Live Q&A #WhatUpWednesday Ep. 95

📅 Oct. 26 18.00GMT
➡️ https://youtu.be/0XDk6KcRIfI

We'll find out: can a rebound bounces off the turf and be dangerous? What happens when knee pads are worn outside the 23m after a PC? And what's the best (ONLY) way to conduct a penalty stroke and why is this a Rant of the Week? Plus: a 3d tackle, a tackle inside the circle, and when a foot isn't a foul.

🚨 Mission-Critical Positioning course is live on Nov 15 so get in now at $5 off! https://fhumpires.com/mcp

Check out when the next #WhatUpWednesday will go live.

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Transcript

Keely: Happy what up Wednesday? It is my favorite day of the week. And hopeful. Yours too. And I actually should side subtitle this, what up Thursday morning as well, because Shayne's here and it looks like William Mewis is also perhaps a Thursday morning visitor. So thank you very much for getting up early on your Thursday mornings.

It's late. It's probably super early Thursday morning for psychiatry. So it's, we're all over the place here. Friends, we're all over. I'm really glad you're here today. We have a, we have a few more topics than I've been doing for the law school to while, because, you know, I like to keep it fresh, keep it interesting, little challenging, like let's get a, let's get more than just the three in.

So this is what we're covering today. We have danger on the rebound penalty corner equipment worn outside the 23 meter, a tackle in the circle. As always, there's always one of those, a foul on some three-dimensional skills. Uh, we're gonna talk about the penalty, historic procedure cuz we have to and when is a foot not a foul?

Yes. All of those things. All within achille hour. I'm glad you're here. Uh, lots of people, the comments and I like tradition. The tradition that people are starting to, uh, express, you know, what they're using, what they're consuming to accompany their experience here on what? A Wednesday. So Kev, I'm glad you're here.

And, uh, it's, and it's Rose. Oh gosh, Rachel, you didn't even tell me that in the, in the tailgate. That was Rose. That's, that's fantastic. I'm really pleased and, uh, a couple people who I haven't seen for a while. I just wanna call you out in particular, cuz I'm glad you're here, Mike Vi. Which is fantastic. And who else?

Oh, Rubbo, it's, it's good to see you again. Very good. But of course, my girl

Kat is back, so I hope that you all can shower her with some gifts in the server. Uh, she is back after getting herself situated in the Netherlands. She's in, uh, do I pronounce it properly? If I say Harlem, is it that it's too easy. It can't be that. Tell me how to pronounce it properly. Um, and yes, I'm really glad to, to have her back.

And Godders is here and Taco, and let's see.

Chief Badger, Steve Godwin in the house. Yes, he is the one. He is the one. Mark is here. Oh, Evison, we haven't seen you for a hot minute. I'm glad you're here. Thanks for joining in. And there you go. Um, you require decent wine, but that would leave require you to leave the house at times other than when you go to umpire.

Look, the struggle is real. I understand, but don't people deliver these days just saying it could happen. There you go. Oh, you're making dinner, no wine. Those are two separate activities for you. Probably smart, which is probably why I'm not a very good cook, but off you go. Okay. Before we get started, don't forget today's show and every show until probably forever, we're brought to you by the Mission Critical Positioning Workshop.

Keely, just slow down. You don't have to speak so quickly. This is my most popular and most sought after. Learning experience, and it is available as an A nurse course starting on November 15th. You guys, lots of people have been buying it. I'm really excited. I am so glad to get this out there because the more I see people doing their positioning well and watching them enjoy their matches so much more because they don't feel rushed, they feel composed and calm and they're nailing their big decisions, I tell you, I just couldn't make me any happier.

So go to fh FHumpires dot com slash CP and and go save your $5 and go get it. If you were a yellow member though, just slowly roll a big rig because I can't look, if I can figure out how to get the discounts like overlapped properly, I will do that. But not today. Satan. Not today. Just, just wait and then.

Sign up later. Gutters, you're not allowed to. You just get access to it. Okay? Anybody who's taken the live workshop, you just get access to the asynchronous course so you can go back and look at it. It's like a replay on steroids. So there you go. Um, thank you very much for popping that into the links and let's see, Matt is here.

Matt Promotion gained.

Matt, I am so happy for you. Congratulations. Oh. Gosh, I love good news. I really do. I really do. I had a, an, an inkling that I might try to Halloween ize this show, but as I was talking with my friend Dina, as you see in the comments, uh, I was talking to her earlier today and I just said, you know what? I've been kind of having a rough time with execution of things in the live stream, so perhaps I should just, you know, take a knee and, and, and just get the basics right before I start introducing like flying ghouls and witch cackles and things like that, cuz it's just not gonna be good.

So, on the theme of people doing amazing things, I want to send a big shout out to Dirk Fowler from South Africa. I can pop the confetti again and I can do that again. He is our latest joiner in. Sorry, in yellow. Pardon me. And I'm so glad to welcome him and I can't wait to get to know him the way that I've gotten to know everybody else in yellow and what you're doing in your umpiring and sending me videos so we can debrief and do all that fun stuff.

So I'm very glad you're here, Dirk, if you are wondering what I'm talking about. Okay. This is the test you guys.

Hi, new graphics. Who this? Yes, it worked. Um, this is how it works. You can support the FH FHumpires program and gain access to the clip library for $7 US a month for 27 For now. You get, uh, oh, is it 27 or is it Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, for now, but next year the price is actually gonna go up again. I'm sorry.

Inflation life. , all those things. So get in. Now. If you're thinking about it, I'm just saying what's that? Asmr? Uh, and then red associations can pool the resources of their association, gain access to the whole, uh, mentoring and workshop experience. So if you wanna know more about that, f u three t.com or fm par.com/f u three T I really should have thought a better, like, why are my letters so hard to say?

It's not, it's not good enough. There you go. And yes, Kat throwing out the big warm welcome. I'm so glad. Oh, Cindy's here. There she, there she is. You're new. You need a catchy name. Hey. We take you just as you are and we're still, it doesn't matter what you wanna call yourself, we're happy you're here and I'm very, very glad that you're there.

Thanks for all the shout outs and the comments to congratulate Matt. You guys are awesome. Look at how happy you're making me. There you go. And Cindy's glad. There you go. Jolt cola of evil. Hi. First time catching the live stream. There you go. And there was somebody else who was catching it for the first time, who I've seen for ages.

Who was that? Oh yeah, it was Nick, Eva. So there you go. I just, I'm excited that all my buttons are actually working, so I had to press them all. Okay. And then the last thing I wanted to say before we get into the content, a big thank you to Paul Daz. Uh, he is in England. Wait.

More confetti but quickly, um, bought me a couple roses just to say thank you for the YouTube con content. So that was really great. Thank you very much. I don't have a graphic for this anymore cuz I'm actually probably gonna be moving off. Buy me a coffee and just having PayPal. And are you ready for it?

FH umpires dot eth. Ask me about crypto. I know you're going. No Keely, no trust. Trust people. It's coming. So if you have a wallet, you know, toss, toss a little eth my way. Our way. Because this is going to be a Dow soon. Oh, I'm so excited you guys come into the server, come into fhm pars.com/ds discord and come talk to me about what.

all the dreams that I have for FH Empires, they're very big and they involve it being much bigger and more community and not me. It's not about, well, it is about me. No, it's not about me. It's about us as a community growing and being able to bring everybody together. So I'm very excited about those things.

You wanna know more, you're just gonna have to come into the server and find out, so there you go. Okay. Did I get everybody? There you go. And oh, and when you're Oxted. There you go. Hi, Nick. Everybody's saying hi to each other. It's very nice. There you go. Hi, gingerbread gamer. I haven't seen your name, so there you go.

I'm really glad that you're, you're shouting yourselves out here because I like knowing that you're here. Thank you very much. And if, if I like you and you like me, then try hitting this thing later. Okay. I gotta remember to show that graphic. I really do. Okay, let's get into the content. Thank you for your, your attention through all those announcements.

Let's go. First topic, danger on the rebound. This came in through the server from our server member, Chris Maloney, uh, who is an educator in the US and brought this clip from the NCAA to our collective attention. And it was the subject of a discussion elsewhere on the internet. But you know how we do, we do it right and we get to the consensus.

So I am going to, while y'all are taking in this play, I'm going to put the options in a pole and I'm going to do like this. And then there I did it. Right. Okay. There you are. There's the first poll of the day. Oh, that reminds me of the other poll I forgot to put. Okay, don't worry. I got it. So if you've had a chance to have a look at this a bit, it might be hard to see in the first instance, but the rebound off the goalkeeper save really good save by the way.

Uh, is palmed, I guess down into the turf, bounces up and it strikes the attacker on the knee, kind of above the knee. On the knee ish. Okay. And, uh, you can see from this replay that's Mary Driscoll there, uh, a friend of mine, and like you can see, she's got look at the shadows. Look how long the shadows are.

She's got her hand over eye. And from the angle where all of this happened, didn't see a thing. So it doesn't matter what was seen or what was called in the moment, but it raises a really interesting question for us, which is, can danger result from a ball that rebounds off the ground? And who is responsible for that danger?

So I'd love to hear your comments as we're getting some, some responses into the poll. Very interesting. The leading vote right now at 58% is free. Hit defense. So let's find out why. Let me go to all of this. Let's see. But I know you well. Okay. I'm gonna have to look at your avatar very carefully. That's what that weird face was.

Looking at your avatar. Alright, Ribhu, no danger for you. Keeper deflected it down. Hi, David. Oh, I am. Okay. I'm gonna, I am disappointed on the inside, but on the outside I'm gonna keep up a brave facade that you're not able to comment. I'm glad you're here though, David. It's always nice to see you. Finally, you get to see, uh, the clip.

Oh, it's impossible to make any decision when the video doesn't get posted in the discord in an accessible way. Yeah. See, video is kind of important, but there was a reason I didn't wanna post it. First of all, um, because I wanted to have the discussion fresh out here. There's, there's times where I can take a discussion from the ask f h u channel and bring it here and.

It's fresh, it's new, but I didn't wanna try to hash through all the arguments there and then repeat them for the show cuz then you'd all be saying, we all know these things. Okay, so you're not sure what else they could have done. The attacker is very close, says Ribhu for Kev. It's deflected down safely and it's a free hit for you.

Hi Corey. Hi Corey. Good to see you. There's a technique shooting called a squeeze hit, which literally has you, this is very interesting how this is not sizing properly for me. Dina, we gotta talk about this. Uh, squeeze hit literally has you hitting the ball into the turf and coming up at a sharp angle.

The last person who influences the ball is responsible. Good point, Chris. So where does that take you? How are we doing? 64% now on a free hit defense for Thomas Umpiring. Straight into the sun. Everybody's favorite, free hit for you, but said with little confidence. Okay. What is making you concerned, Scott?

Who is responsible, who set the ball in motion? There's absolutely that. So there are, uh, we on this show all of you, f h e three T people, you know, that if, for example, a drag flick is shot rebounds off the crossbar and then, you know, causes danger for someone else, the crossbar is a non sentient entity and is not responsible under the rules of play for being responsible.

It's whoever drives the ball at that crossbar, they are responsible for that. So it's the last person to, to play to, to direct that ball. And even though it certainly wasn't. An attacker's attention to hit the crossbar. I, I don't care how many TikTok videos have it happening, they actually don't want to hit the crossbar.

They want to score. So it's, it's not that you are, um, it, it's, it's that somebody needs to be responsible basically, even though you didn't intend for the dangerous result, it just sort of happened. So that's something to keep in mind for Scott. You're inclined to say the danger was caused by the goalkeeper playing the ball just as an unintended deflection up from a defender.

Is them co causing danger? Uh, a PC for Rachel, but you need to work through the rules. Danger. Okay. Okay. Let's see if we can do that here together. Mike, consider this. Has the goalkeeper played the ball in a manner that results in danger, considering also where the ball strikes the attacker's body you can't play on?

Absolutely. I didn't, I didn't put play on as an option. You know, for that, um, even though it was a play on situation until the video referral came in, just because the umpire here had no way to see what the heck was going on. Okay. So, um, Thomas, let's hear this concern is the keeper sta saving straight on the ground, but actually causes the ball to rise off the ground into the attacker, but seems harsh on the goalkeeper for me as they try to keep the ball.

Yeah, they do try. Absolutely. And every time somebody creates a deflection or directs the ball in a way that causes danger for somebody else, it, I'm sure that's not what they want to have happen. They wanna keep, they wanna act responsibly towards their opponents and keep it safe and definitely not give up fouls.

So it's not really about intent. The goalkeeper, playing it down can suggest it's not intentional danger, no penalty stroke. Absolutely not, but still dangerous. So a PC for Scott, um, penalty corner, but you don't know what the infraction, it's, it's that the, you know, if you're wording a PC here, it's because you feel this is dangerous.

So what was interesting for me here is that there, um, is a notion, or at least Chris was definitely of the, uh, belief in the server that this could not be called dangerous because it, it, it barely brushed her. It was, you know, not a sort of, you know, there's, there's gonna be no dimple on her knee from this one.

Uh, it didn't crack her open. She's not bleeding. But we have to make sure we don't confuse danger with severity. It's not the same thing. Danger means that the player is in a position where they are too busy trying to make sure that they're not getting hit with the ball such that they can't, they're disadvantaged.

Disadvantaged from playing the ball. That is what danger is. And then there's a whole spectrum of what that might look like. But playing the ball at a certain height, at a certain range, at a certain speed, it's not about whether they're gonna get hurt by it, but are they disadvantaged because it's not where we're supposed to be playing the game.

And if the ball's directed at you at that kind of height, then it is problematic. So let me show you another. This isn't the clip that's from last week here. Let me go to this and let's see where my, that clip is.

Number one, folks. Number one, I'm just looking for most, IM improved streamer. That's the only title I'm looking for today is most improved streamer. Okay. Is it in here? I didn't, why isn't it in here? I, oh, you guys. Okay. So I had another one to show you and it was GB and Malaysia. Am I on trucks? Maybe I put it somewhere else.

Let me double check. And I remembered it quite clearly because, uh, Brendan Creed got hit with the ball and the ball bounced off. The, the ball was shot, sort of directed down into the ground and deflected. Oh no, it was, it was not. Um, England was on the attack, so it couldn't have been Brendan, cuz he would've been up in the circle and he goes down in the ground and literally goes in between the, the kiwi defender's legs and brushes, the legs.

And they earned a penalty corner initially, but then the referral went for danger. And so even though it wasn't a particularly fast moving ball, it was close to them in a position where they were expected to be, and now let me, let me arrange this for you. It was a shot on net scenario and there the, this all happened quite close to the goal line, but the defender was close to the attacker playing.

defense not playing goalkeeper. And so that ball down into the ground brushed and the ball was called as a free hit for danger eventually after the replay. So, um,

what? Look, you guys know what I mean? You know what I mean? So let's just, oh, I've got my quick mute going now. Um, let's see what else is looking at what, what y'all are thinking here. Kev, you're watching closely on the full replay. Looks like the attack pushed the ball into a shooting position into the d with the back of the stick.

Uh, yeah. We're, I'm not even looking at that. I'm, I refuse. Okay. The attacker is too close to the keeper from a raised ball. No. So this is something that we do occasionally, which is misapply. The aerial pass rules to any situation where there's a raise ball. There is not an onus on this player to get away from an unintentionally deflected ball.

Okay? There is no initial receiver here cuz there is no receiver. This is not a pass, this is just a ball played in the air. So we don't apply five meter rules and initial things. How could an attacker possibly be expected to move away and allow for who to be the initial she, she is the initial receiver.

If anything, if you're gonna call that a pass and the goalkeeper has to back off five and that's all like complete,

so we're not applying it. Good news. Good news. We're not applying that whatsoever. , um, look at the body position, the attacker free hit defense. Okay. And what is that body position that you're saying? Thank you. Mm-hmm. Scott is also of the opinion that the raised ball rules only apply there. Uh, Jenny, if the attacker placed yourself so close to the goalkeeper, the ball is deflected off protective gear and def Flexx due to physics.

Is it really on the goalkeeper to not have caused the danger?

And I mean, that's, that's an interesting question and that's what, you know, Chris was pointing out, but I really don't see this as being some kind, like looking at it from all the angles. When you look at it from the side. She does look very close, but she is off to the side. And, you know, her initial role there was somewhat of a, she was gonna look for a tip, she backs away.

And now when you look at her, she's. You know, she's away from it. There is nothing unreasonable about what that attacker is doing. There are many directions in which the goalkeeper has an opportunity to play the ball that way, that way, that way, that way. Or at a different angle. If that goalkeeper directs it downwards and it hits the attacker weather on the bounce or straight on lower than the knee height.

Yeah. Free hit defense because at that height you're expected to be able to deal with balls that are played closely at you. Higher than that you're not. That is the somewhat arbitrary but makes sense line in the sand that we've called because of shinguards.

Okay. Chris, the attacker body position is stepping away from it. Has no idea. They haven't run through that and they've created the danger themselves. Still a PC on this one. Um, right. Okay. I see what you're saying. Free hit defense. Enough space we can keep an attacker is not ready for the rebound, but should be.

Um, the attacker seems to shy away from her teammate shot. She's sh uh, she's shying away from everything. There is some legitimate evasive action there.

Okay. You don't buy it. The attackers back and wave the balls struck and still back and win the balls deflected into her knee. You're feeling that this is a PC attackers within five meters of the goalkeeper. Think about how we play runners at PCs and proximity assessment for dangerous drag flicks. It's another good one.

Okay. The attacker is allowed to shy away as long as they don't obstruct, because you can't put your own team player in danger. The offense is only against opponents. Good point. And Chris thinks that's unreasonable. Okay. Are we ready for a two minute warning? Are we ready for the poll? Close and my conclusion on that one.

Let's do it. Two minute warning.

And the pole. And the pole. And the pole. Pole. And here we go. Oh, don't move. Okay. Stop commenting for a second so I can get the screenshot. Okay. Just got enough there. Just can't get enough. And this was the result of the poll. 62% going with a free hit for the defense and the penalty corner was 37%. This is for me, a penalty corner and.

the ball does not have to be injurious, does not have to be going so quickly that if it strikes, it draws blood or creates a bruise. We need legitimate evasive action or the inability for that player to be able to make a solid play on that ball at that, at that level. Are they expected to be able to play that at that height, at that distance, and she's not put herself in a position where she's causing her own danger?

This is not the same as a player who puts themselves on the goal line or close to it without the benefit of goalkeeping equipment or the privileges that goalkeepers have and trying to stop a shot. Okay? Going in to try to play a deflection. and then be there for a rebound is not putting themselves in a dangerous position.

And goalkeepers have, and especially in this scenario, the goalkeeper had lots of potential. Now, if that player had been, you know, right up in the goalkeeper's face and the goalkeeper stops the shot at the SHA height that she did, and there's like literally nowhere else that could have gone because trying to go straight down would've been ridiculous.

That's a different story. That is not the facts scenario we have in front of us. For me. This is, this is there.

Okay. Goddards isn't buying it, and that's okay. I understand. Uh, hopefully we've got this. Dealt with by the mods, any of the mods, if you want to grab on that, Chris, I'm sure your and a few people are there. Thank you very much. Um, let's see, Amanda, anywhere else in the pitch, this would be a free hit. So the player that was hit for the same, the principle applies, therefore pc.

That's good logic, Amanda. I like it and I agree and that's okay. But Godders, you know, like is there a fracture here? Is, is there something wrong in our relationship? Do we need to maybe go to counseling or something? I'm a little concerned it looked below the Ford's knee. Yeah, the video shows the knee, so it could go either way.

Well, the knee is the height, so if it's knee high or above, that's considered dangerous. When. We apply the drag flicking rules on penalty corners, for example. So, um, it doesn't quite go both ways. , that's the arbitrary line. And on review that was what the umpires, uh, who were there looking at the video, uh, review, that's what they would've been looking for was the actual height that she was struck at.

So there you go. Um, anywhere on this pitch isn't a goalkeeper making it save? No, you're absolutely right. There, there are some fine points of distinctions and you would, you, you're taking into account the fact that the ball is already in the air and the goalkeeper has, has to make a save on a ball in the air.

And, and when you, when you umpire a lot of indoor, you get a really good sense for what you expect the goalkeeper to be able to do with a ball like that. To not raise it higher, to not make it worse. But we do still. Need to hold the goalkeeper accountable for the ball getting driven into the ground and bouncing at that close proximity to the player.

And that's, that's just the line that's drawn there. So I get it. Um, welcome to democracy, Michael McCartney. You and I both Okay. Get topic game. I enjoyed that. Even those who disagree with me. We'll get you there someday. Okay. Topic two, penalty corner equipment worn outside. The 23 friend of the show, Anwar yellow member popped this into the server.

Gotcha. Mark. I hear what you're saying. Okay, so this was just a couple days ago at the Salton and Jho Cup. So under 21 Competition in Ko Lumpur. And this is GB and Japan. If you haven't been watching any of the Salt and Jor of Jho Cup action, it's on Ashley Morrison's not the footy show channel. It's extremely hard to find when you do a search on YouTube and you try to search, not the footy show.

It just for me. I don't know, maybe Ashley blocked me. I don't know. I couldn't find it, so I needed directions. But if you would like to watch this, um, maybe somebody can, maybe one of the mods can dig up the, the link to the YouTube. All of the matches are being streamed free of charge and are available on replay.

So I am um, probably gonna do a watch party of one of these on replay, cuz the timing of the matches is really. Bad, and I'm just not in a spot with recovering from Covid that I can get up at four o'clock in the morning and do a watch party these days. So we're not gonna do that just yet. Maybe November, but not for October.

Um, so we, we, we might do some replay, uh, watch parties, but the pro league starting too, so there you go. Um, let's see. Ah, you were gonna send this to the server as well, Ribhu. Thank you very much. Um, but that's okay. That's why we're community. Other people can, other people can step up and Ribhu says it's been a great tournament so far.

That's great to hear. Okay, so this will, I, I'm not gonna run a poll on this because I don't think, well, no, I'm, I'm not gonna run a poll because the, the facts of this are very clear is that we have a penalty corner defender who is playing the ball. Outside the 23 meter area, not with a face mask on, but with knee pads.

And we've been talking about this for several months now, and I blame Ron, Ted Kat because he put it into my head that with the way that the rules are worded, we may be in a situation where there's an argument, a pretty good one, that knee guards should not be considered the same way that we consider face masks.

So when I look at all of this, there's a whole bunch of stuff in here that that makes this, um, v very confusing and very ambiguous. Oh goodness. I can't, I can't see anything here. Okay, so here's, here's the, the, the big paragraph here that players are permitted to wear any form of protection bracket.

Including leg protection or knee pads. Okay, that's what we're talking about when defending a penalty corner underneath normal playing clothing, knee pads used for this purpose may be worn outside the socks provided their color is exactly the same color as the socks or black.

And then the provision for face masks is separate. It's, it's all together, just, you know, on its own here. And there's another sub clause of the guidance down here that you're not permitted to wear face masks in any of those circumstances. So there's all these paragraphs specifically on face masks, and when the face mask can be removed.

This here, this paragraph, dealing with the face masks when defending a penalty corner, stroke players should remove their penalty corner equipment as soon as they're able to do so after the penalty corner is completed. If no suitable opportunity to remove equipment arises, they can continue to wear it whilst they were within the 23 minute area without penalty.

Players must remove all protective equipment before they leave the 23 or when instructed to do so by the umpire. But the way that the, the, the particular sentences are constructed and the fact that instead of having knee guards included clearly or knee pads clearly included as the kind of protection they're talking about specifically in this, because they use different defi, different, we call them defined terms.

It's a different defined term from. Body protection to, okay, so it's body protection here, body protection in this clause, and then it's um, penalty corner equipment in this clause. Sorry, I can't see it on the, uh, but it's somewhere in here. Push move of, it's fuzzy. I can't tell. Anyway, somewhere in here, those penalty corner equipment, uh, yeah, I sort of got it.

penalty corner equipment there and then their equipment and they use different terms to describe it. And when face masks are treated so differently, it gets a little confusing as to whether knee pads should be included in that. And frankly, I'm not really sure why knee pads are, are, are concerned about this whatsoever.

Anyway. add to the that part, the fact that gloves are simply gloves and you can wear gloves. Okay. Field players can wear gloves as long as they fit within that box. The fact that players put on additional gloves and they put on hockey gloves, like ice hockey gloves to defend penalty corners and then dis discard them pretty quickly is also treated separately.

That's something that they can wear at any time during the game if they want to. Is it gonna suck? Yes, it's gonna suck, but that's, that's the players choosing for themselves. So, , look at that. That's a mess. Okay. Oops, that didn't turn off. Clear drawing. Okay. Two. Let's find out what you're saying. Hi Andy.

Good to see ya. Yes, there's definitely a lack of a good definition. There you go. Does the big glove also count as pounded corner protection? Well, that, that is a really good question. Field players are permitted to wear hand protection, which does not increase the natural size of their hands, both for normal play and to defend penalty corners in that paragraph there.

Okay, so that's, that's different. So that's not penalty corner equipment. And they can keep that on as long as they want. So we have different sections of equipment and when you think about it, gloves present, no danger to anybody else. They could be an advantage to have them because it helps you stop a ball because you just have more surface area with which to, to make that stop.

But that's why we have the big yellow box. It's not actually yellow in real life. , it's many colors. So that curtails, that potential advantage now turn to knee pads. Is that an advantage to anybody? Or sorry, is that potentially dangerous to anybody on the field? I don't think so. I, I, I just, I I don't see how that could possibly be there, so, oh, there you go.

And Williams got that can fit in the box at any time. Um, hi Steffan's here and let's see. Mike, Vince, the PC's over when precision meters from the D so the knee pads aren't allowed. Um, percentage, did that mean 23 meter? Cuz it's the 23 meter line. It's very clear. It's 23 meter line for the removal of.

Protective equipment for the removal of penalty corner equipment. But what if someone wanted to wear knee pads throughout the rest of the game?

Is that really something that we're gonna step in and say, you can't do that just because it hasn't been done very What? Yes. Yes. It needs to be a defined term. So Ribhu, you're spot on. That's where we're struggling. And if there are different categories of equipment, because some is just protective equipment that's worn at any point in a game, and then there's pro P penalty, corner protective equipment that can only be worn for penalty corners because they pose a potential risk to other players, which face masks absolutely do The risk of collisions, especially with the grill masks, which protrude and have.

Sharp edges, they have the potential for causing injury to other players. Uh, yes, yes. You proactive communication always. But in this situation right here at this moment, it's a free hit defense. If you've missed it, you've missed it. So we talked about this in another, um, another scenario that we didn't have video for that came up on the server, and that was maybe two weeks ago.

And we talked about whether the penalty corner that's now awarded in that far end is, should, should stand or not. And my conclusion, and I think the majority consensus conclusion was that the pe, the pen, this penalty corner here would. Because that's just a missed call. It's just another missed call somewhere that happens outside the 23.

It's not referable, all that kind of thing. And you're not gonna wind back time to all the different calls that you may have missed. If you miss it in the moment, you miss it. End of story. The paragraph that mentions body protection specifically mentions penalty corner. It does, but, but then why does the definite, why does the term change?

Why is there protective equipment and why is there body protection and all those things? So you can infer that connection, that strengthens that argument, but it's still not perfectly clear, and this is what we get to rebut. I think you're absolutely right from the spirit of the game and what we're trying to prevent and things like that, this is the thing that we shouldn't be.

I mean, it seems ridiculous. Like look, look at what's happening in our game and. and, and we want to, we wanna penalize knee pads because it's, we, we want to interrupt the flow of the play. It's not fair that they get to keep playing on. That's not what the rule's about. The rule is not there to make sure that teams have to pause and allow the other team to get back in their defensive structure when they've broken a pc.

That's not the intent. The intent is to keep everybody safe from all the other equipment that players could be wearing and protect them from the ensuing passage of play and being concerned, or maybe them gaining advantage from having more a, a bigger body. Who knows if they're wearing like shoulder pads or something?

I don't know.

So when you put aside that hole, well, they should have to wait before they can go argument. Then the reason for this, The purpose of the rule does not fit how it's being. How we know that consensus wise, we have to apply it. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Thomas, you assume the NEPA were put on, yes, they should be treated like PC equipment and that's not be allowed to war, but at what point?

So what if somebody decides that they're gonna wear knee pads for, I don't know, a quarter? What if I decide I have two metal knees? What if I decide I wanna wear knee pads because they make me feel better, but one of them has caused me a blister. They're chafing, so I wanna take them off. Am I now retrospectively in trouble because I was wearing them not throughout the game, but I was wearing them to defend some PCs.

But outside of that too, that isn't contemplated. That the binary of this makes that very, very tricky. Your question, Luke, the removal of mass are required because we recognize continued wearing can cause danger. Yes. And what danger is there? Okay. And let's see. I don't know who, who's, who's arguing with me explaining, but Michael, you're right.

We're, we're al we're always just explaining things. It only becomes an offense once the defender leaves the 23 ar meter area in replying to Parker suStijn,

um, gods, you think the defender doesn't play the ball outside the circle and the 23 having made a good interception, so if not allowed, would have to just leave the ball resulting in the turnover. Is that fair? I mean, it doesn't feel that way to. It doesn't feel that way. But just to be crystal, crystal clear that the prevailing interpretation, the consensus interpretation is that knee pads are to be treated the same way that a face mask is and has to be taken off.

Gloves explicitly are excluded from that because of this section here, because of this. Oops. Is that working

Because of this whole paragraph here, gloves are completely separate and can be worn throughout the game. Big fat mitz.

So, um, so that's what should have been called here. It just, it feels weird, doesn't, it doesn't feel. . Like, look at this amazing break, this amazing play. Like what a great pass. It's exciting, it's fast. It's all those things. Quick turnover of the ball, you know, this is, and look that umpire's in perfect position.

I think that's Eric. I think that's Eric. So I'm not sure

the box of many colors . Yeah, it's not, but the knee pads don't feel dangerous. It smacks of hastily assembled clauses. Do the addition of face masks and then the one the Yes. So what, what we have really is sort of a piecemeal approach and there's a lot of benefits to adding clauses. The game changes. I mean, we had the situation, it happened at Lee Valley at Pro League when the Americans were there and they rocked up with some actual thigh guards and it was like, what are those

And unfortunately, the tech table wasn't prepared for it. And I think because of the covid restrictions and things like that, they hadn't done an evaluation of the equipment the way that they ordinarily would if they're allowed in close proximity, regular stuff to the players and things like that. And for some reason, those thigh guards skipped, but they actually wrapped around the player's upper leg.

So it's a piece of protective equipment that is not contemplated. And it was like, what just happened there? I haven't seen them again, and I haven't seen an American defender try to wear them again, but. It was, uh, it was fascinating. It was fascinating to, to think about from the techie perspective. So I had a good conversation with my good friend David Elcock about it.

So there you go. Uh, percentage five. Oh, see? And now you know why I didn't get that? Because it's not 25 meters, it's 23 meters. You see why this matters?

Yes, yes, it does say that for this purpose. And again, that strengthens that argument.

And, uh, McDowell saying that you can't wear knee pads generally as a specific rule for that. So there you go. Shin guards versus knee guards. Guess it's gonna be your revision. Maybe someday we'll get that Saturday, uh, you had this Thomas and the PC was given, so you wanna make sure your understanding was correct.

I'm not. . Yeah. Well, we don't know. We're assuming, we're assuming that the, the knee pads were added here, so there you go. Um, y yeah, right. Older people that wanna wear some knee pads and things like that. I really, one of my biggest fears is not actually being hit with the ball. It's actually just falling, it's falling on my knees and falling awkwardly because a ball will sting, but my body weight going into my knees, into the ground, that'll hurt a lot more.

And not the actual bone, but hit, hurt everything around it. So I'm, I'm not sure what would happen. I would probably freak out, but my, all of the nerves are, they've been reassembled differently. It's like a Frankenstein monster down there of nerve connections and so, I, I don't wanna know what would happen.

I just wanna be able to play and feel safe and not put anybody else in danger. That's all. So, can I wear knee pads please? Uh, there you go. Oh, did I skip your comment? Sorry. Four. Four. Only used by goalkeepers. You don't agree with it? Set.

Ah, I understand what you're saying. Four. Four would be here. And let's get to this goalkeepers. Yeah. Following permitted for use only by goalkeepers is this here? Um, upper arm elbow forum. Hand thigh. So thigh and knee protectors. So the thigh protectors. What, and because thigh protectors aren't enumerated, enumerated in 4.2, the American defenders strapping those on.

I was like, they can't wear those. They can't do that.

Of course, I'm gonna watch the Americans closely. Could you argue that extra equipment is an advantage? You're slightly brave. Or snowboarding with a, well, this is the interesting part, right? Alistair? I, I really like this point. How does extra protective equipment change the behavior of players, uh, on the pitch?

And do they make different choices and could they put themselves into more dangerous positions cause themselves more danger because they're wearing extra things. And this is the fine line. This is the, this is the delicate balance that the f I H is trying to strike. And I, I have all kinds of sympathy for this one cuz this is difficult because I harp on this over and over again.

When you look at ice hockey, when you look at American football, when you look at the sports in which players have been putting on more and more gear, it has been proven with the accumulation of data and the higher incidences of injuries in those sports that wearing the stuff actually makes players act more stupid.

And they're throwing themselves into tackles, throwing themselves into the boards, throwing themselves at their. , you know, at, at their opposition. And they are injuring themselves or they're injuring their opposition who they think are protected because they have the same kind of equipment that they do.

But it doesn't change the fact that, for example, brains still get injured, not because of an external force, but because the brain ricochets around in the head. The contra co force. Did that sound fancy when I said contra Co? I'm very fancy. It's the only thing I learned about concussions back in the day.

Um, there you go, Shayne.

That's for you, Shayne. Shut it down. Um, there you go. Knee protectors and ne guards are a different thing. That's, that's an interesting argument as well. Okay. If, let's see. hand, thigh and knee protectors, leg guards and kickers, thigh and knee protectors. What's the difference between a thigh protector and a leg guard?

None of these terms are defined. I mean, it's just a mess. It's really a mess. And honestly for a lot of things other than my own personal, you know how I wanna play, it's, I'm not trying to be a jerk and just saying, ah, the rules are badly rude. What I'm concerned about is that umpires are forced to make decisions based on incomplete or contradictory or poorly worded clauses that players and coaches rightfully can put up their hand and say, this doesn't make sense, and that shouldn't be us.

We should be able to. Apply and interpret rules to the best of our ability for what is actually there, instead of worrying about, you know, how that rule's been put together.

And yeah. Goddards, you, you don't think that the, um, it, it doesn't seem right. You understand the rule doesn't sound right. If he had the opportunity, the 23 to play a pass, he could then stop and remove. Um, there you go. Let's see. You guys, you guys are getting way ahead of me cuz I'm talking too much. So one of those distances that feels wrong in the spirit.

Yes. Like we just have to Yeah, we have to, we have to blow that if we see it. And it just, it was just something that, that messed um, ah, see this is the Rob 10 Cat influence. I'm gonna directly attribute this to Rob because he believes that. If it's not crystal clear and if it doesn't make sense in the spirit, it shouldn't, you know, he goes, he, he umpires by feel.

He's a, he's a very deeply feeling on par. And so, you know, with that, that's, that's fascinating. You, I really appreciate you, you bringing that to our attention. I don't approve with all the ways that the Dutch go off script, but when it suits me, um, he could still be wearing a face mask and wouldn't be dangerous.

True. But at least the rule is clear, very clear in the case of a face mask. Um, and yes, there is an exception for face mask equipment for medical reasons, but could I apply for a knee protector or knee guard or knee pad if those things are all treated differently? Exception for medical reasons,

I'd like to.

It, it could, it could. And that's, and that's the, the, the contrary of that, if Sure that makes me, that makes me feel bolder and playing. Does that mean I'm gonna start sliding around? If a player who doesn't have, like you look at, say, like a Sam Ward who's running around with leggings on, and my understanding, although it's, it's a running joke on let's stick together, that they argue about, you know, how terrible of an offense against hockey it is for Sam Moore to wear leggings even in 36 degree heat.

But my understanding is it's to reduce rashes and abrasions that can get infected and, you know, obviously make him less comfortable in playing because he does dive at the ball a lot. So do we say, well you can't wear leggings cuz it might make you more likely to slide tackle. A player, which is not allowed cuz remember sliding is allowed slide.

Tackling a ball carrier and bringing them to ground is not allowed. That's the difference. And nine 16 also mentions, Rachel, that's an excellent point. Let's find nine 16

knee pads or a face mask. So does that, so it's, it's, it's almost like they say explicitly right there that knee pads are any kind of knee protection. But are, are they knee protection? Are they just knee pads? I don't know. Hand protector, knee pads or face mask? Hand protector. Is it a glove? Does the hand protector is, are there other hand protectors other than gloves?

Okay.

Interesting. Sorry, this has been far too. Oh my. Would somebody, how do you, let me get to 1 0 2 on number two. Yes. There is a difference in the composition between what we could assume are knee protectors and knee pads, but maybe that's not what everybody assumes, especially in different languages or different use there.

Yes. Oh my God. The, the punctuation is the problem. Luke, you're, pardon me? Absolutely right. Thigh and knee protectors is one term. It is a projector that protects the upper leg and knee, not just the knees. It's just amazing. Oh my God. Your comments. You guys let me, okay. I'm gonna go through 'em really quickly so we can get to the next topic.

Um, yeah. Now we see scrum caps also being worn. There's a good, and those are dumb. Those are just dumb. They don't. Help with concussions, people. Um, nine 16 guidance gives the impression that the knee pads are just for PCs, which matches the current consensus, even though it doesn't seem fair. Thanks, Scott.

You're absolutely right. Uh, Michael, to the point where players behaving differently when we were more protective equipment, I refer you to a suicide runners of PCs. Yes. Exhibit two . Same word to likings. Um, there you go. Uh, you think it's a list of different type of s you're allowed. Okay. Grammatical arguments are really hard for me to get into when I'm live streaming because I just, I'm not quite, I'm just not as sharp on that kind of thinking.

I'm trying to be like, that's written analysis and I'm trying to verbally, I'm just not good enough for that. Okay. Defend PC's Naked.

Nope. There's a lot of things I don't wanna see in this world. Need to help the umpire answer these questions. Yeah. That's, that's just what I want. I just want it to be easier for umpires to be able to justify the decisions that they're making. And the players don't understand the rules either says Nick, Eva, the coach, as your coach, you'd want them to play to the whistle, but they can outline outlet from inside the 23.

Yeah. That particular angle that that player hit there in this, in this scenario, he wouldn't have hit it if he had released it from inside the 23. He had to break very quickly if he had tried to hit it at first, but he needed to get past so that that lane was open and he almost released it just almost too late.

Um, the FH is gonna enforce all players in a part speaking English. The someone English revised the word pand. Clear? Yeah. You can't call it a glove if it doesn't have defined fingers. It's a MIT. Okay, so the softball players decided to come in here and tell us about mitts and gloves. So, what's a MIT with, or what is a hand protector that has defined fingers, but is webbed together little mean, not softball?

Tell me more. Okay, let's get onto the next one. We're gonna have to go fast. Here we go. Tackle in the circle. This is gonna look very familiar because we studied a play from this game last week, and then the same, uh, the same, all the same protagonist came back to me and said, okay, what about this one? So I would like to know what your call is.

and add option almost there. Okay. I don't wanna hear anything about the umpire positioning on this cuz the umpire and I've spoken and we've, you know, they recognize that they weren't where they wanted to, where they could optimally be for sure. So we don't have to pick on her for that.

There is the poll results, so look at it carefully. What was interesting to me is that, um, I don't think that was, is that her number? I can't remember. So remember this was Nora, uh, starch up plays for you. Vic top scorer on the team is on the Canadian squad, and I don't know if this was her, I think this was her teammate.

I could go to the TMS and find out if Nora's wearing 15 these days, but I can't tell right now cuz that's too hard. But Nora is also an excellent umpire. She's part of the yellow squad. And she had thought in watching this, her own teammate, she thought this was, might have been obstruction because the ball is being carried in a way for her that made it impossible for the defender to make a tackle.

So we went through a discussion on this. I'm not gonna tell you exactly how that discussion went cause I want y'all to vote first and uh, and I'll tell you what we, what we arrived at.

William for you. The attacker seat are coming and moves her body to block the defender. Ribhu the hand on the back makes you think penalty stroke defender is behind the attacker and is not in a position to make a legitimate challenge for the ball, even though the attacker steps across the defender's line.

Okay, um, penalty stroke for goers. Chris Palmore. The thing that made it impossible to tackle was the defender was the relative speed in position, not intentional shielding. Nailed on penalty stroke for you. If you're gonna attack, if you're gonna cloud of the attacker, says Nick, Eva. Do it outside the deer.

The 23 absolutely good defenders know these things. Just take the card handle the back confirms to you. It was intentional for Thomas Parker, so you'd go with a penalty stroke. Don't think the obstruction as a defender was ev never ahead of the ball, so was not blocked by the body position. Okay, excellent.

So, uh, Stijn the ball's on this stick all the time. Defender cannot challenge from that position without contact penalty, stroke. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm just gonna go quickly into the two minute warning

and here's the pole.

here's the other pole going away. So 72% of you were looking for a penalty stroke free hit for the, depends for the obstruction. 15% of you went for the obstruction and 11% for a penalty corner, which is fascinating because that's very polarized. But for me, yes, nailed on penalty stroke. The attacker was ahead of the defender and there's no onus on the attacker to bring that ball in front of her body and over to the left hand side to say, here, you can tackle now.

Okay, that is a natural carrying position of the ball. And had the defender been in a legitimate tackling position, then we'd say there could have been a potential for a shield, for example, if that defender was in front and running alongside, and then the ball gets dropped back behind. on that right hand side, that can be a shield.

You have to look at where the defender is relative to where the attacker is, and are they in a position knowing that players are running in a particular direction towards the goal. That is the direction which we orient these calls inside. Couple people mentioned the hand on the back. That is definitely a factor for intentionality, but that doesn't have to exist in order for that to be a reckless, high risk tackle that brings a player to ground.

So even without the hand going out, you run on that player's heels or you otherwise make body contact when you're in a position where you cannot, with high probability, succeed at that tackle or with a decent probability. I shouldn't say high, I was bad wording by me. I.

Somebody lost track of her timer. Um, so just finishing that off. It's a high risk position from which to attempt to tackle. If you don't nail it, if you don't somehow get your stick on that ball clean and you bring a player to ground and you otherwise foul them and prevent them from continuing, that is a breakdown.

That is a penalty stroke. That fulfills the definition of intention. Okay. The, the hand on the back just helps. Okay. So let's just say, um, penalty stroke for you, Adam, you've given four and two games to, you're getting, you're getting used to 'em right arm up, right? Right arm, left arm. Just make sure we've been talking about that on the server.

Um, you don't think obstruction, the attacker has the right to play the ball. The button defender isn't a, yeah. Um, Nick, would anyone have a card? Okay. Not just the deliberate. So Nick, we've, we've had a lot of really good discussions lately. Please, you know ch check some of the replays in the last sort of month where I've tried to clearly set out why in some of these situations we would add a card and why in some we would not.

It depends if this had been a repeated breakdown inside the circle, bringing a player to G to ground. If this is not just the first time that has gone for a penalty stroke in that, yes I would give that. If there's something extra in the physicality that makes it even more dangerous. Yes, I would give that.

If that player has already done something, yes, I would give that card. Otherwise, just on its own, I think the penalty stroke is enough and that's what I focus on. So there you go. You changed your mind from a penalty stroke while watching the slo-mo. Oh, don't do that cuz you were right. . You're right. The first time you, Hey, that is the point.

This is why we do this, is to learn. And hopefully when we're all repeating the messages and we're applying the same principles to different facts, situations, we get better at identifying how those facts, situations influence what the end result is. When we can identify that and when we can explain that better to coaches, players, spectators, dogs, that means that we all gain a better understanding of the game and we can help elevate it.

So this is what we're about, Steffan. Stroke. Non automatic 10 minute yellows, the attacker ended up on the floor afterwards is a severe, yeah. So asking the question, and I hope I sort of draw that out. Game context is, yeah, is everything, there are some times where we can see a breakdown foul and we're like, mm.

Yeah, that's just definitely, and spoiler alert, spoiler alert, there may be one of those coming up very close. Okay. Was that, oh yeah. Spoiler alert. It's this one foul on 3D skills. Have a gander at this tasty little morsel that was sent to me. I forgotten the person's name. I apologize. If you're watching, please send me an angry something in the, uh, in the chat.

And I'm gonna ask you about what card you're gonna give on this. Okay.

I feel like I've had, um, I've had to defend, recently had to defend, I've been put in a position of clarifying why red cards aren't given in certain cases. And I feel like, um, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what remedies are available and a lot of people just taking something just purely outta context and then applying a rugby standard, a sports ball standard, uh, another sports ball standard, two hockey plays, and you cannot remove.

or you cannot impose an outside culture on what is very, very different in our sport. And it's different because we have a different cards available to us. We have a whole different disciplinary structure and management toolbox that we can use in order to manage our games properly. So we don't have to apply and we do not apply the same things.

So I'm interested in seeing what you have all that. Nick, you sent it. Thank you. Are you sure? See, you can say that and maybe you're lying and I don't know, but thank you. Yellow card for godders dangerous but not violence for red card. Okay,

everybody's voting. Vote quick. Vote quick because , it's quarter after this Keely hour is going fast, my friends. And don't forget, If you haven't done so yet, especially if you've been voting in the polls, that means I know your mouse works. Hmm. Or the little tap button. So fill in that like button for me please.

I'd really appreciate it. I'm very, very lucky that you as a community are so good engagement. I mean, you would have no idea how many people would love to have a live stream that so much conversation with y'all, and I absolutely love it, but do one of those two, it really helps. Okay. Oh, I , did I accidentally forget to put a red card in this one?

Yeah. It's not an option here. Okay. It's not an option. Um, Luke Dawkin has agreed with Godder. It's a hockey like thing was attempted, but high risk and high impact, and a 10 minute yellow. Okay. Very reckless for Mike. and 10 minute yellow for him. Uh, Rachel. 10 minutes. See, this is great. You guys are the W R T W R T in Cincinnati.

Um, sorry. That's an American thing. Definitely A W R T. Uh, I love it. Let's see. Is there an additional push? maybe? I don't know, but not one taco that you would go even further with it. Okay. And a 10 minute yell for dangerous. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna close this poll. I hope y'all voted cuz you can see it just right off the bat from there.

Okay. Let's, let's see how we all did. , if anybody just went with a free hit. And again, this isn't to beat up on the umpire who was there, they may not have seen it the way that we did. If the umpire was in a mission critical position, it's possible because of the angles that they had missed that. So, you know, we're, we're gonna give some, some compassion there, but, uh, 63% want the 10 minute yellow card, five minute yellow card with 36%.

And , thank goodness, nobody elected any of the other options. Good work gang. And yeah, it's a 10 minute yellow. I mean, that is just so, yeah. And it's, it's, it's not just reckless as to the breakdown, the, the, uh, the attacker, the, the really young little guy. So cute. Takes the ball off in a different direction, does not take it towards the defender at all.

And that attempt around, and this is what I'm trying to tell people who say, well, it's not fair on defenders. How can they possibly tackle that? Well, how can you possibly tackle on the ground when the balls be moving back and forth like that? There is an access upon which you are so, so screwed to try to tackle on.

So what do you do? You put your stick horizontal and try to block that much space and then use your refluxes to block a different horizontal space. So what would you do when the balls in the air and going up and down like this? You block the Y access and how do you block the Y access with an upright stick?

So any player who's coming in slapping horizontally, you're not even trying to get the ball and it was quite dangerous. So, There you go. Thanks everybody for the comments. Alistair's on the, uh, 10 minute yellow and props to the players for brushing it off. I know that would've been a fight in so many other places, right?

I mean, not with me. Okay. Maybe with me. I was getting a little feisty on the weekends, so I think I have some anger issues to brush off here. Oh, we're not on that one yet. We're not on that one yet. We should be on this one. Nope. Okay. Hang on, hang on. That's, that's three. That's three. And now you can see my click up and

I'm trying to remember what this one was supposed to be. Penalty stroke procedure. That's right. Okay. Should I fix it?

Holy smokes. This is a good time being had by all one action. Okay, that's five. That's going right. And then when I go here and I hit this run scene,

see this is, this is always the way, okay. Penalty stroke procedure. It has come to my attention in the server. We had a discussion last night, uh, about how to run a penalty stroke, and I have to visit this every so often because people are doing it. I am just gonna say it. People are doing it wrong. And this brings me to my rant to the week.

Where is my sound effect? Oh my God, I'm so mad. I am so mad.

Just looking for improvement, everybody. So I will observe umpires at all levels of play, including the very top, the very top Olympic umpires who will manage, conduct their penalty strokes by getting into position and saying, keep her ready, Stoker ready, and then blowing the whistle that is in. And there is a very specific reason why we are not doing that anymore.

Let's take it back, friends. Let's rewind this ish back to 2002. The penalty stroke rules read as follows.

Yeah, I'm ca I'm taking it back. 20, 20 years. The player may not take the stroke until the controlling umpire confirms. Confirms that both the stroke taker and the goalkeeper are ready and has blown the whistle. You might say, okay, that's fine. What happened in 2004? Rules of Hockey, Keely? Well, here it is.

The wording is changed. Taking a penalty stroke, the whistle is blown when the player taking the stroke and the defending goalkeeper are in position.

I think I just broke my iPad.

That is a very deliberate change of language, and it happened for a reason. Let me show you this reason. This is, oops. Oh, that's kind of odd. Does that help?

Five. We're already on five. I don't know. Am I gonna make it? Am I gonna make it out of this one alive? I don't know. I found this article talking about the Indian Women's Commonwealth Games, voyage it. It was the quickest Google ever, and I thought, oh, I'm never gonna find the article that explains what happened 20 years ago and caused the rule to change, and yet I was wrong.

So in the article, one of the players is being interviewed and talks about. How a penalty stroke was rudely snatched away from the Indian team after being awarded and was being conducted, snatched away amid protests. Okay. It was taken away because India's, Jodi Sunita Klu apparently took too much time. I don't know why it happens with Indian women's hockey, especially in England, something extraordinary.

Uh, we we have to do something extraordinary and only then do we get the result. Nothing comes easy. So what ha happened was the controlling umpire had asked if the keeper was ready, got the affirmation, asked if the stroke taker was ready. She did not answer because she didn't understand English. It was a massive blow up that I barely was cognizant of.

Cuz at that point I didn't really know much about international umpiring. I had just gotten started myself. And that led to the change in rule to eliminate the question and the need to get ascent from the player. So there is no asking, you are the boss of the penalty stroke, but you're not gonna be a jerk about it either.

You are going to tell the players probably just the first time that you award one. Just say, Hey, we're gonna go on my whistle. It's not a question, it's a statement. Just like you would approach an injector on a penalty corner the first time and say, Hey, on my whistle, okay. Just to remind them. The very first one, not the rest, blah, blah, blah.

And at a lot of levels of play. Now, you don't have to do that either, but I will often do that at my levels of play where I'm umpiring now because players forget and they just like throw the ball in when they're not supposed to. Okay. It happened in my game on Sunday. The team we were, we were playing against, so

you can inform each player. You got some time the goalkeepers doing their th the stick against the pad thing and the, you know, they're, they're doing their their thing and you can walk up to them, destroy their concentration. I'm just kidding. You would never do that. And you'd say keep her, it's going on my whistle.

And then as you're walking back to the stroke taker, it's going on my whistle. You get in position, the players don't know when you're gonna blow that whistle. So they're gonna get themselves into position. Proactively to make sure they're ready. Now, are you gonna blow that whistle before the players are ready?

No, you're not. You're gonna make sure that they're good just by looking at them, but they will be hurrying up because they're actually not sure. And if they start taking too much time, you've got a whole other issue on your hands. Okay? 2004, and people are still doing this, so don't tell me that. Knowing the details and knowing the language and doing things properly doesn't matter because sometimes it absolutely does.

It makes all the difference in the world. And if you are a senior umpire out there and you're like, ah, I don't care. I don't have to do anything different. This is the way I've always been doing it, you can absolutely fuck off with that. Because you are teaching players the wrong procedure and they're gonna be confused when they get an umpire doing it right.

You are teaching the next generation of umpires to do it incorrectly. Just like people still say yards. Thank you very much.

Gods Remember when substitutions are allowed at, yes, substitutions are allowed at penalty strokes. You had this debate in South Central a couple weeks ago. It's not a debate, it's a rule. This is not even a rule. There you go. Emotional damage. It's a very good one. Thank you. Please do post that in the discord, cuz I hope it's funny and it's not rude.

Who is the contender and who is the gladiator? I don't know what's what that's in reference to, but I bet it's good. PC contender. You will go on my first whistle Gladiator. You'll go on my second whistle. Oh, this must be from a movie. I don't know. The sound effect is my voice. I don't know. There you go.

Anyway, I don't know. This is back on the tackling thing, and

you can argue that. Absolutely. And I will accept that because it's not my area of expertise. What I know is hockey. There you go. Okay. Um, let's just see. Kat,

um, yeah, also. Okay. Glad we cleared that up. Now let's see if I can get through the last topic quickly without any more damage. Let's find out. There we go. Now we're onto the foot. No foul. Last one. And it's gonna be really, really quick. Good. Damn it.

My

Jim Butler. Thank you very much for tagging me in the question. And I'm gonna do that really jerk face thing. Get ready for this. Uh, I did say I was gonna talk about possible scenarios where feet inside the circle are not fouls. And then I started doing what I do, uh, with everything,

a little bit of research and I've. I knew, I was like, oh, I've got that clip. I remember when Malaysia was playing in Pakistan, and you know, I'm, I'm going through my brain and I go do a search, and then I'm like, wait a minute, I did a video on this. So Jim, instead of just repeating myself, allow me to point you to this fine video that I did almost two years ago.

Did it work? Did it actually post? I don't think it did. I pressed a button and it was supposed to post in the comments. Let's try that again. Did that work? Of course it didn't. Okay.

Is it here? Really? Tuesday? Oh, it's not there because I'm looking on the wrong video. Dum. Six. Holy smokes. I'm wrapping this up strong. Um, it's in the description of this video, Jim, and anybody who might be interested, look how cute I look there. Look at that yellow hair, um, where I detail what I believe are the considerations for when a foot that happens even inside the circle.

Could be, uh, a play on situation, show you a video on it, and talk about the pressures that are now put on the game because of the advent of video referral. So one of the things that really trips people up when they're talking about this is they say, well, at this level of play or at this level of play, this isn't really a level of play issue except for the fact that when video referral is in place, it puts pressure on the umpires to.

Have to make a determination that doesn't incorporate the notion of whether benefit was actually gained or not. Whether the opposition was actually disadvantaged. It hasn't been clarified to date in the video referral procedures or the guidance or the briefings that the umpires are getting. And it's a real problem because we all know that there are times, including one that I show in that video where absolutely nothing, nobody is as disadvantaged except for the ball carrier who's in space and then has to go back and, you know, corral the ball that he just accidentally kind of gave a tiny little kick with his own foot.

Nothing changed except for him and his pacing. So have a look at that. I'd be interested in, um, your thoughts. Have I changed my approach in the last two years from that? Amazing. December 20th day. Is there something that I've missed? Do you think anything's changed in the last two years? Let me know. In the Discord server and Jim, that means that you also have to join the Discord server and pop in.

I don't think you're in there yet, so get in because we have really good talks and it's fun. Um, let's wrap it up. Let's see. We got lots of age comments coming through. You were old in 2002. No you weren't. You were just a grasshopper with short pants. You were fine. Yelp. Nope. Sorry.

That was one of those. Thank you so much Chris. Awesome. Even with the timestamp at zero seconds. So that's the link. Link is in the description. Thank you very much. So. , let me know, Mike, you had the foot in the d the two weeks ago. Players stopped expecting a PC and you just shadowed play on. If you know, you know, if you know that no benefit has been gained.

If you know that the ball didn't even change direction. And I even had an email from a Canadian umpire who sent it through to myself and Lila and a few other of the, the, the top umpire people asking for some, you know, where is it in the rule book that says that this has to be a penalty corner? I said, well, in 12.1.

In 12.1 it says explicitly it doesn't have to be. And that's all you can say about that. It's, it's just like that if you haven't liked and subscribed and done all those things. Turn on the notification bell as well cuz, and set it to always, I am not gonna bombard you with more than you know at the most two videos a week cuz I just don't have the capacity.

So you'll just get notification of these streams getting set up and coming. So a minimum of 14 people here haven't looked at the video yet. , I don't know what that, I don't know how or haven't liked the video. Oh, I thought looked at the Rule Tuesday video and I'm like, how do you know that? Do you, can you see in my analytics somehow?

That's amazing. Anyway, thank you all for a great show. I enjoyed as always, lots of input and conversation from you. And if you wanna pick up any of these topics you have something that you'd like me to pick up for next week or the week after, like any other week, please bring it into the server. Video is absolutely preferable.

Even if there's an, it's an example that doesn't pick exactly what may have happened to you, but can allow us to talk about the principles. I would love, love to hear and see and then be able to bring them out into the stream for y'all. Uh, if you know somebody who likes umpires, who likes umpiring, who likes to know more about rules and likes to see if I can make fewer mistakes in every live stream on a weekly basis, please bring them along because the more of you the merrier I am, that's what it's all about.

So you are very welcome and thank you Godders, always Ribhu. I'm so glad that you're a regular now. It's great to have you and we will see you next week. Thomas doesn't have any hockey this Saturday. What do you do now? You go find other hockey. There are lots of jurisdictions in England who could use a lot of help, Thomas, so don't be shy.

Thank you, Kat. Thank you. It's great to have you. We'll see you next week. Bye.

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