of a different piece, but this is what this, this, uh, what the head coach said, Pakistan, he claimed that Pakistan were in fact denied a legitimate goal in the second minute of the match because of an umpiring error.

[00:09:23] And this error was responsible for changing the momentum of the match. Umpiring errors at this level are not justified. Our first goal was legitimate after the umpire had played advantage. There was some miscommunication between the umpires and they got it wrong.

[00:09:40] So what do y'all think? This QR code, I'm adding features all the time. This QR code should take you to the poll in sesh. So I'm going to do the thing that Chris Pelmore doesn't like, and I'm going to start talking about. The play and giving my interpretation, because hopefully you've gone and voted already.

[00:10:03] The voting is not to say that you're right or wrong. The voting is an exercise in decision making crystallization. Because if we're on the pitch, we don't get to sit there and talk with our friends and call them and say, Hey, what did you think? So this was my thought process. That's the luxury we have here.

[00:10:22] But what I'm trying to do is to practice that skill. And then we go through the process and we find out if there's any. So, um, I think that we need to fill in with a different kind of understanding. Maybe there's an element of the interpretation that isn't prescient in your mind. Maybe there's a way that you haven't considered the rule that you and I, and all of your friends here can all talk about and find.

[00:10:48] A better answer, a better way to apply the rules to every particular fact situation. It's an exercise. So the point isn't to find out whether things are right or wrong. Although I enjoy finding out how people are going and how people are leaning. Because if I'm way out in left field. There's a lot I can learn from that.

[00:11:12] So there we go. So let's see. Uh, you just seen the photo. You need to change that picture. You got the wrong goalkeeper kit. Oops. Somebody's been sponsored. Um, Mr. Denman, you believe no goal because you can't benefit by fouling just cause somebody else fouled first. You're pretty sure this was one of the very first Ask FAQ questions.

[00:11:36] Yeah, probably. So Matt Collinge. Hi, if we haven't met before. Hello. Nice to have you. Um, saying PC raised off the keeper and dangerous and you think the commentator was right. Yeah, I don't get to say that too often, do I? That's kind of fun. Ribhu, what are you saying here? PC, in your opinion, you can't score a goal with the body, but it was raised off the goalkeeper.

[00:11:59] Yep. Scott, it may have been played by the attacker's body, meaning no goal. And he was a bit reckless, dangerous from goalkeeper. So PC, nah, he wasn't reckless. There's nothing reckless about what he did. Um, somebody is taking one of my catchphrases. Obvious decision is obvious, except when it's not. And you know that it's, it's one of those moments.

[00:12:21] Uh, that in a match, we have these little brain farts, right? We have these moments. And so if you're in this situation and you've made a decision and you're not entirely sure which, you know, you've called it and then you've got this terrible feeling, that's a really good time to actually call your friend.

[00:12:40] They're your colleague, they're across the way and they. They have a different mindset going into that scenario. You're trying to make a bunch of decisions in a key moment, and maybe those things all got conflated in your head and it just turned into a bit of a fart and then they have a more relaxed, bigger, broader view of everything.

[00:13:03] Yeah. Yeah. He did blame the umpires for this one and another decision. Um, but this one's quite obvious, this dude, Daan. Oh, okay. Replay squad. Good to see you though. And the Central Stage Wedding Band. Somebody was in the wrong YouTube login. Uh, Ernst, danger from the PC, uh, danger from the goalkeeper. You can't score with your chest.

[00:13:30] It's a PC, no goal for Ernst. Um, well done, sir. I think so. Hi Hang, good to see you. You're a friend of the Korean umpire when he was the center forward for the Korean national team. Three Olympics, I understand. You played. Three Olympics, and I'm going with you instead of Husic because that's what I heard Raps call him.

[00:13:50] And so I'm, I'm always mindful that I don't know which is a first and a last name all the time, and I can get them confused. So hopefully I've said that right. And by all reports, he's very, very popular, really nice guy out there. Um, okay, Murph, this is, this is one of you's styles. And what he does is when he's playing on, he'll put his left, he'll put, he'll put one of his hands up.

[00:14:15] So it's, but it's usually his left hand because. He uses a whistle grip, which I'm really not a fan of. I really hate whistle grips, but that's another thing. You and I, we're going to have a chat. I'm going to, I'm going to DM him. We're going to, we're going to sit down and, you know, talk about all the things.

[00:14:34] But he puts his hand up as a play on. So sorry, I'm like holding my hand up like you can see it, but like, just pretend this hand is straight up in the air and he's hand up and he, and he waves that on, he waves it on. Yep. Keep going, keep going. So that is a stylistic thing. Um, and yeah, in that case, it was just sort of, it was just a solid cause he didn't have a chance, but I've, I've saw him in several moments in this tournament, you know, doing, doing the wave it on, wave it on.

[00:15:01] I do that too. That's one of my things. I love to wave it on. Um, I don't look nearly as good as he does when he does it, but that's what's happening. Matt Bullin, two wrongs don't make a right PC, no goal. Um, that's why he referred to the umpire. Uh, actually India took their team referral on this. So it wasn't a self referral.

[00:15:21] And the way that you distinguish that hang is that if the umpire pats their chest, that means self referral. If they make the T signal, that means team referral. Okay. So a lot of commentators miss that too. They don't seem to understand the difference of the signals, but that's in the video referral regulations.

[00:15:39] So always there.

[00:15:44] This is very cool, Hang. Um, lots of family connections. Dad coached the Korean women to a silver medal. Love it. Oh, you have been here. There you go. Um, yeah, well, are you umpiring in your band again? Sorry, I'm having some voice problems. So if I have to drop, um, I have to mute occasionally.

[00:16:12] There we go. Um, Chris Durden. Hi, good to see you. Shayne, good to see you. Okay. And I am understood. Excellent. Okay. I am going to go to the results and then we'll look at what the poll says, if I can find that scene. So it's no goal,

[00:16:37] but it's can go back on field. The ball was raised dangerously off the goalkeeper onto the

[00:16:55] Pakistan player's body.

[00:17:00] So it's a worthwhile day for you, Ernst. This is what y'all said. Hopefully. Hmm. See, just when I want everything to work, it doesn't.

[00:17:14] Don't worry gang, it'll take me two seconds.

[00:17:20] Oh, if I didn't have to do a full reboot right before this started and my monitors weren't connecting properly, it would have been fine. Okay. Yeah, I really do want you to authorize. I really do. Just…

[00:17:46] The suspense is killing you, isn't it? It's killing me. A hundred percent. Ladies and gentlemen, I think this is the first time we've ever had a unanimous poll. And I don't care if there's only 12 of you voted. Oh, this is such a big moment. I'm so proud. I'm so proud. Who would like to notify the Pakistan coaching staff of the Rules of Hockey?

[00:18:16] Anybody, anyone? It was there, and please do. I mean, there's that too. Uh, one decision does not make a game, hang. And as I was watching the game through, what I noticed was that soon after this, um, this occurrence, there was in fact a referral by Pakistan for a foot that was incorrect. And it was not a foot and it was a difficult, you know, call because after the ball or as it was sort of passing in between the Indian player's legs after being deflected off a stick,

[00:19:02] he lifted his foot up. And, and those are sort of some of the cues that we tend to, you know, it, it tweaks our interest and we think, okay, that's, that's the foot, right? And from certain angles, we can all be mistaken. But one could argue that that is a team error that shouldn't be made. You shouldn't be taking a referral for something that you're wrong about in the first quarter of the game, because now you don't have the chance to correct something later on a penalty corner decision that is there.

[00:19:35] You only been on a short time. Um, yeah, no, it's all, it's all good. It's all good. I, I actually need to, they change it all the time. Right. So I'll find it out again. What day of the week it is? Have no idea. Consensus is great. Um, yeah, I, I know Siggy as well. I've, um, I've been instructed by him in coaching courses and he is a lovely, lovely human, but I wanted to tell you that little interlude about the Pakistan team because of

[00:20:05] what happened a little bit later.

[00:20:11] This is at the end of the first quarter, we're still

[00:20:38] scoreless. Meissner to consult Hyosik You. Hyosik You has communicated that for him it's a penalty corner. So we should continue with that.

[00:20:51] Bhuta is coming to talk to Tim Meissner. And, uh…

[00:21:03] The conversation is still on, it has finally ended. Tim

[00:21:10] Meissner has…

[00:21:12] Classic, classic problem is when, when the recourse to correcting a decision has been lost. Now, I mean, for me, when we look at those angles, it does appear as though that ball may have gone off the hand of the Pakistan player and fair enough. But what you need to understand is, first of all, you have a player trying to take their team referral, Ernst, and not having it anymore because they spent it.

[00:21:46] They lost it on an earlier, earlier, earlier referral and. One of the comments in another article that the Pakistan coach said was that that was an umpiring error and the, and there was a miscommunication again with the second umpire and they got it wrong. And I mean, it's, it's difficult to say from what we hear.

[00:22:15] Uh, whether You was giving the input that, uh, the commentators certainly believed was there. They did say You believed it was a foot as well and confirmed the decision. But what I wanted to do was to bring this out, not because of the decision. We all know that that is, that is the Bermuda triangle of our circle.

[00:22:40] It's so difficult to make correct decisions there. Because bodies will be in our way. It tends to be further away from our colleague and it's, and the action is across from our field of view. So this exact scenario is difficult to get right. So the learning moment that I wanted to pull out of this is that we can't tell what happens on a TV broadcast with the communication between the two umpires and what is being demonstrated is what it's not.

[00:23:15] So I want just to sort of just take a second and say, Hey, how can we at home make the best out of this situation? So if we believe that it's gone off a foot as the controlling umpire, and we've received confirmation from our colleague, think about how can I make that consultation big when we have radios, we tend to

[00:23:38] and you take in the information quietly and go, yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm right. Oh no, I did check. Yeah, that's right. But meanwhile, those small actions, that small conversation doesn't convey to anybody else on the pitch or anybody in the stands or the people on the coaching bench, what you've actually done in order to come about that decision.

[00:24:00] So make it really big. And even if your colleagues saying on the radio, you know, you can stop your time and go, you saw foot. Okay. You know, like do the, go through the whole charades and make it very big. Yes. Thank you. You know, give them the thumbs up, do all those things because that will make a significant impact on the presentation of what's a difficult decision.

[00:24:31] All those things may have happened here. Okay. And, and that's. This is not a criticism. This is just a nice little scenario that you can show how in a key moment, the way that you present it can help you sell those big decisions. And yes, Heng's saying that the umpire was unsighted from there. No self referral as possible is because it's for a PC, not a PS or goal, that's absolutely true.

[00:24:55] Um,

[00:24:59] and let's see, with the hand on the stick is not part of the stick. Yeah. And I think, I think that's why. But what you can see from the way that the ball's moving, that if, had it not hit the hand, it would have hit the foot. It was traveling directly along that path. And even as I look at it, I'm not entirely sure, like I have absolutely looked at a particular angle on a broadcast and say, Oh, obviously that's a foot.

[00:25:25] And then you see it from another angle go, Oh no, it's not a foot at all. And so I try to have respect for that. And that's why I'm saying it's not important what the decision is here. So, um, there you go. Yes. And Scott is reinforcing exactly what I was looking to bring out for that. Make it obvious, stop time, walk over as if you didn't have radios or do the charades.

[00:25:52] Okay. So it depends if it's a really big moment and stopping time and coming together will really help to diffuse the tempers on the pitch. That's a good time to do it. So I like that. And yes, it would be. And you forgot the self referral. Ernst, this is just a real, this is a real learning day for you. I'm so excited.

[00:26:15] Like this is the stuff that really makes me happy. Okay. Let's move on to the next scenario here. This is from the final, India and Malaysia. This was an incredible game.

[00:26:43] Yeah. I like the cards early, when they happen. It really helps to control for the rest of the game, and you're not giving the card in a more seemingly vital time.

[00:26:59] And Stijn agrees that it does work. So I pulled out this little segment, and I've been talking about this in our watch parties for the last three or four months, because I really have noticed trend. In, uh, the top levels of the game for players, especially because there are ball patrols and sometimes there are, you know, advertising boards or the, or the stadium, uh, bleachers are so close that the ball will rebound off and the ball will be close to the line or be moving towards the line.

[00:27:35] The ball is not placed on the line. And the player will collect the ball from off the line and just run it through the sideline. So I wanted your thoughts. The, the, um, the, the poll is there. So if you're, if you're on your phone and you're watching this on a big screen TV, cause why wouldn't you be watching this on a big screen TV?

[00:27:58] Somebody told me they were one day and I was appalled. And I've had pictures, people send me pictures and I'm like, my face is too big. This is disgusting. Please stop doing that. Look, just put it on a tablet. Okay. But you could pick up your phone and you can scan that and hopefully it'll take you, if I've done it right, straight to the channel, to the poll in Discord.

[00:28:18] So you can get your vote in on what you think. This isn't currently about right and wrong. Because I'm trying to suss out what the direction is at the top levels and how this is going to diffuse, because you know, what's going to happen here. We all do is that the more that people at home see this happening, the more that they will be trying it.

[00:28:44] Um, there are teams that do it very frequently in their matches. Sometimes they get hauled up and sometimes they don't. I will say that umpires are not necessarily consistent about when they apply a more strict reading of what needs to happen here. So what I want you to think about is when we talk about the stop for the free hit.

[00:29:12] Inside the pitch, what we're trying to achieve is understanding the whole reason we want a stop is not because it serves to hold up the attacking team and slow them down from the thing that they want to do. Okay. That's not the spirit of the rule. That can be a side effect, but that's not why we do it.

[00:29:36] The reason we do it is so that defenders know where five metres is and when they can step in and tackle. And the umpires know how to enforce that. If we don't know where a self pass is taken from, we can't enforce the rules. We can't ensure that the attackers have the appropriate room to do their cool stuff, and we can't make sure that defenders understand how far away that five metres is.

[00:30:04] In the case of a sideline free hit, we know exactly where it is. We know where the five metres is regardless. So why would we require a player to stop the ball on the sideline before they proceed? And I don't know if that's the logic that the players are applying. That's certainly the technique and the spirit that they're applying.

[00:30:30] If they've thought this through, then they should call me and we should have a chat, because that's, you know, That's some pretty deep esoteric kind of stuff, but these are the kind of things that I think about because when we think about why we want to enforce it in the game and what Raps has done here is he's, he's called this back for a restart.

[00:30:49] He wants it retaken and taken properly. In the moment that the Indian player runs through the sideline, the Malaysian defender is trapped within five metres and can't do anything anyway, and would have been trapped. Inside that five metres had the momentary stop been made. So the question I have for you, not a right or wrong, but something that we're going to have to start thinking about and something that I'm going to try to get some thoughts and opinions and find out how the briefings are moving on this.

[00:31:29] Do we want to restart these? Do we need to? Is it better for the game? Does it fulfill our need to be, to protect the skill of the players? And balance that out with our desire to promote flow and skill. Okay. So I'm interested to see what you've got on that. And everybody's still talking about the things that they control and what they can't and how to diffuse the situations.

[00:32:02] There you go. So for Steven, uh, you think if there's no defender around and no obvious advantage, then you tend to wave it on. You try to communicate that's what's happening. Yep. That's always good to be proactive and say, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. And to waive that, uh, so if they have to, if you have to double blast for the retake, they know it as well.

[00:32:24] Um, uh, Nilankanta could have made it obvious that he stopped the ball by pressing down with a stick and move on. Yeah, he could have done that, but with that, was that action necessary for us to understand he was taking a sideline free hit? Or did we already know? Did we know where the five metres is? Is he disadvantaging that Malaysian defender in that moment?

[00:32:52] Do we? Are we, are we actually putting more of an onus on the attackers by trying to slow them up for no reason other than to slow them up? You know what I mean? Proximity of the line of the direction need to be taken into account when the opposition is close enough. Yeah, this is a really tricky one.

[00:33:18] Okay. So this is my first blush on it and what I'm going to do is go back as I have a whole lot of timestamps.

[00:33:26] Tons from the pro league. We are going to see this at the Euros. We are going to see this happen a lot because teams that I noticed do this frequently are going to be in that competition. So we are going to see this happen and we are going to see, and I'm going to be tracking how consistent the umpires are in that interpretation.

[00:33:45] Is this something that they're talking about? What is their collective agreement on how to do this? Has, pardon me, has that been effectively communicated to the teams? And does everybody agree? What do the top coaches think? Do they, do they want this to be enforced or do they just say, just bloody get on with it.

[00:34:06] Get out of our way, umpires. Usually that's their approach. We'll see. Um, yeah, it won't sign you into Discord. You have to be logged into discord, but it'll take you to that channel. So if it's not a clear stop, a player could run a metre, realize. Um, there's nothing on and then say, I actually haven't taken it and pass it back to the line for another player.

[00:34:29] They could, but would you allow that? I mean, that's just like any kind of free hit in the middle of the park when a player takes it with some motion and maybe doesn't stop it dead, but we don't fall for that trick, do we? I hope not. I've seen, I've seen recently, I've seen a couple of plays. I don't know. I can't remember if it was in this tournament or if it was in the Oceania Cup, but there, there was, you know, one moment a player just kind of, you know, took the ball.

[00:35:03] Yeah, it was Oceania Cup. Uh, match three, New Zealand and Australia in the men's side of it. And the player took the ball and kind of muffed it and then tried to pretend he didn't take it, but he absolutely did. And the umpires are like, nope, that's taken off. Off it goes. When the ball goes through the sideline, it requires a restart.

[00:35:22] So that means it needs to be stopped. I'm not sure. I don't think the rules, the rule is no different than the free hit in the middle of the pitch. So do we just, do we require them to put their stick over the ball in that fractional moment as the ball meets the sideline? Is that what we're looking for?

[00:35:46] But the reason we want that is not to stop the ball. And Jamal, you and I have had this chat, so get with the times. We've had this chat that it doesn't need to actually stop rolling. It just needs to be a clear enough indication that that is where there's something different. In the roll, that's where it starts.

[00:36:08] The line does that job for us.

[00:36:14] Uh, was he trying to get a PC for the D not moving 5 metres away fast enough? Well, I mean, that's, that's for the umpire to sort out too. And if the retreating defender is not trying to occupy an effective or advantageous line, then… It's okay, right? You wouldn't, you're not going to, you're not going to be fooled as an umpire.

[00:36:36] Again, you know, the, the, the defender is doing their job. They, they weren't, they were actually kind of trying to change the line to make sure they weren't occupying a good one and getting out of that way. So I'm okay with that. Irian starting play from outside the pitch feels like a slippery slope, even if the ball were stopped or brought under control, feels like control would need to happen in or on the line.

[00:36:59] Um, I, I understand the slippery slope argument. Absolutely. That's one of the things that I, I worry about because then you start thinking about, well, what if a player passes the ball from outside the pitch? Is that okay? And then if that's not okay, then what's the difference between passing the ball and self passing?

[00:37:21] How much control do you need? As long as the same player touches it outside the pitch and inside the pitch, does that count as a self pass? So I can understand that is a good argument against, like I said, I'm not fully, this is just what I'm thinking about because I'm the kind of person, the kind of umpire who likes to get out of the player's way.

[00:37:49] Ernst will probably not think that that's the way I orient, but really it is. I don't like, I like watching good hockey. I don't like having to blow stuff, but I'm there to make sure that good stuff can happen. So if that isn't required, if a stop, if that stick over the ball, if the player halting their motion and coming to a rest and waiting one second, as the commentators said on the broadcast, which is not a thing, waiting one second is not a thing, um, if that doesn't serve the purpose of making good hockey, Why?

[00:38:29] Something to think about. The Malaysian players running away, says Chris Duerden. The umpire could have played on, but chose for a retake and maybe it was a bit, yeah. And like, I'm not saying it's not, I, I think I've seen umpires asking for this to be retaken and I've seen umpires just letting it play. And so I think we need to figure it out.

[00:38:52] Uh, Matt likes it. That's fair enough. Sebastian. Play's restarted by, um, when the balls cross the field and yeah. And so if the procedures for taking a free hit apply. The way that we conduct free hits in the middle of the pitch is the way that we should be conducting them on the sideline

[00:39:13] for the most part. Right. But why? But the why is because in the middle of the park, you, we don't have something that says that's where the five metres is. That's where the ball is starting, definitively. Like no question about it. That is a hard line, sideline, boom. It's right there. The 23, it's right there.

[00:39:41] So we know that that is the starting point. We know where the five metres is.

[00:39:49] According to 7. 2, yeah, but that, we don't look for motionless. We don't look for motionless. And if that is, let me see if I can pull that up really fast.

[00:40:12] Okay. Let's see if I can find the free hit really fast.

[00:40:20] Uh, motionless is not the word. The ball must be stationary is the word under 13. 2 sub a. But it's very clear that stationary is not applied as everybody stops. The ball can't spin, the ball can't do anything. It's a more fluid application of that. That is the standard, whether you like it or not, that is the standard.

[00:40:46] So just keep that in mind as we're going through this. Let me see if I can see what y'all think about this here question. Nine people voted. Um, so a hundred percent of you want it, want to see it, uh, of the nine voters want to see the same level of stop in all free hits, and that's okay. And Ernst, we non- umpires want three things to be consistent, only blow what you see and get out of the way.

[00:41:19] See, I'm good with that. So I want to get out of the way of this. I'm curious if we can get out of the way on this, because if this is something that we have to be fussy about, it's not going to be fun. I hate restarting the play. I hate taking the ball back because that ruins all flow. I wish everybody would just do the right thing in the first place, but that's not the way it works.

[00:41:43] In that case, uh, the Indian player had the advantage by taking it too quickly. So you would have stopped him as well. Okay. But I guess I, I would still be looking at in every situation, what advantage was presented by taking it that quickly. Were they, were they able to trap a player within the five metres because it was taken that quickly and otherwise they would've been five metres away, so it would've been safe?

[00:42:14] Not in that case. The Malaysian player was like two metres away from 'em at the most, so there was no marginal difference at all. And yes, the player has the advantage of being in full motion, but I'm not, I'm not sure that that level of full motion is. It doesn't happen elsewhere on the pitch. It seems like we're, we're looking for more of a stop.

[00:42:46] Um, Mario, the main issue, hi Mario, by the way, if we've just met, um, the main issue for the ball to be placed on the line is that a player plays the ball back out, and you've seen this a lot. It's more clear in the 23 is a red zone.

[00:43:02] Yeah, it, it makes sense in the situations where a player is passing the ball to a teammate in a. Self pass situation though.

[00:43:14] Can something be taken too quick if time hasn't been stopped? You don't think so yourself. That's a point. If you allow the Indian play to continue, then it is if play was not stopped due to crossing the sideline.

[00:43:31] Sounds good to me. What's the difference between 7 2 and 7 3? Let's find out.

[00:43:42] Um,

[00:43:51] okay. Ball outside the field when a ball's over the trough, when it travels over the side of the window that, uh. When the ball travels over the sideline and plays restart where the ball crossed the line, the procedure is taken for the free hit play. There is no difference. That is a repeat rule. I noticed that actually a little while ago when I was looking at it.

[00:44:06] I was like, oh, that's the same rule repeated twice. Gee, we've never had that happen before where the rule book's been a little weird.

[00:44:19] Were India pushing the boundaries of this during quarter one and quarter two? Um, it's not really about one team and when they were doing it and when they weren't. This is a trend that I'm seeing a lot of the top teams. And, and that's what, that's what players are supposed to do. That's what coaches are supposed to do.

[00:44:38] Try to push the boundaries of advantage and speed and all kinds of stuff to see what still fits within the spirit of the game, what are umpires going to haul them up on, it's their job to do that. And it's our job to figure out where it should end. So, and it's our job to do that in conjunction with the coaches and players, because at the end of the day,

[00:45:05] we're still fulfilling that ultimate goal of safety and fairness. So as long as we communicate that as a community and move that, that's how the norms of our rules shift and conform to all the amazing creative things that coaches and players come up with.

[00:45:25] What type of situation would you stop the play and play on? Um, I'm not sure. That's a, that's a really good question. And that's why I want to collect a whole bunch of examples of restarts and not restarts because that's the best way data when we collect it all together and pit it against itself, that's the, that's the way that we can best calculate, calibrate where we think the line should be drawn.

[00:46:00] So that's exactly the question that I should answer in a future episode. Could seven three suggest going on the side is different because out of the field of play, but that's what seven two says as well, so, It's not, there you go. Okay. So thanks for the chat and the thoughts. Um, it's, it's nice to hear that some of my doubts and hesitations are exactly the ones that you guys have as well.

[00:46:26] And that's why we have this dialogue. Let's go into the last scenario that I wanted to show you from the same game. Late. Kind of a big play.

[00:46:57] I'll come back to your comment, Mario, because it's a good one.

[00:47:05] No, I think it's a yellow guard actually for five minutes. I think it's to Azwan Hassan, but, uh, what a move this is again, counterattack by India. You have to give credit first to Shamsher for winning that ball in midfield. He nicked the ball off Azwan Hassan, and that is why he's got the yellow card.

[00:47:24] Because Sean Rapaport has gone back to that incident, and he has given him

[00:47:42] I should have clipped it from there because the poll is going to be a little relevant if you don't vote on this, totally fine. I forgot that I left that little slow mo replay in there on that version. Because when you watch this in the first moment, the, the, the brilliance of the goal and the excitement of the moment certainly takes you.

[00:48:06] Out of the framework of thinking about how do you need to manage the situation for the rest of the game? And I want to give full props to you and Raps on this. It was a team effort between the two of them. I believe it was you who actually was giving the number. Of the player who, uh, turned, uh, who got turned over closer to the center line up there.

[00:48:35] And in the moment you're not thinking about that because you're like, oh my god, they're going to come score. And then you're watching for that foul. And you're watching for the next foul. And so you're looking at the two Malaysian defenders who were involved in trying to make a tackle inside the circle and failing and thinking, Oh, are they going to break down the play?

[00:48:51] Is that going to be a penalty stroke? You know, you're looking at, you're looking for those things, but it's really important as a team to be able to keep present, keep in mind why this whole play happened. And when we talk about preparing for breakdown play, being able to prime yourself, we talk about, uh, tackles that happen just outside the 23 or just outside the circle.

[00:49:18] We talk about a player getting caught out of position. So they've gone on a mazy run up the field. It's the center D and all of a sudden they're in the opponent's circle. And the ball gets turned over and then all of a sudden you see a tackle come in and the defensive structure is allowed to reassemble.

[00:49:37] And that, the other key moment that you watch for is when an individual player gets turned over, they lose possession of the ball, and they're caught. And they're just gonna turn and swing, just as number 20 did in this situation, and try to get a whistle to stop what's about to happen, which is… That's the kind of hockey that we want to see.

[00:50:03] And yes, Matt, an absolutely amazing finish. So some might look at this moment, fourth quarter, it's the go ahead goal. There's five minutes left to play. Something spectacular has happened. It's like, Oh, you know what? Is the goal enough? So I don't know if anybody's voting on this. Let me go take a look and just sneak to see if, if people are going to the seven people, a hundred percent of you are going, you know, you're pretty good at this.

[00:50:34] You guys, a hundred percent of you would have agreed that the yellow card at, for this tackle should be made. And we have to keep this. Kind of perception and awareness at the forefront for ourselves as well, because there still are four minutes and 30 seconds left in this game. And it's very important that a team that is scratching they were up three one and The tide started to turn and with just some subtle disruptions of momentum, they could get back into this game.

[00:51:09] They could score that goal and you have to stay right on top and make sure that it's fantastic displays of skill and speed and strategy that win the game and not devious little breakdowns of play. So you got to catch the moments when they happen, you've got to send the messages and you've got to reward the team that has not fouled.

[00:51:31] By giving them that player advantage. Okay. So that's all I wanted to say about that, friends. I hope that was really good. I'm going to come back to Mario's, uh, comment back here on the sideline ball. And this is absolutely, um, a good point. And one of the things that I've thought about when I've gone through this discussion in my head, that.

[00:51:58] In order to play the ball, it must be played inside the field, which when the ball is on the line counts as being inside the field. But the question then Mario is,

[00:52:15] do we consider the player touching the ball outside the field to bring the ball to the line as playing the ball? And is that wrong? But as soon as they're on the line, they're playing the ball legally inside the field. So, you know, like we're, we're getting really into the. Into the weeds and the penantry of it.

[00:52:39] And I love that. I love this, but do you see what I'm saying? You start, there's nothing wrong with a player. A player could stand outside the sideline and do a little Indian dribble, pop it up on a stick, 3D, so long as they play the ball. At the line.

[00:53:06] Time to think about. And yes the accumulation of cards during a tournament is a thing. Yes. We don't have in the same fashion as football A very strict two yellow cards means You get a ban because were not sportsball and we have Good rules that take into account that in the moment there should be some kind of punishment, some kind of disadvantage to a team who's broken down play on the field at the time.

[00:53:37] We're going to open up this game. We're going to make it more exciting and faster.

[00:53:44] But there is a general sort of rule that a tournament director, for example, in a competition at the FIH level, we'll look at two yellow cards that have been accumulated by the same player and they'll read the little yellow card. That's not a little form. They'll read the yellow card report form to see what the reasoning for those cards were.

[00:54:06] And then they may or may not choose to schedule a disciplinary meeting with that player and the team's manager to talk over, you know, how they're feeling. How things are going and how they want things to go for the rest of the tournament for that player. Because if there's a trend that that TD doesn't want to see, and this isn't about tripping players up, this is about giving them an opportunity to be aware of what we're aware of as umpires.

[00:54:39] And as tournament people that we're aware that there could be a tendency here and you don't want to be the one who gets caught. You don't want that. We just don't, we want to deter the behavior, not catch it because we are sneaky, sneaky, sneaky, which hopefully if we get to Peter's op-Ed article is something that we will be able to talk about on that.

[00:55:03] So let's go to our next topic.

[00:55:10] Penalty corner runners, obstruction and danger. This was the Oceanic Cup and this came to me from a referral from Reddit. Scored number of intentional, so it went back, back to the original footage, was and found a better set of angles. Trapped Russell Flex. Saved and another penalty corner for New Zealand.

[00:55:31] The umpires are just getting together to make sure they get the For full context, this is the third quarter of the third game of the three game series of the Olympic qualifier. Govers involved in some conversation with one of the umpires and he wasn't overly happy to hear from Govers. A very important game.

[00:55:52] He's thinking about a card here. I think that's what the umpires are discussing.

[00:56:02] So they've gone for a referral. So out to, out to Russell, the flick. Is that contest in the, in the middle of the pitch, two players coming together?

[00:56:18] I'm totally sure when the PC was called, precisely. That's the contact, just out of your screen there, and whether Zalewski here… So the behind the goal footage has the incident a little bit out of shot, but hopefully by now. So Finlay's trying to, I think, go across the pitch here to distract Australia.

[00:56:38] You've seen it enough times that you've picked up that there is some contact on the attacking runner. I love when commentators say, certainly not deliberate. Because first of all, they're usually wrong. Second of all, that's not always the only deliberate is not the only word that we need to consider.

[00:57:05] It's not the only concept that we're going to consider for this. So please do go and have your say as to what you think about this, because this is not an easy decision. Okay. So as I said, this is the. Third and ultimate game in a three game Olympic qualifier series. The loser of this series has to go through a much more trying qualification set in order to get, uh, to Paris.

[00:57:39] It's expensive, it's risky, all that kind of stuff. Some other things to consider about this, and I'm sorry that I have to go on about this yet again, but we have umpires being appointed who are not neutral. This is not about those umpires because they don't get to choose their games. They get told what they're going to do.

[00:58:04] And all of these folks, particularly at this, in this area of the world, know that they are, because of their geographic isolation from the majority of top level competition in the world, they are not going to get the same level, the same number of opportunities that their colleagues in Europe are. So if they want to do top quality hockey, they want to stay sharp.

[00:58:27] If they want to prepare for Paris, they have to do these matches. So they're not going to turn them down. And if you turn down matches that you get appointed to do, you don't get appointed to any more of them, by the way, that's a thing that happens. So I just want to voice that as part of the set of pressures that is on this umpiring team to make sure they get this call right.

[00:58:55] Massive, massive.

[00:59:00] I missed a bunch of comments on the last one. I'm really sorry, everybody.

[00:59:06] Um, let's see. Would I go straight to yellow card for this? Um, so from the last set, the India Malaysia game, as it turned out, Matt, Malaysia had received three green cards previously and India had received two. So as I was watching this game in the watch party, when the third Malaysian green card came out, I said, I can understand why.

[00:59:30] There was 10 minutes left. I can understand why they went with a green card somewhat, but I didn't agree that that was the best option because. It's still allowed too much latitude for the next breakdown breakdown tackle. And lo and behold, it happened. We're giving cards because we want to stop that behavior.

[00:59:51] We want the next 10 minutes, 20 minutes remainder of the game to be as clean as possible. So would I have gone with a straight five minute yellow card for that particular, if nothing else had happened in the game? No, I wouldn't. Because the impact on the game was not so large, and it was not a repeated behavior.

[01:00:13] 'cause if it was a repeated behavior, I sure as heck should have given cards for it earlier. Okay. So I hope that helps Matt. We can talk about that more in a bit. Um, yellow card was given because the, if the umpire did give the free hit out, he would've given the card anyway. Um, yeah, yeah. That's part of it.

[01:00:30] You haven't voted because you watched it with me. Yeah. . There you go. Uh, what would you suggest if there was more than one breakdown attempt before the goal occurs? Uh, pick the worst one. Totally depends. Totally depends, Luke. Like there's so many variables in that. Was one of them more physically dangerous?

[01:00:49] Was one of them more impactful?

[01:00:54] Hard to say.

[01:00:59] Huh. Uh, for this one, is it for this one or for the last one? Let me know. Mario, you had attackers obstructing the runners in a PC last Saturday. You blew out. When you see it, you should. This is one of the hardest decisions in hockey because in the precise moment that that kind of. Impact, collision, or more subtle form of third party occurs.

[01:01:32] You are, you have just made a decision about whether everybody has broken the line at the right time. This one,

[01:01:46] let's see if I can fix this fast. So you're making a decision as to whether that, um, the break has been good. You're looking to see if the ball is gone. Outside the line or not, you're looking for other kinds of collisions. You're waiting for the, uh, shot and the height of that shot to see whether it's going to be too high or not.

[01:02:08] Like you have so many decisions to make in other areas.

[01:02:31] A lot of times you

[01:02:38] can find it now. This might take me a hot minute. Okay. So that is why it can be such an incredibly hard decision to nail down. I have had some really good discussions with. Um, a few, uh, can't comp sorry, you're just going to put your opinions in here. I can't edit this one for some reason,

[01:03:08] but there you go. Yeah, I, I must've miss, I must've mistyped the, uh, the time on it. Uh, so Luke thought, yeah, the most impactful one, it's a good criterion, but you might want to go for the most, but if something's physical, you might want to card both anyway, so many variables, right? And yeah, this is why you have two umpires on the pitch, but even then.

[01:03:35] Even then, it can be really difficult to get that right. Is that a foul injection too? Okay. Does Simon Child step on the line as he's injecting the ball? Yes, he does. And that's, he does that every time. Do we need to start making a deal out of this? Maybe, I don't know. Ernst, what do you think? You know, as, as somebody with a, uh, direct line to the top coaches, do you think that this is something that you would want to.

[01:04:09] Uh, so this would be the same if he was stationary and he's got his foot on the line and he injects and a goal is scored. We know that that is not grounds to reverse a decision. Okay. So we know that part. Is this something that you would restart, reset the PC for? And should we start doing that?

[01:04:34] I don't like it. I like preventative, right? I like preventative. And if you've noticed that players do this, you know,

[01:04:46] talk to them. But of course he's not looking at his feet. When he's doing that, um, no intent. New Zealand player is not looking where we're on. So foul for New Zealand is what Ernst is saying. Everybody else, you know, let me know what you think on this one. Um, Stijn, you've got a free hit defense and a five minute yell card for you.

[01:05:06] Uh, the defender is stationary where he has all right to be. Um, the jump was not intentional, but wild. Sebastian wants a free hit defense and a five minute yell card. Free hit defense, the attacker wasn't looking and then jumped when he thought he could run into a player. Possibly no card though. Uh, do we then encourage danger from players not looking where they're running?

[01:05:29] You wouldn't restart a PC for the foot on the line. Okay, good to know. And I'm interested in what… You know, is this something that we want to see because that's what it is. It's not, it's not a foul. It's not a free hit defense. It's not even an early, like it would just be a reset.

[01:05:53] So Luke, your first question is why is the attacker jumping? And the follow up is, did he accidentally catch the defender and take him to ground? Did the defender block the attacker's progress?

[01:06:04] Right, so the second part of that, I think is really more of the key because you're trying to figure out who obstructed whom, right? That's the central question in all of this about that. Uh, the jump is about avoiding the collision, so no yellow card for you. The, uh, Mario, they injected the ball in a group of four or three players and moved out of the direction of the runners and then blocked them from reaching the striker.

[01:06:37] Sorry, I'm just trying to piece it together. I'm just, um…

[01:06:47] Struggling to sort of go with that, so.

[01:06:58] And so I, I understand the idea that a player who realizes that I don't know. As soon as I start saying those words and then I watch him do that, I can't keep saying those same words because it seems like a lie.

[01:07:21] Danger isn't just about wanting to try to do something harmful. Danger is about having full control of your body and doing something which is reckless to the safety of another player. So this player here is in full control of their actions. They don't jump in the air because they're off balance. And that's the only thing that a body can because physics.

[01:07:48] Okay. He's in full control and he makes the choice to jump into the air. It is a high risk, very high risk with potential for a lot of danger in that moment. So that lack of caution, lack of respect for another player's safety has to be something that we take into account. If you intentionally jump at a player like that, we've got a whole nother story on our hands, don't we?

[01:08:21] Like intending to hurt them, but just because you don't intend to hurt them, doesn't mean that you're not intentionally making the action that results in the harm. And if you don't think that by jumping into the air, you're taking a risk that you're going to clock somebody at full force,

[01:08:41] chile.

[01:08:44] His initial line caused the need for evasion. So no discount for that. It looks a bit, it looks a lot like other sports that they play. In other sport areas, many sports ball. The inserter has two feet in the field of play. Yeah, Ian, we just covered this part. Uh, you popped in late. I'm glad you're still here, but we talked about what this is.

[01:09:07] The remedy would just be to reset the PC. So it's, it's something that is one of those little, little technicalities. And honestly, Ian, I want you to focus on the big call here. Okay. It's not impressive to notice that Simon Child has his right foot on the line. What's really impressive is knowing what you would do in this situation or starting to work through it with us.

[01:09:38] But they jumped to avoid worse. Ah, but he does create the danger. Okay. I think you're almost there. Steffan. There's a trail for the PC to look at danger. So can look at this. Um, so I believe you're talking about a supporting umpire and absolutely. Okay. So the process that happened here, as far as I can understand it, what I've gathered,

[01:10:09] um, the more you're looking at it, the more you feel it's the attacker obstructing the defender causing the danger. Um, then again, you know, the player, not a guy to go for the crash intentionally. He doesn't mean to hurt anybody. We're not saying that players are evil. We're saying that they're in control and sometimes they do risky things.

[01:10:28] That's a risky thing. If he hurdles the guy… And manages to leap, I don't know, three and a half, four feet in the air, because for some reason the player is crouched. Like, how does he think he's going to jump over the guy, Ernst? I can't.

[01:10:47] It looks like the player defender stopped and stepped left. Okay. So try to calculate. The attacker's line and the defender and what they do is part of the dilemma that they had. And if that's what you see in the moment, if you see a defender going into that line and trying to block the attacker, then you've got an obstruction by the defender.

[01:11:10] If you see it more that the attacker is running an intentional line and because it's quite straight that no matter where the defender had been, that they were going to third party obstruct them at some point. Okay. And I think it's, it's difficult Mario, because when the, when we're walking, watching from behind the goal, it, we, we see, we see that we see that motion more and it, it's a little bit, I think, potentially deceptive.

[01:11:45] And you love how the controlling umpire diffuses the immediate emotion while showing that he's in control and wants to sweep this boarding umpire. Yeah. So what happened is, what had happened was, is that. The umpire went to a self referral in this case, because their decision was a PC, but they can refer for situations where they think there might be a penalty stroke or a goal that they have a question about.

[01:12:13] So I believe that that's where this went to. It gave the controlling umpire an opportunity to speak to their colleague and they got that colleague's opinion, but with the self referral, we're able to get it looked at by video referral and get them to look repeatedly. The camera angles were not beautiful.

[01:12:35] They were not great. The picture is pretty terrible. Like this is what they were, this is what they were dealing with. But in order to get that third view on it. I think that really helped them in the end with this decision, which I'm about to show, but let's see. He does make the mistake. It's, yeah, uh,

[01:13:01] it's so hard not to show that I disagree with you Ernst. I'm trying to be open. So that everybody votes and I can show what the result is. Stefan, you think it's free hit defense for this because regardless of the intent, the outcome is, uh, by the attacker's own obstruction. Yes, he tried to avoid, but the defender's in the space first.

[01:13:22] What was the PC originally given for by the way, uh, goalie out the, uh, back line or the collision? Hard, it was hard to tell. It was hard to tell in the moment. There was a lot going on. Um, they did not. They only had this. Yeah, I could. They had 50 frames per second, I think, but they had really not great resolution.

[01:13:48] And you can just, you can see that from the angle of the sun and the pictures and stuff. It's just, it, it was not, this was not pro league level of stuff. Okay. So let me play what the result was. From the players point of view, uh, they're offscreen at the moment. The majority of, um, the Australians are taking the gear off.

[01:14:07] Not all of them. A bit of a mixed bag is what they think is going to be the outcome here. That's absolutely true. I mean, I feel that way. I'm not quite sure how they're going to rule this.

[01:14:18] Well, a card is coming out. That's how they're going to rule it. And New Zealand… I'm going to lose a player for five minutes by the looks. That's exactly what has happened.

[01:14:32] The challenge from Australia, a good one.

[01:14:37] Yeah. So that ended up being the results and it was a 10 minute yellow card because of the high physicality and danger involved. And that is in line with the FH briefing. If it wasn't a 10 minute yellow card.

[01:14:56] God, now I'm doubting myself. Did I get that right?

[01:15:03] I'm going to look that up really, really quickly because. This is what happens if you're not sure, you should, you should go check, right? If you're not sure about a rule, open up the rule book. If you're not sure what the, what the decision was, then go look up the match and open up the match sheet.

[01:15:24] They were lucky to have electricity running water. Uh, let alone decent, uh, coverage. Yeah. Chris, the New Zealand player doesn't look where he's going. The Australian player stops before the closure point. New Zealand, yeah. New Zealand player goes, keeps going with a jump to try to avoid. He's out of control.

[01:15:41] So I like, I like that logic and cards and, oh, it was just a five minute. Wait, no, I'm on the wrong game.

[01:15:56] Hold the phone. Go to the right game, Keely. I was like, wait a minute. That wasn't Simon Schaal getting that yellow card.

[01:16:10] That was a 10 minute yellow card. I was right. Okay. I just, you gotta have that. You gotta have that right. So, um, previous cards of the game were just a green card to. And then later in the game, there were two five minute yellow cards given to Australia right at the end of the game, because they were trying to preserve their 3 1 lead, by the way.

[01:16:39] Um, no, I, I don't think it's the, I don't think it's the wrong call whatsoever. I think they got it spot on to be totally honest. Um, no votes recorded. Sorry, everybody. Um, there you go. And Ernst, I think. That part, part of it can be is to really try to, to work through what it is that the umpires are trying to prevent.

[01:17:06] And, you know, you saw the pro league when Harry Martin got taken out by the runner and getting absolutely smoked in the head by an attacking runner, um, crossing his line. And I've been talking to players about this issue and how concerned they are that we are struggling as umpires to pick up these.

[01:17:27] It's intentional third parties where they're trying to create space as a tactic in order to open up better attacking opportunities on penalty corners that have been failing, you know, more and more at that level. So that's what they're, what they're there. Thank you very much, Steven. Have a good day at work.

[01:17:52] Um, yeah, I mean, it would have, it would have been a tough sell to say that that wasn't disadvantageous to a player, like. Yeah, that would have been tough not to tie to the team penalty because of the contemporaneousness of that. It's not really misconduct after the fact, is what I'm trying to say. Uh, Australian player established defensive position, New Zealand attacker had no need to jump, wasn't looking.

[01:18:28] I mean… That is a, that is a play, that is a programmed play. So whether he was looking or not is kind of an element, but also like they are trying to run those lines to try to create obstructions. Like, it's, it's, this is not an accident. So they know that there are collisions that can happen and it's their job not to run into a defender's space when they're already there or they've gotten there first.

[01:19:02] So, um, absolutely. And there's, there are, there's a lot of umpires who still play, who still play quite a bit and whether it's high level or not high level, it's. Yeah, Tommel still plays, so he's, he's not, it's not like he's completely detached. Like a lot of these top umpires still play on a regular basis as much as they can, given their schedules, because it helps them in these moments with the empathy and understanding and putting all those pieces together.

[01:19:36] So it's not always accurate just to say that they don't know what is really going on in the game.

[01:19:46] And, okay, how are we doing for, what? Okay. We are not getting to Peter's article. I'm sorry, because we'll very quickly go through this. The PC trial dead, is dead, long live the PC trial. As you all have already heard, this is no longer going to be the case. The FIH re evaluated, um, whether they, Um, they re evaluated whether it was wise to go ahead with this.

[01:20:26] They have reiterated in their tweets, and I'm sure to communications to the national associations, that they are still examining the question. And here are my thoughts about this. First of all, I actually wanted. This trial to go through, not because I thought that the rule change was a good one, absolutely not.

[01:20:52] I thought it sucked, but I want the data. I want to see it. I want to see that it's no safer. I want to see that the goal conversions dropped. I want the proof. Because we still don't have the proof it's, and it still it's, it's actually put the FIH in a worse position now, because as I mentioned on my impromptu live stream on like a week and a half ago, there are legal considerations to changing rules because we're talking about player safety.

[01:21:25] And if something terrible were to happen in a given moment, something accidental. Of, well, I, I, I, you know, a fatal incident, uh, a severe injury that happens from this. There will be questions asked and those questions could well be asked in a legal forum because an insurer may decide that they do not want to cover this loss.

[01:21:56] Because they believe that there was negligence by the rulemaking body, by the rule enforcing body, by the player in question, by so many people, and they may decide, Oh, we're going to fight this. And we're going to deny coverage and let's go to court. And so everybody gets pulled into a lawsuit and then we have a fight about it.

[01:22:17] And what has happened now is that the FIH has taken another step towards giving credence to the idea that the PC is dangerous as it stands. So they've actually kind of weakened their position publicly this way. If they had gone through the trial and seen that actually there was no improvement in the safety, there was no difference, no statistical significance in different numbers, that could have given them at least the ability to say, look, we tried doing it another way and it's actually not safer.

[01:22:54] The way we play the game is just the way we play. Like, it's just, it's just. Shots are dangerous, end of story, right? So that's another reason I would have liked to go through. I also, as I mentioned before, really disliked how underhanded it felt for the, for whoever received the communique that was intended to go to all the national and continental associations first, and for them to apply to the FIH and say, we would like to do this experiment. This is where we can do it. Please give us the instructions on how to do it. That's how it was supposed to go. It wasn't supposed to be court of public opinion. And I still think it reeks of sabotage and. The FH does so many things wrong and I actually thought they were going to do something kind of right.

[01:23:51] They needed more time for it. They should have like prepared and maybe they did. Maybe there were things going on behind the scenes. We don't know about, and then Ennies knew it was coming and that kind of thing. But I just wanted to see the proof. And now we're not going to have it. And we're probably not going to have anything happen until after Paris now, in terms of a trial.

[01:24:14] And I like the idea of a trial rather than a mandatory experiment, because people get confused about mandatory experiments as well. And thinking that that means that something is entrenched. I mean, how many people asked me, what about this rule change? I'm like, it's not a rule change. You're not doing it.

[01:24:34] Trust me. You don't have to worry about it. Until your national association tells you that you're going to do it and here are the forms that you're going to fill out, you don't have to even think about it,

[01:24:47] but there you go. Um, yeah, disappointed about that. And yes, this is something that I covered in, and I'll, I'll put a link. If you're watching the replay, I'll put a link, but it was two weeks ago now. Um, I, I prepared a whole bunch of research about this hockey nines. PC alternative and had just never gotten around to doing the actual video for it.

[01:25:14] But I had all this footage and I had the background, you know, the, the. With the regulations and the slides and I'd gone through a bunch of footage to try to see how well it worked as best I could and I pulled it together for the show two weeks ago and, and pulled a collage, uh, collated the penalty corners from one particular set of highlights.

[01:25:39] And put that forward. And yes, it was, uh, Rick Charlesworth's idea. He's obsessed, as Hang says, with goals and the criterion for excitement and the draw card to the game. And. Um, it's just as important, the thrills on the pitch. Uh, I'm getting confused by the, the words in the order that they're on, but I, I think, I think I understand what you're saying there.

[01:26:08] Um, yeah, a lot of mandatory experiments, as Steven's pointing out, talking about, you know, no kicking backs and things like that. We, we are accustomed to them often becoming rules. A mandatory experiment often becomes a rule, but this was a rules trial. It wasn't a mandatory experiment. They used a different set of language.

[01:26:28] You had to apply to do it. You couldn't just do it on your own. a whole thing, you guys. Um, as you understand, the communique was only circulated between a few senior national bodies rather than all of them, the FIH were trying to gauge interest as well as concerns, and then it was leaked. Yeah, that's what I understand too.

[01:26:47] And it sucked. So, um, just collect the data as is. Well, yes. And I sure hope Ernst that that's part of the by product of this is that they will, like, as of whenever they're collecting data, but it, the idea of having a A/B sets is a good one. It's a good one. Even if you don't like the idea, having the data to show it's a bad idea is a good thing.

[01:27:18] It's a very good thing.

[01:27:23] That's a Keely hour, I know. Um, yeah, I, I'm sure it did. And I know Gonzalo Pelliat was very upset about the idea as well. And it makes sense. As I said before, these are people who make their money, who are professionally, who are professional drag flickers. That is their big value to the game. They do a lot of other things as well, but that's what sets them in that top echelon of the best players in the world, because they fulfill that role.

[01:27:53] And that is a valuable role and they get paid to do those things. So you can't just do these things willy-nilly and not realize that it has real life and economic impacts and career impacts on certain players.

[01:28:14] Um, and, and that's what's hanging over heads. We get it. Um, yeah. And, and so they need to start being, I mean, this is the thing is that we're asking bodies to collect data when they don't have enough money to pay umpires. We're asking them to, to be able to do things in a systemic, accurate, and complete way, because if you only do it for some of the games and you don't do it for all of them, useless.

[01:28:51] If you only do it for men and not for women, useless. If you only do it for professional players and not for amateur players. Useless. If you don't, it takes a real comprehensive effort for the statistics to be managed. If you had a controlled A, B variable where everything else was kept the same, the level of play, the gender play, the time of year, the whole thing.

[01:29:13] And then you ha the only thing you varied was what kind of penalty corner was played. Now you have a data set. Okay. So it does work. It does matter, right?

[01:29:28] I'm trying, I'm trying. So,

[01:29:40] And, and that's not the point, Steffan. It's not about will from other people. It's, it's about, it's, it's about the rules come from the top end of story. So anyway, that's the end of that for now, I guess. Um, I hope to see more.

[01:30:07] Did somebody do something? Somebody did something. They might've subscribed. My Streamlabs.

[01:30:19] Hey, it worked! Morries, it's, thank you so much for subscribing. Yay! I won you over at the end of the, the thing. Okay. Um, yeah, and Hang, this is, this is, I, I talked about this. I mean, I just, as a very, very one dimensional player myself, the only thing I've ever been able to do on the hockey pitch is hit the ball really, really hard.

[01:30:45] That doesn't mean I think that the game should be confined to hitting the ball just because it serves me. I'd prefer to watch games where more players can do more great things. To me, has more tension and drama and more excitement. I just, I'm just not a fan of the drag flick. I just don't, I appreciate the incredible skill, but I don't, I will watch a free play goal any day of the week.

[01:31:11] I want to see them aerial, just do 3D, boop boop. I want to see deflections, I want to see slides, I want to see… You know, that's me. Um, it's not that straightforward to assess. Yeah. And you know, because of the epidemiology, um, disease epidemiology and health and safety. Yeah. It's. Which, if it were easy, everybody would do it.

[01:31:38] Uh, Steven says that EH has actually got SportsSmart set up, which is an external provider for tracking injuries from a club level, but the clubs have to apply to get it, then it rolled out. You know, see, there's always layers of complication. Yeah, actually, can you, can you do that thing? Do that thing where you do that thing, you do that thing.

[01:31:57] That'd be nice. If you've gotten value from this, if you're sitting here going, man, this is just, I've just wasted 90 minutes of my life, then first of all, why are you wasting 90 minutes of your life? And second of all, I'm really working hard here. Okay. Um, the last little play that I want to go through, cause.

[01:32:18] Uh, no, it's been 90 minutes and more than 90 minutes, and this one can wait. We can talk about it in the server, maybe. And we can talk about Peter's article in the server, maybe. But what you need to know about what's coming up, of course, is we have euros. Start Friday, which means, you know what that means, friends.

[01:32:43] Watch parties galore. So we are going to be doing at least two games a day for the whole duration. Some of it depends on what these fantastic glasses can help me out with. I've really just, I have to be good about getting off this thing and out touching grass a little bit more to try to not have migraines.

[01:33:11] So I'm working on it and hopefully. Um, we'll be, we'll be able to do at least two watch parties. That's for yellow members. But if you've been thinking about, um, a yellow membership, some things are changing a little bit. If you go to fourth wall and you look at our members page, 37

[01:33:49] a month now, but it includes all your courses. So mission control positioning is included. Communication skills is coming out in later September, and then the control elevator will come out in. November. And so every two months, a new course will be added to that. An asynchronous course that you can take on your own time and you have forever access to.

[01:34:12] If you have already purchased mission control positioning, mission critical positioning, and you decide that you would like to take up on this offer, I will give you that 37 towards your first month of yellow membership. Okay. So I'm, I will honor the fact that you've already invested in that. And we'll go forward from there.

[01:34:36] If you were a yellow member and you got it for the 1750, then, you know, we'll, we'll talk on that. Okay. But the other thing that yellow members have, as you know, is that they have access to the watch parties. I am considering a green level of membership that adds to the access to the clip library, watch party access.

[01:34:58] I would like to hear your thoughts on this. If this sounds like an appealing thing, you're not interested in the courses and you're not interested in debriefs of other people's matches, which is two of our big mentoring. Activities, coaching activities, but you think that there's value in being able to access the clip library and then joining us for watch parties.

[01:35:22] Let me know. I'd like to hear about that. Uh, Sebastian says that watch parties are so cool. So that's good to know. Um, yeah, my favorite goals. You prefer real goals too. There you go. Uh, yeah, and that's kind of sad. That's kind of sad. I always thought that was pretty fun. Um, do you need a specific watch?

[01:35:47] Yeah, um, it will track your hockey minutes on your watch. You just press start and. A little icon will come up and the more time you sit like this, your watch tracks it.

[01:36:07] Thank you very much. It was nice to see you again. And Elsabe's here. Oh my gosh. This is U. S. Funds. Yep. And Rachel loves the Westbrook. So you want the green plus watch parties. Okay. Ernst, come tell me how much you would pay for that. How much should I charge? I don't know how much to charge for it.

[01:36:24] That's my problem. Okay. We will convene in the server for our little after chat and my, Esteemed panel of advisors can give me some more input. We start at, I think it's 9am my time on Friday, Friday night games in European time for Euros. I don't know what I'm going to do with what up Wednesday and all that stuff for next week.

[01:36:52] I'll figure it out. I'm sure it'll be fine. But Euros is like a magical time. It's almost as much fun as the world cup and Olympics. So get on board if you're thinking about it. It was really nice to have you along. And I appreciate all of your support as always. If you haven't done this yet, you know, if you're feeling it, if you're feeling it, I'm not here to tell you what to do, there you go.

[01:37:19] And we will see you in the server. Have a fantastic rest of your Wednesday or Thursday. If you are living in the future, of course you're esteemed. You've always been esteemed. Bye for now.

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