📅 Nov 15 19.00 GMT
Aerials are hard; let's figure out how to make them easier. Also, when a goalkeeper gets thiiiiis close to the 23m line and how we process the decision. Plus: do we even like rugby enough to include their time extension rule? (Is that what it's called? 🤷♀️)
Bonus clips and Rant of the Week at the ready because you know we'll run out of material. Right?
See you there!
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⏱ Chapter Markers:
00:00 Chair Dancing
04:13 1. Aerial + Collision for PS
52:03 2. Managing the Penalty Stroke
01:16:07 3.LST Brings Rugby to Hockey
01:27:22 4. KAM v PIN 5m or Danger
01:36:38 5. Aerial Goal Behind the GK
Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.
Field Hockey Umpiring | FHumpires on 2023-11-15 at 12.06.03
I'm getting old, I feel the weight up on my shoulders, I'm strong enough, I will rise above, so I'm gonna be okay.
If I can be anything I think I'm gonna be me. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. I know I got to be me. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. I won't go. I once I'd rather be. I think… I think I wanna be, I think I wanna be, La la la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la I think I wanna be, I think I wanna be, Everything's changing, just runnin out Oh, I keep on believin I'ma gonna find my way With everything, I'ma get it, I feel the way Up on my shoulders, I'm strong enough I will rise above, it's all gonna be okay If I can be anything, I think I'm gonna be there.
I think I'm gonna be, I think I'm gonna be I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be Be, be, be
Happy WhatUp Wednesday, or Thursday for those of you in the future. Keely Dunn, FHumpires, you're the third team and I am so glad you're here. We have a massive show. There will be things. And we will discuss them and it will be great. Good to see so many of you in the comments. And, uh, I am trying to say hello and bring all that up beforehand.
And thank you very much to Mike McCartney who provided the lovely. You know, it's a, it's a really great accompaniment cover slash whatever we want to call, uh, that great performance in the intro. And I didn't know how to get it. It's a long story. I have some things to coordinate for that intro scene, but anyway, there you go.
And yeah, it's, uh, I'll do it better next time. Anyway, this is what we're talking about today. Here we go. We have an aerial plus collision for a penalty stroke. I'm sure you've seen it on the intranets. A goalkeeper outside the 23 meter question mark. Uh, let's stick together brings rugby to hockey. Uh, kampong and pinoke, five meters or danger.
Hopefully we'll get to these and an aerial goal behind the goalkeeper because I like happy stories. That is very true. So I think we're probably going to get into it. Uh, hi, Mr. Denton. Good to have you. Let's see how this goes. Hopefully my audio is doing well and the sound effects are coming through. Oh, long range aerial now running side by side.
Heywood's going to get back and Hugh Snowden is upended. But this one, so watch, so Jeremy Heywood there is pushing. So he's just trying to body him out on the right hand side. So I think that, I thought it was going to be a penalty corner immediately. Okay. So this one comes to us from Hockey One League in Australia.
And big thanks to Luke Barnard for bringing this to my attention. And of course I got it from about 14 other sources cause it's a, it's a big call, it's a big play, and there's lots of questions to have about it. Uh, just your friendly reminder that we are in a no drag zone. And what we are doing here is looking at ways that we can make it more possible for our fine selves to make this decision the best we can in the future and understand and practice our decision making skills.
So poll is up. Please go vote. I noticed that some people are going ahead and voting, uh, like a day in advance, cause it's like, you know me and you know what topics we're going to uncover. And thank you very much. Appreciate that, Rachel, because, uh, that's why I was a little bit delayed. Had some audio problems and had to reboot everything before we got started.
So good to know. Okay. So as we're examining our situation here, um, we can sort of separate this out into two different, maybe three different issues. And the first of which is the Arial that starts things off. And the aerial clearly comes from well beyond, I bet it's probably around the 23 where this thing is coming from, and it actually bounces at least once, maybe twice, before it comes down once, twice, before it gets into The circle, and it's, so we can talk about that first as to how we would parse this out.
Now, the ball appears to be going basically into a space that's parallel to where the two players are running. So you can make an argument that it, the aerial itself is going into two players, therefore is dangerous, and therefore that should be a free hit. Defense before we even get into this, uh, we get close to the circle.
However, I think when we're looking at this level of play in particular and the speed of the ball, the skills of the players and that sort of thing, what we actually, I think the, the, the more reasonable interpretation or the one that respects the player's skills the most is to say that that is an aerial into space and there is no initial receiver.
At any point. And people often ask me, Keely, when is the aerial over? I don't know. Is it on the first bounce? Is it on the second bounce? Is it when it bounces at this height? And for me. I have always believed that if the purpose of the aerial rule and five meters and control is about safety, the rule stops being an aerial when you don't need to have those protections in place in order to keep the players safe.
So had there not been a third defender, namely the goalkeeper, in the situation, by the time it gets into the circle, this would have been a ball. At the time of contact, at the time of attempted reception that I think these two players could have contested safely. So for me, the aerial itself is not an issue by the time we get to the circle.
And because I don't think the players are in the receiving area or attempting to receive the ball prior to that, I don't think that we have any five meter infringement any other way. Okay, let me know your thoughts on that, but I think it's important to go through that first, because if we don't have that sort of sorted, then we're going to struggle when we get on to stage two and then to stage three.
Okay. And, um, Luke number four, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what's happening here, but I'm sure I'll figure it out someday. So once we've got through that. We can now look at the actions of the defenders. So the defenders in green and the yellow shorts here. And I struggle a little bit whenever I show these, uh, clips on audio because I'm aware of how incredibly influential the narration of the commentators is.
And it works on me too. I know that my own opinions start getting formed sometimes in opposition to, if I'm reacting to a commentator who I don't have a lot of respect for or confidence in their opinions, I immediately think they got to be wrong. It's got to be this thing. But generally this, the omniscient voice, then the voice of authority that accompanies these clips really does sway us into thinking.
So I want you to try to separate out what you heard and just be looking at the play itself and let's see if I can pull up the, um, okay, that's fun. Oh, that's cause I don't have bezel running. Don't worry. I can fix this. I can fix this. Bezel is up and do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,
still looking forward to hearing. Let's hear your thoughts here. There we go. Bezzle, bezel, bezzzzleee! Here we go. This is where I get to have fun and play.
Okay. So this is where I'm looking at the actions of this defender here, as the players are running towards the circle. And we can zoom in really nice and big. And what they are doing to play the ball, dispossess the attacker, or potentially break down play. So, I'll slow this right down to two and a half.
And then we have stage three. But I want to keep stage two independent, first of all. Okay? And then we can potentially consider them together. Okay? So, you've got the defender who is, And even if there was an, uh, an aerial question here, they are completely focused on what the attacker is doing. And the attacker sort of has a look at the offender and then he's looking up and there is…
No attempt by the defender to play the ball. They don't attempt an interception. They don't, you know, reach their, their, their, their stick up. They're not looking at the ball as the ball has now dropped in front of them. It's simply there. So the words of the commentator or the color commentator particular as they chimed in was to say.
Um, well, look at what Hayward's doing. He's pushing from behind. And I do believe that as the players are moving into this area first, and we can do it, we can do it this way. It's, this is the problem here. Is there is an intentional interference. With the, uh, attacker here, and that disrupts how this player is able to attempt to receive, to play, and to move as they wish throughout the country, around the field.
Okay. Um, let's see what you're thinking here before I move on. They're moving away from the balls dropping. Okay. Oh, hi. Thanks, Jeanette. Good to see you. Um. So, TAF, they're moving away from where the ball is dropping, yes, and so I just think that that has to be part of the commonsensical way that we apply Arial.
And that, that's the reason that I go, don't call things a landing zone. I don't think that's good terminology. I think that leads us down a path of looking for the ball landing. So we think of it on the ground, which doesn't always apply. And we're as if that is the most important thing rather than what the players are doing vis a vis the ball.
Does that make sense? And that's why I always talk about a reception area because the reception area is the active. It's also all about the, uh, work of the players to try to receive the ball.
So galuk's also happy there's no infringement there. And thank you, Anthony.
I literally own a URL that says keelywasright. com, and if you go to keelywaswrong. com it forwards to keelywasright. com. Just you know, uh, Simon Ariel's okay with, uh, the cottage, but the shove by the attacker. Into the goalkeeper is not, uh, for Daniel, the defender was pushing, could have given away a PC, potentially a card, for a high impact breakdown.
Okay, we'll get back to that in a sec. Defender doesn't make an attempt to play the ball. Stage 2, you're seeing the defender interfering with the attacker's attempt to play, with no intent to play the ball themselves. Yes. And for the Marigliano family, I forget, I forget what your first name is. The, the member of said family who likes to come in all the time.
It's always nice to see you, but, um, yes. I'm not, I'm not centered in my circle today. I'm, it's bothering me.
Uh, PCNeil card for, uh, Muriglianos and Daniel. Could it be a penalty stroke for the push by the defender on the attacker as he enters the circle and pushes the attacker to the goalkeeper? The foul continued into the circle. And you very much agree. Okay, so let's, let's get into that stage of things now and how we're going to break that down.
So, I think, as I'm watching this, this is where the bulk of the offense is. This is where the disadvantage occurs. And if we carry on slowly at this point, I don't think there's as much pressure from behind. I mean, Hayward's very, very experienced top player. He knows that at this point he can leave the job to his goalkeeper.
And I don't think he's actively pushing with the same emphasis. But the problem is because the defender or the attacker wasn't able to do what they wanted to do outside the circle, they then weren't able to do something to get around the goalkeeper later. Okay. And I'm phrasing that very carefully because In my view, the goalkeeper hasn't done anything wrong here.
And I'm, I'm happy to hear if you agree or not, but the goalkeeper is in an area where the ball is, in my view, no longer an aerial and is standing stationary. And it, the onus is on the attacker at this point to get around them, but I don't think the attacker can. So if you treat this as an advantage situation, are you able to play advantage through this particular, uh, passage here?
Does this player have the same degree of opportunity or better, the same level of opportunity, chance of success, as a penalty corner that is awarded? That is what we need to see for advantage, that allowing play to continue is a better option than stopping play and awarding the team foul.
And I think at this point, the attacker is now shifted in front and is trying to collect the ball, which he was prevented from doing before. And then he tries to get around the goalkeeper, but he just really can't. And I've, I saw a couple comments where people were saying, he jumped into the goalkeeper.
Shut up. He didn't jump into the goalkeeper. He tried to get around him and he couldn't. Okay. But likewise, the goalkeeper didn't do anything wrong either. So the disadvantage occurs for me, not inside the circle. It happens outside the circle. And then you can't continue. You can't ask the attacker to try to do something where he really doesn't have good options, doesn't have possession of the ball, doesn't have good opportunity to do what they would want to do.
And therefore an earlier penalty corner. You know, as early as you can is sort of a better option. So let's see what y'all are saying here. Um, playable area and term replacing. I wouldn't know. Why can't you call it a receiving zone? What, what, what's wrong with my words? Because the reason I don't want playable is because now you're getting into.
Um, you can confuse the concept of playable distance, which is a very strong term that we use for obstruction and occasionally for benefit gained or no benefit gained. So, uh, the defender actually pulls out of the engagement. Anthony agrees with that. Uh, prior engagements, defender is part of play. Uh, Alistair, you see a lot of areas at low level that don't quite make it in bounce.
Can you help you with a set of properties that would determine when an arial stops being aerial? Okay. That's a really good question, Alistair. And I think. I, I want to put some more thought into it, but here's an early step and we can follow up on this in the server later. I think what we're looking at is, as I said before, do we still need to apply the principles that are embodied in the aerial rule at that point where the ball is bouncing?
So as you say, you umpire aerials don't get particularly high, but you're also. Umpiring players who don't necessarily have the skill level to handle the ball in midair as well as players at this level. So they need more protection from each other. Juniors, you're going to be a lot quicker on a whistle.
You're going to be a lot more active. You're going to call things a lot tighter simply because they don't have the skill to do this. And the experience to know what they should attempt and what they shouldn't attempt in a game. You're going to call things earlier, you're going to prevent the danger from occurring as much as you can, which is why the aerial rule is there.
And as players become better and better at understanding, more and more skilled, play more and more within the spirit of the game that has evolved in their experience, the less we have to interfere. And that's why the rule keeps retracting, contracting. Down. Fewer and fewer restrictions. More and more ability for the players to figure it out themselves and not be jerks.
Gotcha. I will remember.
Uh, we can all benefit from centering ourselves. I don't know what's happening. Not centered in the video. Oh, yes. Is my halo… friend? It's been a, it's been a long time since anybody thought there might be a halo around this head. Um, so, he initially tried to play the attacker, stops the engagement. Yep. And, and I think that's…
You know, the only good decision you made in this track and play. So for George, uh, having not blown it out of the circle, outside the circle, it got messy and the easy decision was outside the circle. Yes. And you know, that is, that's the tension that we have. As soon as we allow things like attempted interceptions and things like that, we're, we're trying to sort out when do we need to make our decision?
Cause back in the day. When I was a young lass umpiring international hockey, we were guided. Our, our coaching advice was to call it as soon as we could while the ball was, you know, taking off because that was the best way to ensure player safety. And at the time that made some kind of sense, but I've told the story before how I was at a.
I was at Pan Am Cup, I think in 2004, 2006, and Mercedes Margalo pulled me aside after a game they played against Chile and said, it is our team's strategy to aerial the ball into their circle. We have been trained to back off outside of the five meter area. As soon as the aerial starts going up, we're going to back off and then we're going to come in and pressure.
That is our game plan because. Chile is like stacking within 23 meters of space. So the only way we can get into their circle or the most effective way for us to get in the circle is to get in behind them with the ball and then come flood the pressure. So if you call it too early, if you don't give us the opportunity to back away.
We can't achieve our goals. And I was like, that's really smart. This is why talking to players is a good idea. And so, the, the understanding of players to say, we respect that we need to make sure that this is still safe, but that means we need to have the opportunity during the course of play to do the right thing without being penalized before we've even done the wrong thing.
And that's the course of how the aerial rule has changed. Um, yeah. Goalkeepers establish their position. Goalkeepers stationary throughout. The ball makes contact with the, um, with the ball and the goalkeeper leg guards, you presume the umpire looked at the whole scenario when awarding the penalty stroke.
Uh, yeah, yeah. Because if, if there is no reception to be made, then we don't care what the aerial is, right? It's all about an initial receiver. It's all about an interception. It's all about. You know, that sort of thing. And then the, the playable zone, we start getting into playable distance, which is a defined term inside the arrow rule as well now, as of, you know, the current change.
So, okay. So I put all those, I put those three stages of decisions together, interpretations, whatever you want to call them. And the net result that I get to is something that I saw with several of your comments is that I would see this as a penalty corner and a yellow card for. Uh, play that is not just reckless as to the result, but quite intentional to break down, uh, the attacker's opportunities.
It's high impact, and so I can't remember where we are in the game. It's quarter three with five minutes left, and I think it would have been quite reasonable because of the high impact. So if we look at the RDI framework, Of repetition, danger, and impact. The impact is so high that on its own, standing alone, a five minute yellow would be an appropriate decision for how impactful that breakdown is.
Okay. Let me know if you disagree. Uh, you see anything else? Um, if there had been any repetition, um, the danger itself, I don't think is really caused by the foul. It's, it's, uh. It's an antecedent. It's a, it's a, it's a cascading consequence, but I wouldn't blame the defender for the danger that then occurs because of the collision.
Does that make sense? Those two things are, you know, unfortunately just that accident that happens as a result of the first. Let's use a Ben Burton. What?
I think my sound effects work. Let me know if they do
Phil you notice the umpire starts with a PC and upgrades to the penalty stroke as he blows his whistle. Yeah, and so, okay remember we couched I contextualized before we started the clip and And, you know, we're here to support each other. We're here to, to learn from the things that we're seeing. And I think it can be very fair at this point that many people have pointed out that there's a way to help us not make.
These kinds of decisions, and I think it's, it's starting to get to this point now where I just, as soon as I see a clip, I, I want to contact the umpire and say, can I help? Can I help, please? I want to help. And many people, or some people, you know, were in their efforts to be supportive and constructive.
And we all appreciate that. We're saying, well, you know, this is a tough, tough call. And it's, you know, these are big aerials and all that kind of thing. And it's like, well, if you, there's a, a large number of players, I mean, we have, we have two at the front, but there's quite a few players here when the game is spread out the way that it is.
That is really far distances, and you have players who can air real ball 60, 70 meters down the pitch. There is zero need for you as an umpire to be high up in support of your colleague cause you're in effect, abandoning your post, your mission critical area, in favor of helping your colleague and putting four eyes all on one area of the pitch that you don't.
You don't necessarily need to, because there are fewer bodies in the area. There's a less congestion because the game is so spread out. You have sight lines in between. We've all had the experience where we've been around the pitch. We're on the bench, we're up on the hill, we're up in the bleachers, and we're far away from the play, but we can see a foot clear as day.
You don't have to be close to see most of the important things that you need to see. You need a clear sight line. You need clear vision on the ball and you need not to be running and not to be moving your head or looking over your shoulder or any of those things when you're making big decisions.
Mission critical positioning would have helped this entire situation immensely. So if I were going to annotate a drop of, uh, Over the top of this situation. Okay. This, this is the beginning of what we've got from the highlight reel. So I don't know where the ball came from, but there are, there is one attacker who is already distant.
One of the things that I like to say is, I mean, as soon as the ball is with the, what is it, the red team here, that you have to get yourself closer to the goal than they are as soon as possible. You just have to, because they're probably going to outrun you. Realistically speaking. Okay. But there's, there's quite a lot of traffic in this area.
So mission critical positioning would have been had the ball started. As a free hit on the distant 23, an umpire actually would have been here. Yes, inside their 23, in the interior of the pitch, not the direct middle necessarily, depending on which side it came from and as the aerial comes, all they have to do is back up straight to their happy place and you get such a great view of the ball in the air of the.
It's the receiving area of all the other people who are coming towards you. It's all straight in your periphery. No looking over your shoulder, no panicking with being at a dead sprint. None of those things. And from here, you can still see lots of great sight lines up through the middle of these players, because there's so much space on the pitch because they're playing so spaced out.
There is nothing harder than umpiring amoeba hockey. And slow players who all congest around the ball. That is the hardest thing to do because there is no sightline. Right? Not the case here. Okay. So mission critical, you're here and you just back up straight. Okay. So for me, that's one of the biggest learning points that I take away from this and the, the, you know, needing to, to try to change your mind and what you're seeing.
As this, as this develops and it, the traditional style would have always been, okay, let's go around here. Like we run this J hook as a habit and how many more yards, meters, I can't believe I said, as soon as I say G hook, I revert back to old school, but how many more meters do you tag onto your running every time when you run loop D loop D loopy circles and hooks to get to where you need to be instead of just.
Straight line, A to B.
So I, I hope that that helps with. That importance. And I would like to just kind of throw this out here because I've had quite a few of my umpires coming back to me and a lot of people getting assessed and coached in, in the last few weeks. And they're frustrated. They're frustrated because they've done the NCP.
They've, they've received this kind of coaching. And they're saying to me, my assessors tell me I'm too inside and I'm not supporting high enough of the pitch. Now, it doesn't mean that when you're doing MCP that you don't support up the pitch. You absolutely do. You do leave your zone quickly, but you don't have to go as far.
You don't necessarily all the time, occasionally, occasionally, you might need to go as high. But not nearly as frequently as what I used to when I was… You know, umpiring old school and coaches, we have to be better than this. We have to get smarter. We have to shift our thinking. We have to stop giving shit advice to umpires who are trying to do their best, because this is what happens.
They are trying to please us as coaches and assessors, instead of trying to make the right decisions in the game. Stop it. The game has moved on from us. Okay. We're the olds and our job is to be as neuroplastic as possible and keep up with what's happening. I'm having a rant of the week and I've already got a couple of those saved up.
I know I'm preaching to the converted, but there might be some people here who haven't heard me said, say all of this. Then, um, I hope that helps. Uh, DJ Airhorn, please? Wait.
Okay. Uh, let's see what's happening. Uh, Taff agrees with Phil. Maybe he thought the goalkeeper did something in terms of… Yeah. And it would have been hard to see from where the umpire was. And when you see a player go to ground, and you don't have great vision on it, what do we do as umpires? We react strongly because we are, our first goal, our first mission, our motivation is to, is to try to, uh, is to try to, uh, keep the players safe.
That's our goal. Like, we're not trying to get things wrong. We're trying to keep the players safe. So that's the reaction that we… That we are, our knee jerk is I got to do something. I got to do something big. Uh, Sebastian from this angle, it's hard to see what's actually going on. Absolutely. And you're not entirely convinced there's a lot of pushing.
Yeah. I don't think there's a ton of pushing, but there's enough of a breakdown interfering with where the attacker wanted to go here at this moment. And then there's less pushing that happens as the attacker approaches the goalkeeper. That's how I see it, Sebastian, maybe, um, and maybe that's not entirely fair.
And let's see, you've often said that, uh, sometimes, Anthony, sometimes things look bad, but it doesn't always equate to a card piece. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There are still events that happen that are outside of our control, that are outside of the player's control. They just happen. They're just accidents.
Um, amorphous critical mass of players. Where's the hockey? Uh, you've umpired a lot of this. Yeah, it, it really doesn't, it doesn't help. Okay. Oh, you're welcome. I'm, I'm here for the air horn. Okay. Let's have a look to see what you guys all thought of this. And if any of you changed your mind, if you, uh, enjoyed the analysis, Oh, no, that's not what I wanted to do.
Let's try this again. Continue in browser. Look, I, I'm not here in these streets trying to let Discord time out. But I think I do have to find a different way to, oh, really? Does everybody want to tell me what I'm supposed to click here? Click on the image containing the largest animal in real life. Well, none of these animals are in real life and clearly they're all produced by AI.
So, and how do I know? Like. This panda doesn't even look real at all. So, oh my goodness. This is frustrating.
I need to, I need my music. I
mean, did I not do it right? Was there a hidden large, like, was there a blue whale somewhere that I didn't know about?
So, let's see. We have 72 percent of you, 71 percent of you looking for a penalty Corner in a yellow card, 5 percent for a penalty stroke, and 1 MVP for a penalty corner, and 4 votes for a free hit defense. Okay, and if you came to that conclusion because you didn't feel that there was any interference, and no breakdown of play whatsoever by the defender in between the 23, and that the actions of the attacker, he was completely in control and could have avoided the goalkeeper, then, you know, I'm I'm okay with that, because as has been pointed out, the, the angle isn't right, and that's the same angle the umpire is on, and so that angle wasn't right, right?
So, there we go. I concur. Yep, the push would have looked less significant from the happy place, potentially. but you also would have seen better what the attacker was going to try to do with the ball because the ball was on the other side of their bodies and you would have seen more that the defender wasn't actually playing the ball whatsoever so you would have been like well the ball's right there why can't the attacker get there oh because he's being he's being you know even just blocked From getting to the ball the way that you should, right?
Very, um, very possible. Yeah, I'm pretty tired of Dolly, to be totally honest with you, but there you go. Uh, you just missed when you said it's just a common foul. Probably because I think you're wrong, Anthony. But that's okay. That's not a common foul. If there is a foul by that defender there, they are intentionally breaking down the play.
100%. And what we have to be better at as umpires and also better understanding as coaches and players as to what should be attempted and what should not for the flow of hockey. And I'm totally fine, Anthony, if you tell your players, like. Just, just take them down, get in the way, do something, because giving up the penalty corner and the card is a better result than letting that attacker go one on one with their goalkeeper?
Hey, no problem. But that's still a high impact foul that is well within the awareness of what shouldn't happen in hockey because of the rules. And it's our job to reset the balance, so what has been taken away by a foul gets given back. And we have tools now where it's not just a team foul. We have tools of suspensions that we, we've shifted our thinking as to how we can benefit and we can reset that balance, the scales of justice, even them out, so that we produce, on the whole, a cleaner, faster, more skillful, better spectator, better spectacle game.
I hope that makes sense. Um… And I, I, oh, well, thank you. I hope you, I mean, maybe you're complimenting somebody else. I don't know. It could be. Okay, uh, thank you for that. We're gonna move on to our next topic in a second, but I do want to get to a couple things. Where's my runner show? I Aha. Okay. First up, uh, I'd like to draw your attention to this.
I just saw this on Instagram this morning. Um, this may be something that you would like to support and I'm calling this a GoFundThem because Ayanna McClain has started a GoFundMe, but for another person who is in what appears to be quite a difficult situation. And it can be difficult when you look at something like this.
Because the wording is vague, and it's probably risky enough to define that this person is within a hockey community. But understanding that, knowing how we as a hockey family, TAF, and an umpiring community come together and support each other. It's important to draw on those bonds and the values that we share to help encourage and promote action to help.
So, I would invite you to, first of all, go follow Ayana's Instagram if you don't already because she puts up amazing videos of her cooking. And I have no interest in food, I'm not a foodie, and I certainly don't cook. But I still watch her videos. Because they're really good. And she's very good at them.
And she talks about umpiring sometimes. Not all the time. She's often just talking about food. Uh, so, go support her Instagram page, but then there is a link that is in both the description and will be in her bio that can take you to the GoFundThem page if you decide that this is something that you would like to get involved in.
And I would, uh, I would encourage you to do so. This is a really tough time of year for a lot of people to go through personal crisis. And when you can make a difference and you can spare that, uh, I think it's a really good thing to do. Um, let me just go to your comments first before, cause I want a palette cleanse before I go into my rant.
Let's see. No. I'm sorry, but, I'm sorry. There is absolute intent. Absolute, absolute, absolute intent. And I would love to talk to you more about this because I want you to understand this. You need to understand this to be a top flight coach. Okay? Uh, death perception on positioning is different, says Daniel.
Been behind goalkeepers pushing attackers and not been able to tell. Yes. So, I'm not, I'm not saying that in that last clip that we would want to see a, don't get in the vertical line, don't get in the train tracks, and that's one of the mistakes that we often make with. Uh, mission critical positioning, trying the interior, we think we're inside, but we're actually not inside.
We're just in line with everything, and I, I see this a lot with the international umpires now, who are trying to shift, but they're not, they don't feel confident enough with the speed of the game to take the more severe or the more radical step to get inside. Um, there you go. Link to the party. Good to see you.
And yeah, if you don't mind, there's this. There's this thing you can do. And it's very nice to do. I saw a couple people subscribing during the warm up and I'm like, Oh, there's a little widget. If any, okay. Even if you unsubscribe right away, I'll be okay with that. But if you don't already subscribe and you're thinking, you know what?
I could handle a little more Keely in my life. I like this community, this FHE3T thing. It's pretty cool. Subscribe, because I want to see the widget go off. It would make me really happy. Give it a try. Time for a second glass of wine. Okay, let me get back to this next topic. Because, hey, I have, oh wait. Here it is.
I think this is going to work.
I have a rant of the week. Courtesy of… America. And Talk Hockey Radio. Um… They brought it up on one of their recent episodes. I didn't even realize, Taff, that you had gotten like four episodes out that I hadn't listened to. I feel like such an asshole. But anyway, I had listened to episode, I think it was 18, and Simon Webb had a very nice rant about American exceptionalism and talking about that.
If you're American and you're listening to this right now, this is not personal. This is not a personal thing, but I picked up on that and I just, yeah, I know. As a Canadian, we have this problem too. Okay. We tend to follow the same rules, but sometimes we do things like use weird vocabulary to describe things.
So after my attention was brought to it, listening to this podcast. I have a good friend and I've asked, I asked her, I was like, I'm going to bring up your, your chat, like right on my show. And she's like, okay, she doesn't care. She's pretty amazing. Her name is Lindsay Gooney. She's in Santa Barbara. When I go kayaking down there, I stay with Lindsay a lot.
And, and this, this is what she messaged me out of the blue in our group chat. So Keely, in a number of NCAA streams, the announcers keep saying the call is for advancing. And I'm like, 30 years of playing, I've never heard anybody say that, what is it? And I'm like…
And you can see I have to bleep things out sometimes. I'm like, what? Like, what is this? It's not just you. And then, of course, I thought y'all would laugh at this. Because she's like, I, I feel you can use something to be relevant. Hey, hey, with the big dog stay on the porch, blow the whistle. There it is! Ian!
Did you unsubscribe and then subscribe? Because if you weren't subscribed before, friend, I have words. I have words.
But thank you. Look at that. That's not bad. Hey, and, and you heard the too short? Okay. Um, so I'm like, yeah, no shortage of rants, but, but cheers, Linz, appreciate that. And then she, and she, she's like, I really need to express just exactly how little I understand this. Linzy is an American field hockey player, goalkeeper, obviously.
All my friends are goalkeepers. I don't know why. And she's… She's like, one of my ice hockey friends was watching this with myself and another field hockey goalkeeper. And he kept saying, what is this called? And we kept saying, we don't know. And I just, I have no clue, bruh, was the, was the reply. So we did a little research to find out what might be happening.
Lynn's found the National Federation of High Schools. Something, N FHS and they have this document of official field hockey signals, and it's there. It's,
it's, it's, it's, I need the sound effect. I,
I don't understand what's happening here. Has she used her knee to move a player out of the way? Uh, is she doing high knee kicks? Is she, like, what is this indication of a player action? Supposed to be. I have no idea because if this is supposed to be a representation of playing the ball with your body, which may advance the ball or may not advance the ball It may actually stop the ball, it may put the ball off the field, it may put it in an entirely different direction.
What in the Jiminy Christmas? Maybe? Maybe? Encroaching it in the five?
No, no, I've had enough goalkeepers in my life, honestly. Oh, try French Canadian. I wouldn't want that. Yeah, there you go. Thank you, Samantha. If you're American, I appreciate your support. So, I don't just point this out because, like, wow, it's fun to pick on people. But the reason I point it out is that there is honest confusion.
When you make up your own terms to describe things… You might think you're being cute, you might think you're calling to your tribe, and there's, there's times where that's fun. I call you guys the FHU 13. We're 13. And that's a slang, that's a saying, that's a thing that, it's a special, special words that unite us and make us feel like we're part of a community, and it works, and it's great, and it's happy, and it's a good thing.
But when we're talking about the actual rules of the game and official signals, we need to stay standard. Because there's enough confusion about the rules without us making it worse. If somebody from Chile wants to find out they're gonna go play high school in America and then they're like, Okay, advancing.
They put that in Google Translate. Do you think they're gonna understand what the hell this is? Hockey's a global game. It's a beautiful global game and we need to do the right things to support it, to help it grow. And our tribe can be global. Let's be part of it together. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
That was really good. I actually kind of made that into a little speech part. That was cool. Um, I mean, maybe? But she doesn't point at her foot. She touches her knee. Touches her knee.
You might, you might need to send me a DM about that acronym, because I'm not thinking of it right now. Okay. Let's go. How am I doing on time?
This one won't take long, right? This'll take a long time. Action. What advancing is, I don't know! Really good teeping. That was a game changing moment there. Top teeping. Goal of the team! Oh, Fridge! Oh, this is all coming together now. Good to see you, and yes, it is challenging. We've been speaking about him all game and he's bloody gone and done it, hasn't he?
Apologies if But Alex Sheldon has just pulled off an absolute world lead. That is remarkable. It's not one, not two, not three, but four. Crisp reverse into the bottom right. Okay, so this came to me courtesy of, um, Well, somebody tagged me in on Twitter. This is from… Ian King's… Twitter stash, and you can find the link to the description.
I'm trying to be much more vigilant, diligent, now about sharing the links where I find these things so that you can go see them for the, for yourselves. And you can see that I haven't changed the video in any way. And also I want to give people credit who are doing good work and putting out material in the right way.
And occasionally I have to call people out who put out material the wrong way. Icons looking at you. And, you're gonna look this up, please. Yeah, you might, you might have to ask ChatGPT to go back in the historical annals. Because it's really good at, I think ChatGPT only canvasses America. I'm discovering.
We'll get onto that later. Um, there we go. Advancing the ball by any means other than the stick. Using any part of the body to propel, deflect, or stop the ball to a team's advantage.
Okay, I'm gonna have to Elsa this, so that we can get to this. We are now into the replay section of this play. So, in case I was talking over it, I'm pretty sure I was talking over it, sorry, Um, when we watch the full screen and the full screen replay, like, the commentators, who are clearly, um, from, The, the team that is hosting this said event and who clearly scored the goal in the other end are, um, very excited about the amazing goalkeeping and the amazing play that is made here.
I would love to hear… Your thoughts as to what you see.
I'm just trying to get my video pencil all set up here.
So that when I pull up the replay, we'll be there. So please, throw in your comments. What a high performance clip. What do you mean by that? I'd love to hear it. What do you mean by that being a high performance clip? Okay? So, I want you to put aside the dispossession of the ball at the centre line. Because, I don't, I'm really not sure necessarily what to make of that, the umpire who's here on the pitch has decided that it was, it was clean, he's playing advantage, he's got his arm out.
I don't know what foul that the former ball carrier, um, the now defender, um, would have made in this situation right here, as he gets dispossessed maybe. And obstruction and that sort of thing. I don't know, but I, I don't really want to get into that because I think it's important to get to the more interesting part of this.
Stage two, uh, basically. And what we're doing with the goalkeeper here. It, it frequently comes up in discussions, written discussions on particular social media forums. Um, a goalkeeper wanders outside the 23 meter area, there's a penalty corner going on down on the other end, the goalkeeper's taking their helmet off, and they're in between their circle and the 23 meter line, and, you know, all these sort of things where the goalkeeper is not involved in the play, and isn't conforming strictly to the rules of hockey.
And what I want us to be able to do is to come to a consensus here as to whether we think this is one of those, ah, it's fine, not taking part in the play,
or no advantage gained, or that this is something we need to penalize and how do we do that. So… Let's see what you are starting to chime in with, Frank. Uh, interesting one is the ball is inside the 23, however part of his body is outside the 23. I think that is accurate. I think that's an accurate assessment of what's going on.
It's because it's behind. Yeah, there we go. Okay, so let's just have a closer look at the play. I mean, there's a yellow card that goes right off the right after the hop. Okay, so here we are.
As we get to it. Okay. Grainy AF. Not gonna lie. And when I first watched this on my phone, I was like, bleh. No idea. And it's okay to see something on the internet, see it on your phone, see it not blown up, not have the time to examine it and say, I don't know. I think a lot of us are tempted, or we believe that we have to somehow proclaim something on social media without actually having the best information we can possibly get.
And I might follow up on that in a second. But. Even with the grainy, okay, right now I believe that the ball is about, it's one of those two little dots,
and at this point the ball is being contacted. Thank you for the like, I just saw it. Oh, somebody gave me a thumbs down, isn't that sad? And at this, here's the ball here, so the goalkeeper has cleared that ball, but I think at this point there's not a lot of question. That the goalkeeper is outside the 23.
Now we have to apply the rule, which is 10. 1.
Let's go find 10. 1. There it is. A goalkeeper may, must not take part in the match outside the 23 meter area that they are defending, except when taking a penalty stroke, okay? Must not take part in the match. So that is kind of unusual wording in terms of the way that we usually apply most of the other fouls.
In, in our sport. Does this qualify as taking part in the match? And, some of the, um, arguments that I saw on Twitter were to the effect of, well, the ball's already been cleared away so it's okay. But, the reason that we, the purpose behind the rule of 10. 1 is this goalkeeper is, no offense goalkeepers, a large scary object.
They are wearing a lot of equipment that protects them from the ball and also from other people. Equipment that these people do not have. So, when we get into the situation where they could come into contact with each other, and because when this goalkeeper is not inside their circle, they can't use their body to play the ball.
They are not expected to go to ground. They are not expected to use their body to block the ball.
They can only use their stick to play the ball. So, the size of them, the helmet. All the padding, their physicality presents an obstacle from which they could gain an advantage. And, as you're seeing this, I'm watching this attacker here, the second attacker. The first attacker is like, yeah, I'm on this line, I'm gonna see if I can tip it by the goalkeeper and go score that way.
Great. Good for that player. But this attacker here is starting to, like, put on the brakes. Oh my god, goalkeeper. I don't want to go through this guy. Because if I flatten him, I'm probably going to take a 10 minute yellow card.
Or, I'm going to die. Which is a good assumption. He's stopping his momentum because he doesn't want to get into this physical collision with a player who is playing in an area that they are not permitted to play. He's outside the 23. So, let's hear from you. Where you would go with this. And then we'll go to the poll in a second.
Yeah, there it is. Exactly. So, the distinction, Stijn, you're very correct in pointing it out, that it's not about must not, it's not about them playing the ball or not playing the ball. It's about taking part in the match. Because the very act of taking part in the match changes the way that other players are going to play, because of safety concerns.
Uh, for Phil, free hit attack outside the 23 for the sliding takedown. Um, I don't think there's really a slide. Uh, you think the ball was played inside the 23 so that part was okay. Plus, yellow card for the goalkeeper.
Okay, so, so Phil, in light of what we just, you know, what Stane just pointed out, and I absolutely agree with, that it's not the act of playing the ball, it's the act of taking part in the match, outside the 23 that is the issue. Because, and, and did that, that in and of itself require, It requires that it happens outside the 23.
That is what we're judging it on, so we don't have to look at the not playing the ball. JP, Damery or Damery? Please correct me. Is it the long A or the short A? But welcome. If you haven't subscribed, could you just subscribe for me? Just for fun. I want to see the widget fired. Uh, you agree with Ben Burton, it's completely reckless.
Where did Ben say it was really reckless? Oh, here it is. Uh, the goalkeeper makes contact with the ball in the 23 but can't quite see. Yeah, I think he does. But satisfied there's a reckless sliding challenge outside the 23 meter. Um, warranting at least a free hit attack in a 5 minute and could go to 10.
And JPE agrees with that. Uh, Jonathan. Um, forget your one, uh, what, your vote? You can change your vote on the poll, by the way. You're able to do that. Uh, just because it doesn't interfere with the game, and it is there that the team plays around them. So, um, I think this is where we have to look at that language in 10.
1. And it's not necessarily that the playing of the ball… That is the part that interferes with the game, but it's the action of that goalkeeper being part of the match and influencing what happens, and influences it very severely by colliding with another player who has to change what they're going to do because of where if that goalkeeper stays inside the 23, that, that attacker has more room to do what they want to do.
Right? Um, but if the foul is taking part in the match outside the 23, it can't be a penalty corner, can it, Sebastian? Because it's not a foul inside the 23. So, um, is H the Dutch word, colour, initial? You would go with a yellow card and a free hit attack, Frank. Simon, you think the goalkeeper breaks down the play inside the 23, clear to the stick, but shouldn't slide there.
So penalty corner, because inside the 23.
Yeah, I think for the same reasons that I was, I was walking. Um, fill through that logic. I don't think the play is broken down inside the 23. The foul is taking part in the match outside the 23. Does that make sense? So I think what the best result here is a free hit attack and a 10 minute yellow card. At this stage of the game, high impact.
We have the I in RDI wrapped up. Like, it is high impact. It's also dangerous. The foul itself is dangerous. The reason for the foul is danger, but also you can see there is a collision that wipes out that attacker. You've got both those things, and the goalkeeper knows what they're doing. This is not like, I had no idea.
This isn't just recklessness to the result. Um, let's see. Great. Uh, in Taff, you'll go with a five minute yellow card and goalkeeper. Uh, free hits. Outside the 23. And good learning. Yeah. Oh, no, you're very welcome. And, you know, luckily goalkeepers make really big plays. So they tend to feature in a lot of clips.
So I'm glad that was helpful. And that sort of thing. Hello! You're the goalkeeper requested in this clip! Freddie, I'm so glad you're here. And know that just because fouls could be called and cards could be given doesn't mean that we're mad. You're playing the game. You're doing what you have to do. So let's see.
You're intrigued as to what you think of the taggle that dispossesses your last defender. I'm really not sure, I don't feel like I've got good vision on it, to be honest. I, I, I'm not a fan of how much contact there is. I also can't tell where the ball is when the dispossession happens, so I don't know if there's a shield going on there.
So, this is me doing the thing where we all have to sometimes say, I don't know. I don't know. I think the bigger learning for all of us is, is the, is, is what you did. And, I mean, F it. At this point in the game. I think you did what you had to do in order to break down the play. And I'd be like, yeah, I'll take a, I'll take a yellow card to big dog.
Stay on the porch. Blow the whistle. Oh, Rachel, you're already subscribed, but thank you. So I, you know, I, I think you're doing what you, you felt like you. You needed to do so That's that's what that's what sport is. It's fine. And just to clarify you make contact with the ball. Yep. It's tough to see Yeah. Oh, yeah, this resolution is bloody awful and I'm blowing it up and zooming it and it's I mean We're pretty much looking at about 40 pixels 40 by 20 pixels like it's so bad.
But there you go. Uh, Dave agrees Oh, you changed, um, PLC to, to FHumpires, okay, I don't know what they're, free hit attack, okay, there you go. Uh, you think a green card and yellow card in Dutch is rather unhelpfully, green card for both! Groen en get, en ket it, get it, I'm gonna stop trying to say Dutch words, cause I like, I need some confidence today, so I'm trying to…
These Dutch words are not going to help me out with that. All right, let's see what you have to add. The tackle at the front as a pull option, just because I knew people would ask about it. But I'm not, like I said, I don't think we have great date on it. I didn't want it to make it the focus of this. So nobody's looking for a play on.
And just to bring it back.
So this, there's this method of positioning that helps us make these decisions. It's called Mission Critical Position. And I invite everybody to give it a try if you haven't heard of it.
Because, look, there were comments on Twitter about how, um, On the, on the subsequent goal, the goal that is scored here, how great is it that this umpire is in great position for it? And you know why that umpire is in great position for it? Because he didn't try to chase the play down to his colleague's end so that there could be four people, four eyes, two people making that decision.
He saw how spread out this was, he's like, yeah, I don't have to go there. But, at the moment, okay, we have…
Technically he's an attacker at this point, so we have it, uh, but the central defending, central defender attacker, he's the center D, he's the last player back, and he's about to get smushed, he's got two players on him, look at all this space. Do you as an umpire need to be here?
And this is what happens, okay? Too high. No drag, but too high. This umpire could have been at the point of the first tackle here. It's hard, the angle's really bad. But that umpire could have been there. And then could have judged where they want to go. Do they want to go all the way back to this point? Do they want to go back even further?
They'd gauge that according to what the players would be doing after that. That is a weird line. Okay. But here? Blocked. Okay. Can't see.
Sorry, I forgot. I have to keep… Making these points, how important this is for us to get up with. Okay, um, so yeah, nobody's thinking a play on here. That there's a free hit attack and a yellow card to the goalkeeper. Uh, sorry, Freddy, you're dope. And I'm, I mean I'm excited that You got a result that you, I, I assume that you got the result you wanted out of there.
And it's exciting hockey. So this isn't personal. This isn't personal though. Um, and then, let's see, two people wanted a penalty corner along with that, and one person wanted a free hit attack. And that might have been, that might have been the option that I left in there for the free hit attack for the, I don't remember now.
Does it matter? Does it matter? How's the, how's the sound level of the, um, ambient music by the way? Can you hear it? I don't think you can hear it. I'm grooving and you guys, oh.
Okay, mm. Just wanted to remind you really quickly, I've shown MCP enough so I don't have to do it in this segment, but I did want to remind you there's this thing coming up. It's called Black Friday. And I will be offering with this code, so write it down now, cause you'll never see it again! No, I'll show it to you next week, good.
I might send an email, but I know how bad it I get so many Black Friday emails and stuff. It'll be in the server, I'll I'll try to not be obnoxious about it. 30 percent off select merch that will not include the duffel bag. I'm sorry if you were thinking of, like, the duffel bag's really expensive. The duffel bag's really expensive.
And I'm losing money on it, so just so you know. And 30 percent off the green FHU3T membership, and that is the membership that gives you access to our watch parties, and the clip library, and an exclusive area of the server where I give you, you know, A pretty unusual and perhaps uncomfortable amount of attention, I'm just saying.
You're It's okay. I'm rolling with the punches, Sebastian. I know what it's like. I know what it's like, okay? And if you order anything, you're gonna receive some of these fantastic fobs. And we've had a couple discussions on the server already about how Mike McDowell has modified his fob. He actually trimmed the the round sides off.
You can do that. These are soft acrylic Kind of bendy, flexible, uh, things, really nice and light, and, but just kind of soft, and he just trimmed off the sides so it's more, a bit more rectangular, and he's put that on the end of his whistle, which is like, oh my god, that's so smart. Why didn't I think people would do that?
I just thought that they would put it on their keychains, and maybe as a zipper pull. Zipper pull? Pull? Pull. On your, on your umpiring bag. Or your, you know, your Louis Vuitton. Just slap that on your Louis Vuitton, that would look good. Oh! Okay, it's mostly fine. Okay. Oh, cause it's coming through the, okay, good.
Anyway, this is free by the way, because this is you helping me spread the word and helping us as a community spread the word about FHumpires. This goes to a, this QR code. That QR code will take you to the link, uh, to the fob. The QR code on the fob will take you to the link tree. And that means I get to change it whenever I want to direct people to different things.
So anyway, there you go.
I just want to celebrate myself.
Thank you. Okay, let's get to our third topic. It's going to take all the time. Let's stick together. One of my favorite. Hockey podcasts, along with whoops, um, along with the hockey family. I'm going to have to listen to some back episodes of the reverse stick because I'm starting to miss Matt and John as much as they pissed me off on a regular basis by not knowing the rules.
So sad. Anyway, luckily I have other people to piss me off about not knowing the rules.
Um, the most recent episode of Let's Stick Together, the dis the, uh, episode link. If you use Overcast, and I don't care if you don't, you should use Overcast, is in the description, and they had a very interesting… Um, rules proposal, and I guess this is coming from, what did he say? James Gall and Nick, um, is it Nurse?
No, I can't remember the two players names. I know James Gall was one of them. And, you know, Brennan Creed was very quick to give them credit for this. To add this to our game, to add this modification that when the period of time is to expire, that we extend it the way that we do a penalty corner. So basically it's applying penalty corner type completion rules to regular play.
And I thought it was worth having a, oops, Nick Park. Thank you, says Ben. Thank you for that. And yes, look, you don't know how many times I yell out in frustration. Don't say that! I'm trying to do work here. You think? Um, and there, the rationale for this. Was to, to not give that advantage. So in the last, you know, 20, 30 seconds of a game, uh, 15, whatever, that a team could just boot the ball as far down the field as they possibly could to kill the clock, essentially.
We, we in Canada would call that icing the puck. Okay. So you can't ice the puck just to kill off time. And Ben, would you just look something up for once? Google it, and it's called Overtime in Rugby. Right. That makes sense. So just so that you understand how seriously I took this idea. Whoops. That's not necessarily wanted what I wanted to show you.
And I didn't want to show you that either, but I wanted to show you this screen because I decided that I needed to do some research. As you may be aware, I know fuck all about rugby and I figured this was worthwhile for me to learn. So I went to to went into chat GPT and asked it to explain this to me.
I had a tone of voice, but don't worry about that. And here we are. Me getting an explanation as to how this works. But at first, I don't think it really gave me what I wanted because it started talking about advantage. And I'm like, well, we have advantage. And I asked ChatGPT, well, is play actually stopped exactly when a period expires or does the team in possession gain some kind of benefit from having extra time and…
This might be correct, y'all are gonna have to tell me when you know it would be, that the play is typically allowed to continue if team has possession, and could potentially gain benefit from that extra time, and it stops when the ball goes out of play, or a foul, or infringement occurs. Whoops, sorry about that.
And I, I was like, okay, I understand that, but I wanted to contrast that to how, between how rugby and hockey work. My limited, very, very nascent understanding of rugby is that plays, passages of play in between balls going out of bounds or fouls occurring can be quite extensive, can go on for long periods of time.
Whereas in hockey. You can have periods of time where there aren't very many decisions, but that tends to be not when players are attempting to do something with the ball. Weak contact points occur far more frequently in hockey, where decisions need to be made and fouls can be called when the pressure of attack comes.
So yes, teams can move the ball around the back. Really, you know, slowly, and that sort of thing. And, they can do that for long periods of time, but… That doesn't necessarily, or frequently, get them into that sort of attacking area where they're gonna possibly gain something. So, uh, I thought this was interesting.
It explained chat gt to tpt. Chad. Chad explained to me. I like to call him Chad. He's agreed with me that that's a good name for him. Um, that the periods of play in rugby vary very wildly, and it depends on skill level, and the referee's style, which, that sounds like super variable. And the tactic considerations.
Does a team like to be attacking? Do they like to just keep possession of the ball and move things around and maybe exhaust their opposition? I don't know how it works. So it can range from a few seconds to several minutes. Wow. And then I asked it whether rugby stops time for any other reason, like any other fouls, the way that we should be at all levels stopping time for some period, for some number of seconds, in between calling a penalty corner.
Calling penalty corner, and starting the penalty corner, or for injuries, or for awarding cards. Okay, time stops, so I needed to do that. Uh, I love the time equals time. So, when I found out that rugby otherwise does not stop time, except for maybe when time is being wasted, the referee has the discretion to be able to just stop his watch and say, hey.
Cut out this nonsense. Let's go. Um, if there is a TMO, television match official. TMO. Cool. I like it. Or if there is an injury assessment. Especially in regards to head injuries. So, um, I really, I learned a lot. Thank you, Chad, for this discussion. It really helped me in… Um, and figuring some of these things out.
So what I'm thinking, okay, so I was drying my hair about half an hour before the show. Blow dryer, Dyson, going out with the diffuser and I thought to myself, Oh, you know what I should do is actually look at the last 30 seconds of a period of play with Top Flight International teams. And look at a bunch of them and see, and pretend that 30 seconds or, or a whole bunch of that has already elapsed, or is close to elapsing.
And then apply an overtime type rule. How long would play continue and how constructive would that be? I don't think it's… I don't think we'd get anything really definitive from that, but it would give me more of a feel of how that would look. Because we would have to figure out… How does that… Because a ball going out of bounds…
I mean, if I were a defender… And… My opposition is trying to… Get into my circle in order to tie up the game, or win the game. I would try to hit the ball out of, over the sideline, or any other boundary, except for, um, over my own end line, as soon as I possibly could. So, I don't think that works. Right?
Because that's not really fair. Although, in the discussion, Joep did point out, alarmingly, I super agreed with Joep on many things in this episode, that it would encourage teams to not cling to the sidelines and force them into the middle because that's where it's less likely that they're going to be able to, the opposing team's going to be able to put the ball up the sideline.
I thought that was really interesting. So, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Come into the server and let's have a chat about it. Somebody can start the ask FHU. That would be pretty awesome. And then I can see whether that helps, um Let me know what you know of rugby and how you think this might work in this.
Jonathan, you get it. And yes, it's like rugby. A lot of the attackers keep playing until they lose the ball. Stijn, you don't like it. Players know they're in the last two minutes so they can time play. In addition, you wouldn't like to play the final of, uh, eight games on a pitch on a Sunday. I mean, we do, there are logistic issues about time bookings and things like that.
Absolutely, that, that can be a consideration. Then it continues when the ball's out of play unless they need to stop time for another reason. It's not stopped for the ball being in touch. As a singular. I don't even know what that sentence means.
The other thing that came out of this episode that I'll mention quickly and I DM'd Brendan to yell at him because I had to is that this is where I saw some bullshit on Facebook somebody saying, oh well Brendan said it in the last episode of the podcast so it must be the rule that if a drag flick on a penalty corner Hits a player within five meters and it hits them on the knee, that that is going to be another penalty corner.
That's not right. It's below the knee. The rule specifically says below the knee. Below the knee. It's in the rule. Below the knee. I can't.
Okay. So somebody's going to have to give me a link. Apparently now I have to read the rules of rugby and I'm not sure how I do it. Uh, in rugby though, as well, the winning team has the ball at 80 minutes. They can kick it out to end time. Yeah, I, I, Chad, Chad explained that to me as well. Um, okay, yeah, go on.
Okay, cool. Um, oh my God, it's been a Keely hour. Let's get through this really fast. Canva pin. Campone versus Pinoke, five meters. I wanted to touch that. It came up in the server, and we discussed a 5 meter infringement of the basketball free play. And it was really tough to come to a consensus on what we thought the best decision was about whether the player broke down, play or not.
And I wanted to bring this out specifically because I think we can see clearly Another side to this. So go ahead and vote. Go ahead and vote. But, um, Players already think this is a rule, says Luke. Yeah, uh, clearly. It's amazing, we're putting all these things together, but Yeah, it would need a lot of work and a lot of thought and testing and all that kind of stuff.
Um, as it does, what's eerie to me? Maybe not eerie. This is kind of the way that hockey works, I think, is that it's the same defender that we spoke about last week. Who's involved in this one. And in my view, no, factually, not even my view that the, the, the defender behaves. So we're gonna say it differently in this play.
Gizza the free hit for infringing on the five meter arrow of reception, or the ball is coming into two players, therefore there's no clear initial receiver. And then he's thinking, I am caught, so instead of moving in a direction that could cause me to break down this free hit, I am gonna make myself small, I'm gonna put my stick up in the air, I'm not gonna attempt to play the ball.
And he takes the ball off the court. His ankle. I'd like to hear what you think about this. So I know I'm gonna have to wait.
You can't see players wanting this, yeah. 40 matches, yeah. Delays would stack up. Poll has ended! Oh my god, sorry. Laws of rugby, thank you. And referees are always referred to as sirs or madame by the players. I, I don't know, I could get used to that. If the rules said that they're supposed to tell me or the culture is to call me madame, I'd probably go okay.
be a little different though.
So, um, I don't know if the rugby poll ended or this poll ended. I was getting the dates wrong, as I was setting this up, I know that. But let's see. Um, it looks painful, yeah. It does look painful.
So what do we think? The play ultimately was reset with a free hit. And that was it.
So if you're still thinking about this, and you haven't been able to make a decision, that brings me to an interesting point, because
these things It's a good reminder to me, and a good reminder to all of us, that these little moments don't happen in isolation. A match does not occur over 10 seconds. There's an entire match involved. These are the highlights, even, that I have edited. So we have this incident that happens in, uh, the last minute of quarter three.
But now we're gonna go back and look at a few incidents that happened, that are just in the highlight package, early in this game. Last 30 seconds of quarter two, and that defender, and that attacker, are involved in something. Okay. They're pissed at each other. These are the same two players. If you are umpiring a game like this, and you see physical confrontations, and you haven't done anything to manage it, you will see things continue.
They will take matters into their own hands. And this is why I'm so insistent that we have to step in. This is right at the end of the game. And the umpire ends up having to give a yell card in the last 1 minute and 30 seconds to Hendrix because of how he didn't like that stick shield call going into a circle.
So now we have some more context. We have these two players involved in a confrontation earlier in the match that Maybe you wouldn't necessarily do anything about, but as umpires, we have to be aware of these dynamics, and we have to be tracking. Who's mad at who? What do I have to do to keep players safe?
Is there a risk of retaliation coming up somewhere? Is somebody taking something the wrong way? Did I miss something in the communication between those players?
Because to me, this is not a free hit against the defender in blue.
They were caught, they did what they could, and… The player in possession sent the ball directly at them, intentionally.
And I would want to see this. A free hit the other way for danger, and a card. That's how I feel.
Yep, definitely red mist. And it's a red card there. Yeah, we don't like this. Okay? Yeah, we're on, we're on to pole floor now, hopefully I… I didn't do that totally wrong. Yes, the commentator saw it. Thank you for translating the Dutch for me. It's pretty obvious. I didn't hear the commentator say that because I don't understand Dutch.
But I could see, just from the highlights, that they had a score to set.
And the question starts getting into whether that gets to red card territory, whether that's violence or not. And… I,
there is an argument there. I'm trying to think of the best way to say it. I don't feel comfortable with that being a red card, but I sure feel comfortable with a 10 for yellow. Because it's reckless ad. to that result. Shaun, yellow card to the defender for sure, green card to blue pair for not retreating at all.
I, honestly, this is one of those, and this is why I wanted to contrast that with the play that we looked at last week, is that this is one where the defender, yeah, they're, they don't try to retreat, but sometimes when they try to retreat. They can be interpreted as moving into a lane, so I bet, I have no doubt, I have many doubts.
But what if Peter's here, looks at his game tape from last week, And says, man, that time that I tried to step to the left to get out of the way, I actually stepped into the ball and I was interpreted as breaking down play. I don't agree with that, obviously, but I can't do that again. So the next time that happens, I'm just going to stand stock still, make myself as small as possible because I believe the interpretation is I'm not expected to disappear.
And I think that's fair. That is the way that I would interpret this play. We can't expect them to vanish. And that attacker, Hendrix, has all kinds of options. All he has to do is drag the ball. Slightly in one direction. He's got space galore. He's got passing lanes galore. And doesn't use them.
Yes, White should have waited. No, he doesn't have to wait, but he can't try to play through the through. He's got all kinds of options. I hope that sounds fair. Uh, stickballs are with the ball, so although it didn't make contact, the ball would have Yeah. High danger. Yeah. Okay, so, let's see. I don't know if I screwed up the poll or not, but let's, I'll find out in a moment.
Oh, no. Oh, it's there! Okay, so everybody, only two votes, but you're on board with that. That is fair. And I know we're well over time, but let's just look at this quickly, just because I need a palate cleanser. It's been a tough… It's been a tough show, and I want to show some positivity. Strong positivity.
This was another clip that came to my attention. This is from the Beeston Twitter feed. Go follow them. Beeston has been one of the leaders in social media furnishings of their, uh, matches. And driving, I think, the way that top teams, top clubs are presenting their hockey in that country. So, go support them.
And this is the replay and I froze it at the moment of the… Receiving area and the goalkeeper making contact because I wanted to show just how incredibly fine of a margin but on the correct side of that margin that the attacker is in this moment. At the moment the ball is coming down and the contact is made I do believe the attacker is five meters away.
From that landing area and because it's, it's because he's in motion This is what I want to teach teams how to do I want to teach them how to be on the right side of the margin, but to use their momentum To speed up their ability to get in behind and either intercept the ball or in behind collect Um, and I'm gonna be showing you how to create misses like this.
In order to produce some, some good results, uh, in their, uh, attack or recovery of the ball. And this is just done perfectly. Unfortunately, I don't know where the umpire is, but they made the right decision.
Glad the behind keeper made the show.
And there you go. Okay. I, I bet nobody voted yet because there hasn't been a lot of time, but just in case, I'll just talk. And you're looking… Steven, you must be talking about the last one. Um…
Or are you talking about this one? Uh, I don't… I
mean… I, I… Okay, I don't understand… Alright, we can't go yet because I don't understand the comments there. But he's not within five meters, so what's the problem? And he's not breaking down play, this is their attack. So either this is a free hit for a five meter infringement, but it, I mean, you don't award cards for not breaking down the play.
You can't break down your own play. You break down the other team's play.
Um, and I'm not sure what Are you saying that you don't think that the goalkeeper is the initial receiver? See, this is when we start using other terms, even mine, and it doesn't help us apply the rule. The rule is, is there an initial receiver? And who is that initial receiver? I think the goalkeeper is the initial receiver here.
And they just mishandle it because the lights are shit. And I have all kinds of sympathy for this player.
Uh, the attacker's behind the keeper but not causing danger or impedance, um, is not, let's, let's use, let's, you know, just cause we're going off on a lot of directions, it's not infringing on the five meter area, let's just say that. Uh, the only question for you is whether the ball is still in before the attacker gets the last touch.
Yeah. Um, we're just going to assume that it was a, it was a good goal that way. Does that help? With… Did I, did I straighten that out, if you had any hesitations about what's happening here? I, I can't see any reason why the goalkeeper isn't an initial receiver here. You know, they're not in a perfect receiving position, but that's their choice.
They, they misjudged it, but they are the initial receiver. And if they had been able to make contact with their stick, as they plan to, or their walkers, or whatever the case might be, they would be entitled to five meters to Control the ball. That makes them the initial receiver. In… Circular logic.
Okay, so George, you just don't think that there's an initial receiver. That's fine, as long as we get to the right result. At the end of the day. But, when you watch it in real time, it can be quite deceptive, and you could think that the attacker is infringing on five meters here. And that's the point that I'm trying to get to.
You'd 100 percent give it a goal. Assuming you touched it. Yep. Okay. And there's no interference with the goalkeeper when he's attempting to make contact. Yep. Okay. And for Luke, yes, the goalkeeper is an initial receiver. Mishandled it. Yep. There you go. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Cool, cool. Well, that took longer because I need to put myself on a timer again.
I was on a really good stretch for a while where I was able to get… Through quite a bit of, um, material by timing each segment. So, you know what? I think it's, um, I'm going to take this self analysis on board and get back to doing that. And, and so I'm, yeah, I'll see if I can fix that because the first topic is taking me like 45 minutes a day.
But there you go. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. And for those of you who would like to. Continue to discussion about the, you know, rugby rules idea. It's not really a proposal yet, cause it, I mean, who knows? But, uh, if you'd like to talk more about that idea, please do come into the Discord server.
And, um, the Discord server you can find. Uh, the address that I've just put into the chat, FHumpires. com forward slash DS. I'd love to see you in there. Uh, we have a thriving and very engaged community and many, many channels. And the Ask FHU section is a great place to go in and get a nice, tidy, organized question.
For one sort of scenario or a general idea and and then we work our way to a consensus every time. That's very important to me and it's something I think is very valuable about our community so if you'd like to take part in that we'd love to see you there and thank you. I know it's really nice to have you back and I'm glad that you and Simon and Fraser are all getting back on your podcast as well Because the more that I listen to other people talking about hockey the more I learn and that's what we're here for Thanks William.
Good to see you. And you're very welcome. Have a fantastic hockey Weekend coming up and let me know how you do get on. We'll see you next week.
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