📅 Nov 23 19.00 GMT
We're truly going global for this #WhatUpWednesday. From a big call in the NCAA tournament in the US, to a tackle in the Hoofdklasse, and indoor youth action in Australia, we're taking it all on. If you miss the live session don't worry, there's always #replaysquad!
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What Up Wednesday? Keely Dunn. FHumpires. Hi. How is it going? I've, I've got my cables out. Things are crazy. You might notice I have a, a we companion in the back. Hi, Selby. Okay. He opened his. Maybe he'll, maybe he'll park up later, but I doubt it. He's, he's an excellent sleeper. Like, I don't wanna brag about my dad's dog, but my dad's dog is very good at sleeping.
He's great. We go for walks three times a day now, and I'm just helping my dad out because my stepmom has flown over to England and my dad's got German classes and he's very, very busy. He's just, he's jam-packed. Okay. How are things? Are we, are we, I I don't seem to be hearing all of my fantastic sounds from some of my things.
Let's see. All stings. I'm usually, there should have been a just really subtle little sound effect and a thing coming across, but you know what helps glasses. It was nice to see y'all in the comments. There's a ton of you here, which is all very nice. Okay. That shit's startup now and the music and all sorts, sorts of things.
So in addition to all the people I said hi to before, like Allister and Shayne and Luke and Rachel as always and that sort of thing, I was just about to click in the wrong window. Luke is here and William, okay, you're gonna catch the end on the replay squad. It's gonna be indoor by the time we get to the end.
So hopefully you are convinced you wanna be an indoor empire if you're not. So, there you go. Paul's here. Oh, you're gonna be replay squad. Alright. Um, yes, you do have a big west meeting. I've heard. So, um, dog speeds. You and I hope it goes well. Sebastian's here. Hi, new friend and yellow. I, I'll get to that in a minute.
There you go. Uh, Rupert's, chiming in here. Here's our, uh, transplant. Nice to. To be there. It's not really lippy, it's just a little Stijn and a little gloss. Look, I'm a subtle girl. You know I don't wanna overwhelm you guys cuz There you go. The name of the dog Lit. You guys will love this. All of you over in the uk.
His name is s. And his, his brother, who unfortunately passed away, uh, maybe three months ago now, who was 16, had a wonderful life, just fantastic dog, adored him. Um, his name was Whitby. So if you know anything, about my family history. My father was born in red car. My mom was born in Darlington and they immigrated to Canada and that's when my, uh, brother and I were born here.
And despite the fact that my dad tries to shed all of his English things, he's. He loves Canada. He is very pro Canada and all that kind of stuff. He's always named his dogs after. Well see, because of their Yorkie crosses, he has to name them after places in Yorkshire. Geez. Do you see where I get my weirdness from now?
Yes, I think you do. I think you do. But there you go. See, people told me, they're like, you know what? You should really make sure that S gets in the livestream. And I said, people don't care about dogs that much, do they? No, they do. . There you go. Hey fam. Oh, you're gonna go indoors next week? Okay. That's fantastic.
Everyone is. You know, next time I'm just gonna like, put him on camera and maybe he can talk to you about, um, park. There you go. You never have to apologize for being late. I'm just glad you're here. Glad you're here and saying hi to Merf. Steffan, you're in Florida for your first US tournament. You've been umpiring 10 games of Lost your Days.
Yes. Right. Well, if you, if you're not in the mindset after doing 10 matches over the last Oh, you're gonna do, you're going to do 10 games. Okay. Absolutely. I love that for you. I love this journey for you. That's gonna be fantastic. Excellent, excellent image. Yeah. There you go. Yelps here. Good to see you.
Okay, somebody got what? Somebody got access to your old account, huh? Cat? There you go. Yes. Every, everybody seems to claim their favorite DEI for their own land and I, you know, I don't think so. Do I sell their 18th? I feel like I have something in my teeth. Okay. I think I did it. You skipped goalie training, Mr.
Denman. Oh my goodness. To eat fish and yeah, it's probably a good decision. Do I still? Okay, there you go. Yorkshire. People were more patriotic to the country than is the country ? Well, I can't pass judgment on that, but I do still have many family members in that area. And when I came over to umpire in the National League, I lived with my aunt.
Who, my aunt who lives in, um, Yar, she lives just off the high street now. And, and, uh, I haven't been to a fabulous new place, but I, I can't wait to see her. I'm going to, when I come over for the conference next September, everybody note that in your calendars it's gonna be a big conference deal. So, and it's all about the alumni.
So I'm gonna come over and, uh, I'm gonna go up and see everybody. So there. Uh, Les. I'm probably more playing you about, you know what? It's okay. It's okay because you are still developing your eye, especially as a goalkeeper cuz you spend so much time processing the game and planning and working and, and thinking about what could happen, what should happen.
You are still in a way, probably umpiring even as you're playing. That's what I. Hi Adam. You had the best fish and chips ever. Yes, that place in Whitby is the best fish and chips in the country. And I can say that because I've tried three probably. I'm not a huge fish and chips fan, but boy, when I went to, if anybody can find the name of that restaurant, please.
Send it over. I, but I have pictures of me with my family there and I love that place. Um, yes, you're all chatting amongst yourselves. That's fantastic. Uh, Steffan is going to the USA Field Hockey Festival under 19 maid event. Yes. And the only chance to get rated. Now for the US this is a problem in a lot of our jurisdictions.
Um, Just, especially with the shutdown and then trying to get back into regular hockey, the one thing that we're really lacking on sometimes is the level of tournament required in order to rate people. So we're having that problem in Canada where there is nothing where we can rate even regional umpires.
Because the only tournaments or events are of that caliber, you're not allowed to get rated at them. You have to already be at that level. But if you're not at that level, cuz there's nothing else to get rated on, how do you, just don't get me started. Don't get me started. It's too early for a rant of the week.
Let's not, let's not go there. Um, you, you had a, you had a player slipping a tweet of a player slipping. It was quite impressive. You should always tag me in things always. It's the only way to get my attention these days, tag me and come into the discord. That's the other way. Okay. What are we covering today?
My goodness. I was, I swore to myself. I'm gonna get right to the content today, right to the content. But you guys are so much fun. Topics for today. NCAA goalkeeper obstruction. Question mark. It is just a tackle question mark. Indoor saver, hit question mark. This is all coming to us just three topics today because I've decided that there's a live streaming law that whatever you plan your content, To, to, to fit.
It's, it's like what, what is the law where your work expands to fill exactly the amount of time that you've allotted to complete it? I've allotted three topics. It's gonna take up the full Keely hour. If I had planned seven, we would've finished in a Keely hour. Just really fast on the last ones, but there you go.
Okay. Um, but I do wanna say a couple thank yous before we get started, because I do. To do that because I have so much to be grateful for. So, oh, come on. I'll just do this. Go back to the scene and massive thank yous. Oops. Oops. Not that one. Not that button. That one.
One. Maybe two. I think that's two errors in one. Big thank you and congratulations to Claire and Gary who have both joined in. The fun and frivolity that is green. And I know it might seem to a lot of people like, well, $7 US a month. That's not very much. And but it really makes a difference because it's about that continuing support.
And I can say, for example, oh, this particular software subscription that I need in order to run this part of my business, I know I have that covered because I've got this many green supporters and that's so helpful to me. So, If you are thinking about maybe, uh, giving a hand and you like the value that you're getting on a regular basis, and you're like, what can I do?
What could I possibly do for Keely? Well, you could join the fhu3t yellow, and here it is, that's the green, $7 a month, yellow is 27, and you receive a really nice chunk of mentoring. Ask anybody in yellow, um, thing, things are going a little nut bar as well because we're spending a lot of time together and getting ready to spend a bunch more, eh, l in Amsterdam.
So let's see if I can pull this up properly. So if you are a yellow member, and I haven't decided exactly when the cutoff date is, but I really do want you to be a member because. I mean, we're gonna be spending some pretty heavy duty time together, and I think it's only fair to you that you know what you're getting yourself into with me.
Okay, so this is, this is about, this is more for your own protection than it is for me. Actually it is for me too. I just, I want to know more about you and your development and who you are and, and all that sort of thing, so that when we are at the eh l finals, I can really tailor my messaging experience to, and, and give you guys the most that I can outta that.
So we have a section in the Discord here, and if you haven't joined the Discord yet, this, this is, oh, this does work. Fhumpires.com/ds. You can come in, you can react on a little Easter, a little chick bursting out of a little egg emoji reaction. And when you're a young member, you can come on in here and you can contribute to the planning and the brainstorming.
And please come over so you can save me from this shirt. Anwar has decided that this is what we should be wearing and I need help. Help. Help. Okay. So sorry, that went into . That went from green to all the fhu3t and then to Amsterdam. But I do wanna thank Sebastian who is in the comments. He has joined Yellow, and I just, I love this journey for Sebastian because he's been around for just a hot minute, right?
It's been a hot minute. He's been hanging out. And he's been active in the chat. He's been in the Discord server and he started out with Green. He's like, well, I'm not quite, I like Keely, but I'm still not quite sure about how much I wanna invest and all that kind of stuff. But now it's on Sebastian, you and I, it's on.
I can't wait to support you in your umpiring journey. So thank you for joining. That's fantastic. Okay, let's get down to it. Oh, You know what I really need to do is I need to remove that from the screen or else it's gonna be there every time. Okay. There we go. First topic. Here it is, the ncaa. I think this was the semi-final game and a potential goalkeeper obstruction.
Let's have a look.
Mag Pi Cafe duly noted.
Cat's testing. Okay.
Well aware. Well aware.
They're very excited.
This created a lot of discussion. Uh, obviously in American on paring circles. Oh my God, we have a dispute. We have an argument about fish and chips.
I love this exchange that's going on. I don't know why I missed that. Ginette was going to get dinner. Ginette's going to get dinner. Maybe she's going for fish and chips. I bet. And, uh, Steven doing the, the putting the effort into Remind us all to hit the like button. I mean, just go nuts. Go do it. There you go.
Very manys. You guys are so polite. I'm just glad you're here, gutters. Thank you. And that is the emoji reaction. That is the chick. There you go. Y Candice, like, come on. I'm not wrong. Am I? Okay, I can begin. See how I, I'm able to stall things for you. Ginette. I'm here. Oh, are you gonna come? Godders, oh, this is gonna be so amazing.
The end of this game was crazy. Yes. Rupert was the one who actually furnished me with the best version of the clip. So, Rupert, thank you very much for doing that, uh, without people like you giving me the actual footage. It gets really crazy for me to try to track things down and, and all that, so I really appreciate you sending that along.
Ginette, are you coming too? Oh. Oh, okay. Now that we've caught up with the chat and you guys have had a few minutes to look this over, let's see, Cat, um, I'm not sure if you're ready yet to start a poll, so I'll start this one and then maybe you can help me out. With the next. Okay. Um, let's see.
With the next poll add option. I guess I probably should have told you what the options might be if we were gonna do this, but, okay, so start of the poll. Feel free to get in there. I love to hear your opinions and your thoughts. And again, at the end, I really do like to try to wrap it up with a bow.
Hopefully what I've been able to do throughout the discussion is be able to give you a perspective as to what the consensus, the best decision really. And you might disagree and that's okay. Um, you might wanna think about the reasons why that is and, and go through the logic with me and really work on it.
And sometimes, you know, there have been occasions where, several occasions where I've given my arguments and somebody's been able to change my mind during the broadcast because their arguments are very solid. So this is about, we go through principles. We go through the actual rules and then we build up to, uh, the, the consensus an answer and try to really flush that out.
So let's get into this. Okay. Good to see. Alistair, I'm really glad you popped in and I hope you hit the light button before you go. There you go. Shayne s Okay, so the commentators . It's really funny because not only did I get this from er, but a few of my friends, I've got a group of of hockey friends down in, uh, California, the Oh yeah, team.
Oh yeah, hon. Honestly, it's the Kool-Aid man. That's our logo bursting through. And, um, Lindsey Cooney shout out, uh, sent me this as well, and. And, and it's so interesting because everybody who watches a game like this and hears the commentators frames their questions, their own inquiries according to what the commentators say, um, which I really try to rail against because I, I know that language is everything it define.
What our perceptions are, it validates our opinions. It cuts off lanes of inquiry, and it can cause us to look at things in a way that doesn't help us get to the best answer according to how hockey rules should be implemented. So what we're looking for here is. Obstruction. So when they say that when we say anybody says a goalkeeper can't cover the ball, it's because to do so would be an obstruction because by using their blocker to prevent access to the ball, you have obstruction.
And particularly in this kind of. What the attacking team were looking for in the video referral was a penalty stroke because they believed that the obstruction had been committed and in doing so, it was intentional or at the very least, you know, in, in the form of reckless as to the result of being obstructed.
But I think when it comes to goalkeepers using their equipment to block access to the ball, we can go with a more, you know, common definition of intent. So that's good. I wanna hear your thoughts before I start breaking it down a little bit more. Keep going on the vote. It looks like we might have a pretty split result.
Right now, penalty strokes are leading with 52% and Jeanette, you said one, you thought one thing, but you just seen something else that might change that vote. Can you change your votes? I don't think you can. Rado my best friend. I'm glad you're here. Thank you for coming. Bye. Ball was free to stage goalkeeper that intentionally obstructed the attacker who had an opportunity to play the ball.
Uh, for gers. Sorry, that was Stijn that just said that part. Uh, gers The ball was available immediately after the save. Goalkeeper use of the left hand defines the decision. It's a penalty stroke for Stijn Gideon, you think the goalkeeper obstructs the ball Ice hockey style by intentionally planting love over ball penalty stroke.
Oops. What just happened? I don't know. Oh, were you kidding me? ESPN U Punks,
and now you're just happening. Let's see if I go back to this.
Well, the stream is still temporarily blocked. Let's see if it comes.
Okay. Let's see if you guys, you've lost a stream, two stream unavailable.
It might come back
and let's see. Boy, this is fun. Hey.
I mean, it took them a few minutes to figure out,
oh, Radis love. This is what I'm talking about. That's a great comment.
I'm starring. Stream unavailable. Come on, let me come back.
You're good on the clip, by the way. Is that the ball's playable by the attacker and doesn't make an effort to do so, but very hard without the same camera angle from the other sideline.
What are you doing?
Reapply the lippy. Take two. Goodness. Okay, this is the fun part. Let's see if I can help get everybody over here. Hi.
Let's see options. Get shareable link. And if I go back to studio. Hi
I, I was just sitting there going, oh man. Should I just keep waiting? Should I keep waiting? I should've just kept waiting. That was my bad, you guys. That's my bad. You know, but
I'm going to the wrong places. Okay,
let's see if you can go. Yeah, it was a espn Rupert, glad you're here. Can, can you guys do me a favor? Uh, cuz I don't know how to do it. Hi Adam. Glad you're here. Can you go, can you copy this link to this stream and put it in the comments for the last stream? So, um, yeah, it, it, it will be a different address altogether.
Uh, Jeanette. So I need your help. , I need your help on this one cuz I dunno how else to get it. To get it going. Um, if I come back and go to this and comments and, oh no, I have to get a studio in order to do this. You thought I was already live. Yeah, I was already live. I was already live and then everything went wrong.
Okay, so I'm putting a comment
I'll wait for you a bunch.
next. Jeanette's, uh, fish is gonna get cold. Hey, what's going on? Oh, I know what's going on. My replay was playing and so the theme song was going, Sylvie, were you, come here, come here. Sylvie, come. Sylvie's barking at the door. So that stop. Come here, come on, come on. I'll do this while everybody's coming on over.
Come here. Okay. So despite the problems that we just had, I have a dog. So is everything better now? This iss Hi. As you can tell, he's pretty awesome. He's very cute. He has an O teeth, especially on that side of his mouth, so his tongue just hangs out and it's black because he, he's been eating blueberries.
Because that's what I'm supposed to feed him. So there you go. Thank you. Oh, thank you. You guys are doing a great job. Keep you, keep doing that. I'm gonna put Sylvie on his perch while you guys are still coming, right? I mean, if this show's gonna be a shit show,
okay. Be comfortable.
So, David, if you're listening still, what you will find interesting. Is that I was showing a clip from the NCAA Final four Hockey Championship, and they killed, they killed the stream in the sense that they, it was all blacked out, but the stream was still alive, but it was taking so long. I thought that it was not gonna come back.
And just as I ended the stream, I can see everybody's comments going in. Oh, she's back. And I'm like, no. So it was really pretty terrible and . So it's gonna be really hard for us to finish up this topic because the argument that I'm gonna put forward to you is very much about what we saw. So I don't know if you'll be able to, I don't know if that they even show that part.
So if you have it up in another window, let's see. When they start blacking it out.
Right. So you can go, you can go back to the other, the other link and you can see where we had gotten to. But the two comments that I saw, , that's the best tongue in the world. I know. He's pretty cute. Oh my gosh. It's gonna be a heavy fine. I know. This is, this is like one error compounded by 20 times. It was pretty big.
Oh. And there he goes. He went into his little puffy bed. So there you go. Oh, Andy, you're here. Andy, you have no idea. Just the chaos that is erupted. But there you go. He needs a wait. That's a terrible joke. Mr. Denman apologize right now. Yes. And it looks like Gideon had a, um, I don't know, is that a fish name place?
It probably is right Jeanette? We don't tolerate this kind of behavior. Okay? Everybody's here it looks like. How many of you got 21? Okay, that's, I'm so excited that any of you even came back. So there you go. So let's get to the comments about this. Sean. Assuming the goal the goalkeeper did cover or shield the ball with her left blocker glove, it would be a penalty stroke.
Yeah. And it is difficult to tell from the angle. Luke, what did you have? Uh, your opinion is the goalkeeper is making an effort to clear the ball and was being obstructed by the attacker who was pushing the ball back into the goalkeeper rather than trying to play the ball. I like that. Luke, I like that angle a lot.
From what I saw from, from my interpretation of, of what I was seeing in front of me is that the goalkeeper's blocker was perpendicular to the ground and sort. You know, peril. And it is, it's just like a player who, a field player who wants to drag the ball off to the side, who wants to pull the ball to the right and move around a player, they're permitted to put their, their stick to that side of the ball.
And just because an attacker might be over here, look at that. Focus on my fingers just, and if the attacker's over here and is trying to reach around that, like, they don't have to like present it and say, okay, now I can't dribble to the right because if I do so I'm gonna be blocking this player from the ball.
They don't have to. Constantly presenting, be presenting equal as access to the ball. Instead, what I saw is the goalkeeper's ready to push like this, but then yes, her teammate comes in. There is no rule against more than one player trying to play the ball at the same time. That is not third party. Third party is when you're obstructed from playing the ball because a teammate of a player who is carrying the ball inter poses their body between a defender and the ball carrier.
That's what third party is. It's not three people trying to play the ball. It's very likely some other kind of foul could happen, like a stick obstruction, because just logically speaking, there's so many sticks in there. It's probably gonna get a little bit messy, but that's not third party. So what they didn't a nice job of in the clip was talk about how it needs to be conclusive evidence.
And, and a couple people did comment in the last, um, on the previous stream that there appeared to be, it, it could have been a, a much better angle to see things from the other sideline. I don't know if that camera angle was available to the, uh, the video officials because the, the official who's sitting on the table Now, Rupert, if you know better than this, please do correct me, but my understanding is that person is not actually making the decision.
They are transmitting the message from the on-field umpire. Who is Diana McClain? You guys know her very well. Back to a room in the stadium where there is a video umpire, and that video umpire is the one having a look. And making the decision. And that person is a highly ranked official. I'd never heard of that woman sitting before who was sitting at the mic.
And I would've been quite surprised. I mean, maybe, maybe I just don't happen to know them, but I didn't think that that she was making the decision. She was getting the message from the actual booth where they have a whole bunch, not a booth, but it's a room. I've seen a picture of it in another stadium and there there's a few screens and televisions and they're sitting there going through the footage themselves.
So that's kind of interesting. Um, you, I like that Stijn. I mean, I'm here, so shouldn't everybody be Yeah, absolutely. Um, are we gonna get a lab report?
God, that is so bad. Oh my gosh.
No, no. I'm not even gonna say that one out loud. Steven. You're terrible. Rupert, your feeling was that the goalkeeper made a triangle around the ball with a hand pad and stick.
Okay. I've got my footage up on another screen, and
I mean, that's, that's really interesting. But, but her stick always stays parallel to the, the end line. Okay. So if her stick is here and her block is here, you can't say that she can't play it with both those objects. She's, she's allowed to use everything at her disposal. She just can't obstruct with it.
So I'm not convinced just on the basis of that, that there is an obstruction because there's no attacker behind the stick. That would be obstructed. And why would we even call that anyway? Because she's stopping the ball from potentially going in that direction, which happens to be towards the goal. It's kind of her job not to let that happen.
So that's an interesting point. Um, I am definitely gonna take you to the pound, no route provided out by the defense. Thank goodness this is an indoor, but what we do in these situations, when an, if we judge that the attacker has access to the ball, maybe it's not the access they want, but that's kind of the point of goalkeeping.
And, you know, we're, we're not here to say the goalkeeper has to go like this and, and let the attacker grab the ball. The attacker is a solid, immutable, immovable object. You can't push through them. So one person I think in. Uh, the server commented that they didn't see any swinging by the attacker, therefore, it wasn't dangerous and we actually don't apply.
A strict danger has occurred here, therefore we're, we're gonna call it, but it's likely to lead to danger. And right there, the attacker has her stick on the ball. I'm watching the replay again outta the corner of my eye, and the attackers are stick on the ball, but she is reaching around and that's like, she can move her feet there.
She just decides not to. She plants down like that, and she doesn't try to get the ball out. She's just pushing the ball into the goalkeeper's blocker, which is, which is here. And she's got her stick around the ball and she's pushing the ball back into the blocker there instead of, oh, I don't know. Just trying to go underneath the ball, flip it over the stick and put it in the goal.
Crazy thoughts. This is when Keely starts talking about how to play hockey better and maybe she should shit up. And I just referred to myself as the third person. That was pretty terrible. So not, I am not convinced that there's enough there that you would overturn the initial decision that was made on the play on, on the, on the call.
The video empire does not have any clear reason to change the decision, as it were. Thank you, David. I mean, the way that I just recovered from getting suspended for a policy, you know, copyright violation. I didn't even think, oh, I'd really hate to have to see them too, but I'm going to. Okay. Um, you haven't heard anything about who was making the decision?
You're not that high up. Okay. emotional damage. Yep. I need, I need that. Oh, I need that sound effect. Why don't I have that? Okay, you guys, Ugh, Denman, you were cut off. Okay. This is it. You're done. You didn't see an attempt to play with the blocker, just putting it there to prevent the attacker from getting to the ball, but the attacker could access the ball just not at the angle that she wanted.
She didn't cover it this way or this way. She was blocking it from going. In that direction around her. She had access to the ball, right?
For Shayne it was playable. The attacker was holding the ball against the goalkeeper hand pad. No obstruction from what we can see. Right. And again, I think it's a really good point that we don't have a great angle. So, you know, we're not gonna get too, too
The keepers, they object and they're objectionable. Maybe. Just kidding. Uh, we do love our keepers. They are insane, but we love them and we need them. So please don't quit on mask because of anything that I say ever. Uh, if we're saying there was no access here, it would be a penalty stroke. Why would it be different in other scenarios?
Um, I'm not sure if we said it would be different in other scenarios. So let me know. It's just there are times, for example, where a goalkeeper is accidentally sitting on the ball, they don't know where it is, and they're like, uh uh uh. And that's when you would only call a penalty corner for an unintentional obstruction.
And you're not gonna say that a keeper is being reckless as to potentially committing an obstruction because they're on the ground. Well, again, it's their job to go on the ground. , there's insane and then there's hockey keepers. Would you guys focus, God Denman leads us off on a fantastic run and then y'all are just going crazy.
So, Denman as if we're calling, wait, let's go from here. Why would it be different in other scenarios as we're calling an obstruction, stopping an attacker from playing the ball? The only difference is if we think it's deliberate. Yes. If there cuz accidental obstructions occur. , they absolutely occur when it comes to blockers.
Goalkeepers tend to have more control over what they're doing, right? If you can see the ball, if, if, you know, if you're moving your hands, like what is the likelihood, what is the reasonable reaction from a player there? And it's, it's, it's different than other parts of your body. And, and whether you fall on something and you can't even see it, I mean, we know you got, you got helmets on and neck guards and you got all this extra gear on and it's sometimes it's hard to see where that, where the ball is.
So I hope that helps. Just a little holiday violation. I know the poll should've had to restart with a bully option.
Focus. Sony, I have enough problems today. Ahas a correct. We'll keep his, our amazing people there. And there we go. We got some bonding in the live streaming crew. Um, very, very difficult to call without the additional angles, so . I know, right? Let's go if I can carry on. So can you. Let's get this done. Okay.
Um, yeah, you have the armor. It's true. So let's go . I I need to go back to my, the correct page of my stream deck. Let's go with the two minute warning
and, sorry we didn't have a poll.
So in those kind of situations, what you're looking. I think is you're making sure that you as an umpire, first of all, are giving yourself the best view possible of that situation. That's often gonna mean that you're gonna be flashing up inside the circle in order to find, um, uh, there you go. Oh, oh, okay.
Thank you, Robert. Um, so that you can look around. Your colleague may be able to help, but they're probably gonna be quite far away in this moment to see something that's such a fine detail as say an angle of a pad or, you know, a momentary this or, Or intentional that, so this really does depend on you.
And if you don't have access to video referral, i e all of us, then it's your job first and foremost to be mobile in the circle and have the confidence that when the ball is stuck is not stuck. I don't wanna infer a result the ball has, has stopped, or is no no longer moving and is against the goalkeeper's body.
At some point have the confidence to step around and look back and see what you can see. If an attacker is pushing the ball at a goalkeeper in this situation, it is a free hit. Even if there isn't a wild swing involved, because I don't know, I've heard goalkeepers complaining about how well they're still pushing the ball straight at an unprotected part of my body and this is actually starting to hurt.
So umpire, could you please make this stop? And our reply to that is we shall do that right away. Okay? So think about how we're still protecting goalkeepers despite the fact that they have protective equipment and that as long as a goal as an attacker has access, then we are going to call that as a free hit out.
Thank you so much, uh, Luke, for pulling out this result for me. Uh, half of the respondents wanted a penalty stroke, uh, penalty corner for 27% and free hit defense for 23%. So, uh, for, and I think some of you, again, this is the fun part about it. Like you guys are answering very quickly and immediately, and I love that part.
And then it's about our discussion that we can flesh out what we've seen, clarify the principles, apply them appropriately to what we agree that we're seeing, and then come up with this best answer. And I really do believe that here, unless we could have access to a different angle that shows us a different motion of the goalkeeper that is possible, I've, the stuff that you can see from a different angle will sometimes blow your mind.
And you're like, oh, that was a bad angle. That did change everything. So don't assume necessarily that because we didn't see it, it didn't exist, but we're going by the information we have and we're applying the principles to the information we have. Jeanette's changing her mind. There you go. Um, Rupert, you've been watching this since Friday and only seen you were looking at the wrong stick
Yeah. Looking at it on a bigger screen can help Rupert. I'm not a, an expert actually am, but okay. I'm an expert. Look at it on a big screen. It really does help. And yes, uh, Godders is absolutely right. The dynamic circle movement is crucial. Um, you're building, uh, focus in your video clips. Oh, it was a, it was a big focus of your, uh, clips from the coaching on Saturday.
I love that. That's, that's excellent. And, um, yeah, that's, that's an important part about circle positioning is staying mobile, not getting too planted. You want to look calm. You don't wanna be sort of rushing and moving with no purpose, but you want to be able to adjust quickly. And then when you're making your decision, you're right on top of it.
Players look up, you're right there, you're at the right angle. They can see that. You can see they've got nothing to say and off they go. Okay, you're heading towards the free hit defense, but you want access to the umpire's angle. Yeah. Yeah. We actually, we don't have the, we, we don't have what Ayanna was seeing there, um, which is, you know, hey, the way it goes.
Um, yeah, you're you're very welcome. I hope that helped and I'm, I'm interested to know what, what the sort of key, what was the key that turned that for you? Which key turned the lock? Nick, I have a feeling this is gonna be interesting. So ball trapped PC keeper shields the ball, not obstruction, attacker hits blocker.
Um, free head defense? No, no. . Um, so ball trapped, could be pc, could be penalty stroke depending on how it got trapped and whether that was in intentional or reckless as to the result of committing a foul. And then the next part, Nick, uh, keeper shields. Ball. The word shield. This is why I'm so big on language.
The word shields indicates that there is an active motion, you know, in there. But anyway, even if, even if we remove shield and we say obstruction said keeper, obstructs ball, not obstruction. No, those, those things are contradictory. So just remove the, the part about the shield so we get to not obstruct.
Because attacker has access to the ball, can play the ball, attacker hits blocker free, hit defense or attacker pushes ball at goalkeeper and just holds it against them. And yeah, that's either danger or, you know, just stupidity. I shouldn't say that. It's not, cuz how many of us have done that when we've played all the time?
Uh, the thing, your biggest learning here, your biggest learning here is that you've learned from today's game is that it's, it's okay not to see things because of angles and it's okay to trust your colleague. I like that takeaway, Mr. Dunman. That is fantastic. And the bigger point was the attacker wasn't blocked from the ball.
Yep. And she didn't move. Yes. Thank you. That's, that's a good simple reply. Getting back to the baseline, the back line is fine, but owning your circle Yeah. Is so important. You move anywhere in your circle, Luke, to make sure that you have the best angle on an important play. Excellent. You can't find the pole stuff.
Okay. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's the plus button at the bottom. So if you go to the comments cat, and at the bottom there's the super chat. Have any of you ever sent me a super chat? I don't think you have. You can send me super chats now. Super chat. And I don't have a fancy graphic for it, so don't do it. Well, no, you can.
I wouldn't be mad. Um, so if you go to the bottom of the comments underneath that, there is an emoji, there is the super chat and then there's a plus sign. And the plus sign is where the ad poll option is. So there you go. We're all learning together here. You could all be YouTube channel managers. It's too annoying.
Okay, that's fine. I get it. Yes, Sean, that's because we're in a different stream now. . Oh, I don't know if you're about to give me another hot take or, that was good. Anyway, two minute warning. I went way over time. Sorry. Apparently I need to focus now too. It's almost one o'clock.
Question two, is this just a tackle? I don't even know what that means. What is just a tackle
Listen to what Celine says.
He likes you.
The blur didn't work. That's interesting. Okay. Um, as per usual, we will play many angles of this and let's see if I can get into the studio at least and get the next poll started.
I need to change the video resolution. No, I don't. You two. Can you see this ? Good work, Kat. Okay, now you can make a poll. Okay, so Kat poll options are penalty stroke. I'm like going like this. Penalty stroke penalty corner.
penalty corner for intentional foul outside the circle. Restart with a bully. 23 meter restart with a bully for Shayne. Let's see. Oh, that extra nudge at the end says Rupert. Okay. There you go. I just love that. And Rich, again, sorry, I was, I wanted to focus on the, the video as it was playing with the audio, but thank you very much for the super chat and it, it works.
It works. I just now need a stream Labs widget. Is that what I need, rich? I dunno. You're gonna have to. I am not used to donations. Uh, that extra nudge at the end is very interesting. Okay. Uh, just working through the hole of the clip, what you can see is that there is an aerial ball that's mishandled by the defensive team, and the ball was deflected over the heads of an attack.
And a defending teammate at that point, that is not an aerial ball because you can't expect players to react to something that's purely accidental in the moment, right? That's just too, that's too difficult. Thank you. The pole's up. You're doing great, Kat. This is awesome. So what we're looking for in that situation is simply to apply danger.
Okay? So now that we're happy with how the ball arrived onto the attacker stick, who then breaks towards Celine's Circle, we're now gonna assess what happens along the way. And you know, it's just interesting that the headline, that the, I can't remember if this was hockey and l or, or which, which particular Instagram account posted this, but, uh, could have, I think it could have been icons.
Um, do just a tackle. Well, does that mean not an intentional tackle? Like what question are they even asking? I don't even know, but there we go. Um,
Did I say that even remotely correct? If not, I'm apologize. Um, let's see. You, you like the PC for the intentional file outside the circle. Okay. Thank you for that clarification and I appreciate you letting me know. Let's see. Godders, what do you think? The file outside's clear, which would be a PC, cannot tell about contact in the circle.
Because I think what you're, what you're implying through this Godders is had you been certain that there was contact inside the circle afterwards, you would then progress this to a penalty stroke because it's an intentional foul, or at the very least highly reckless as to bringing down a player in the circle who just happens to have a really good potential scoring opportunity.
But that is not material. That is not the part. I actually had a text come to me from a good friend who said, oh, an umpire told me that the intentional foul inside the circle has to stop a potential goal scoring opportunity. And I'm like, no, no, because then clause, clause B would never be needed because clause A covers the probable goal part anyway.
Rado, you'd say penalty stroke for the elbow at the end after an advantage for the tackle before that. Nice. That's a good assessment. Rado. I like that. Gideon, the original breakdown outside the D is a PC and a card, but that little extra nudge light is, might make it a p stroke. Um, th this is probably like me right here.
This is how I looked at this cuz it was, yeah, that little nudge at the hip. That's the one. Okay. How, what do you think is needed for an umpire to be able to make this assessment? What did Celine need to do really, really well here In order to make this call, Stefan, you don't see the intentional contact inside the circle.
You do see the foul outside. So you give the PC for the intentional foul outside palmore. Now she's gone down p penalty corner for you. I need more words to explain what you're thinking. The clear file outside. And you agree with gutters? Yep. Agree with gutters. You do think Celine has the best angle to decide because it's coming straight at her.
You like that? That's the key. Okay. When the play breaks like that, it's a real test of our anticipation and our general understanding that when an aerial ball is coming from our colleagues end, our job is to be handling everything that happens in the front side of the play. Once that ball gets received or lands or whatever the case might be, that means that we don't have to help them with stuff that's happening on the backside of the play.
We need to be far enough ahead. That when the ball breaks, we're gonna be able to stay ahead of the play, even when the ball gets mishandled as it did in this particular instance. What that means now is that Celine is ahead, she is running back to her, her back post. She's getting into our happy place and hopefully this time we don't, we don't see her in the picture.
But the best position any umpire could be in is at this moment, perhaps, and there's a lot of contact here, so it'd be really hard to choose when to do your spin, when to run ahead, and you might have to, unfortunately, spend a little bit of time looking over your shoulder here, but you're sprinting ahead of the play and then you're pivoting, you're rotating, so your shoulders are open and these players are coming towards you.
And you are in your happy place. So as they're coming towards you, you can see this breakdown. If you've started too high and you are running alongside these two players, you don't have a hope in hell of getting this right. You just don't. And that's why these trailing tackles, why it's so important for us not to be doing the old school, Jay Hook, European outside, even 45 degrees ahead.
You wouldn't see that foul. You have to be ahead of the play and you have to be seeing it coming towards you in order to have the best chance to make the accurate decision. Okay, that's what we need to do. Um, oh, any tips on how to learn that positioning ? Absolutely. Steve, when we come back to this in just kind of a.
Yes. Um, paring position is key, Shayne. The view from the baseline is the best with the play coming into the circle. Yep. The attacker did still have a chance to have a shot and the little nudge did just enough to finish her off. Taking her down. Yeah. And this is the tricky part about playing advantage from the, the intentional stick obstruction just outside the circle.
Is that that interruption? Does the player have sufficient opportunity to get inside the circle and do something good? Is that a better opportunity than a penalty corner in that moment? Had an umpire made the decision here as this stick comes down right there and said, I'm blowing that, I'm blowing the penalty corner.
I'm also going to upgrade that because of what's ha Or I'm also gonna apply a personal penalty because I thought that was a, a really big moment. I thought it was very physical. I have given out other cards for breakdowns early in the game, blah, blah, blah. All those things could be factors that could be a straight card right out of the gate, even if nothing else had happened just because of the impact on the play.
That's fine. Um, so if you have made your decision right at that moment, you've said, you know what? She doesn't have better advantage than a penalty corner here. I'm going to stop this play. I'm gonna award that card and I'm gonna award that penalty corner. Nobody would have, you know, a boo. The key is, can that player develop something better?
Could they have an opportunity at shadow goal, or could they have an opportunity to earn a penalty stroke in this situation? And you see the result. The, the result is the, is the evidence of the advantage being well played here. I think so I can unders, I can understand that for sure. Um, which way they went and I mean the, the attacker does sort of stumble but the reason she trips over her foot I think is because she's just got that little nudge on her hip.
And I remember making a decision very similar to this , I remember it so clearly cuz it was emotional damage. It was very traumatic when I was at the European under 21 championships and I was umpiring a pool match between Netherlands in Germany. And I had similar, like, exact same sort of scenario where Dutch attacker is dribbling towards me.
Miraculously I was ahead of the play and German. Defender just gives her that little nudge on the hip. It wasn't up here, it didn't trip up her feet, but it was on the hip. And that's where, that's where, especially for women, that's where our center balances. And just nudged her off enough that she then, as she was trying to take the shot, she missed the ball.
And it was, it was subtle, but it was ab absolutely there. And I called the penalty stroke and I got killed. I got absolutely ripped a new one in the debrief, and I am in tears. I am, this is my first neutral appointment ever. I'm just bawling my eyes out. And my colleague, who happened to be Louise Knight, who is now an F I H U M, said I saw the same thing.
Umpire manager wasn't having it. The , I th I can't remember if it was the, if which team, it was actually the Dutch team for some reason, the manager had footage, they had their tower footage and invited us to go look at it. I don't know why cuz they would've been happy with the call, but, oh yeah, they didn't know why we wanted to look at the decision, but the, um, had asked for it and we all trundled into their little dorm room at the University of Dublin and we're all sitting in there and my eyes are all red and my face is puffy and and Louise is just looking at me like, come on girl.
Toughen up. You're gonna be okay. We looked at the footage and my, um, turns to me and she says, Keely, you can't let people tell you the wrong decision like that. That was absolutely correct.
And I just, I was like, but what, what, what am I supposed to do?
Anyway, those are very difficult to see from many angles because of where it comes from. But the impact is very real. And, let's see. Yeah, Celine obviously did, says Godders, , Celine, not feline. Yeah, that's cool. I, I, I got that one. Um, Rachel Celine's angle. There wasn't anything else apart from the penalty stroke and you've changed your mind from the pc.
Okay. Fair on. Slowmo. Looks like the nudge is just outside the circle. So PC and card for you do CP if you wanna learn the best position. Thank you, William. Gotta go. Okay. Um, you see the tip section when you go to yellow?
I am not sure exactly what that means, but thank you. There's a link for you. Um, there is the hip hit push in the lightest of arms as a defender. Best not to make the umpire. Have to make that decision. Yep. Yeah, she may have it, it's so hard because she's at full stretch and there's a significant impact right here in this moment as the ball comes across and there's a little bit of hip to hip there.
And then th okay, not that nudge. Hang on. Now I'm starting to think about,
okay, so right here is the moment with the nudge on the hip. I, I believe I have that part straight. Is the player inside the circle? No. Is the ball inside the circle? Yes. That's the push there. So I understand, you know, how you're seeing it. Um, you don't buy that it plays, it's in a completely different direction.
No, no. You can say it's subtle, but you can't say it's in a different. Sorry. There you go. And there's a expanded link. What are you doing wrong with your links? I'm not sure. What are you doing wrong with your links? Okay. See you. And you've been great. Minus the a ESPN strike. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have to sort that out pretty soon.
You would've played advantage there given the position of the attackers and because the attackers on the forehead. That's a great point. Godders. I mean, and especially because the circle entry was also advantageous. It was quite near the, the top. It wasn't off to one side. That's something else that you take into account.
What kind of angle would this player have to shoot from if they get inside the circle? Okay. Firstly says Mr. Palmer, it's a PC for you. Dumb blows army. She was thrown this a long way, um, and chased it. Are we a hundred percent happy she has possession and fouled or breakdown on the chance? The breakdown on the chance of a free ball was enough.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm fine with that,
but I do not think, I do not think at this point that, um,
you know, at, at, at this point, like, I'm watching what you're watching too, and she's, she's going in and that stick absolutely obstructs her from picking up the ball
in that moment. So,
So that part of the foul for me is there, there's just no question.
It, it doesn't matter if the,
if that player,
uh, okay. I am trying to think, I'm trying to think this through and make sure that I don't screw this up
because the ball was inside the D
the action of the nudge affects the play of the ball inside the D, therefore, the foul was inside the D. Does that make sense? Am I on drugs? Please tell me because I'm not fully confident in saying that. It, it sounds to me like that's correct, but I also do have warning bells going off because I think what Stijn has said is, is legit you changed your mind and now Yeah, and we, we gotta be careful about that, right?
I mean, we get when you, you've probably seen it 30 times now, , and so we, we can talk ourselves into things and I'm very mindful of that when I'm talking, and that's why I really value all of you chiming in the way that you do. So there you go. Um,
uh, Stijn quoting me, the rule does not clarify this point. Sorry, I'm, I'm gonna gonna be hard on you here because I really don't like it when we're trying to find out the nuance of the logic behind whether a foul happens inside or outside the circle. And all you do is quote the rule at me that clarifies nothing.
Okay. Because it's not, you know, what if half of the player's body is inside the circle and half is outside the circle? Where is the player?
That can't be the dividing. That can't be the moment.
So now I'm starting to, now I'm starting to work through the logic. Thank you. Because you're helping me work through the logic and I'm more determinedly on the other side of it. Now I'm correct , or maybe you're speaking to somebody else, David. Um, and that's fine, Stefan. I, I can understand that and good.
The reasoning is what's important here. How would you apply this if you're on the pitch? Are you able to explain to the players and you heard Celine talking to the players saying, first of all, no, I'm not asking my colleague, this is my decision. I saw it. I don't need their help. They are 40 meters away.
Okay. First off, be of all, there was a foul outside, she says, but then there was a push inside. That's what I saw. That's what I'm calling. Okay. So understanding that logic and applying that is also important. And Luke is Team Celine.
Yep. There you go. En Rado. Rados. There. Let's see if we end. Okay. I'll, I'll just end the pole cat, just so you know. So it's, it's the, um, the kebab menu, I think. Oh, no, that's not where it is. Yes, it's the kebab menu right next to the percentage. That's how you end the poll. Wait two minute warning.
And here are the poll results. 74% with the pc. 18% with the penalty stroke. Restart with a bully. You jerks whoever voted for that 27 votes. Thank you very much.
No, I understand. That's a good argument Stijn, but if the ball isn't involved, it's not a foul period. So it's not about separating the ball from the player because you have to be disadvantaged from playing the ball. Where are you disadvantaged from playing the ball? If you push somebody and they don't have the ball, it's just a personal penalty because you're an asshole if you push the player and they can't play the ball inside the 23 inside the circle because my body doesn't have to be inside the circle.
For me to be able to take a ball that is inside the the circle and shoot that at goal, I probably wouldn't do a great job of it, but it is physically possible.
Yeah. Uh, you can imagine that Salina seen, seen, it says Ka, you've seen things like this in some of your games. Yeah. Yeah. It can be small and I hope that helps Stijn and, and again, this is. Like, let's keep flushing this out because I think it's a good, it's a good discussion and because you keep coming back with another point, you're helping me further my own thoughts, cuz I was kind of stuck there going, but is it, and I couldn't think of the objections and knowing what the objections can be.
Knowing the other side helps me figure out what the crack side of the argument is, uh, Gideon with regard to where the push was, Celine had a better view and she could also see the feet. Yeah. All there. Okay.
That's a fantastic discussion, Lily. Enjoyed that. Just to bring up the point that, okay. Can I see where the favorites are? I can. Steven did ask, are there any tips on how to learn this positioning? Hmm, let me think. Maybe there is, maybe there is a course called Mission Critical Positioning that you can sign up for and here it is.
FH empires slash.com. And I know Kat put up the links earlier, but there you go. Um, several people have have been going through it in the last week, I guess, that it's been up. And I'm really pleased with the feedback so far. Next week I'm gonna schedule a time that people can just pop in and live, ask me questions about the course material, and maybe share their experiences trying it or things they wanna know before they try it.
Uh, and all things mission critical. So that will be in a voice channel that's in the learning center, but I will post that in the Discord. Everybody who has the mission critical positioning tag will get pinged. So when you see the little badge and discord that has the number and the, and the red and the, you know, that sort of thing, pay attention to those because you're being pinged because we actually want to get your attention on that.
So you will see that it will be in place. I haven't done this before, but I figure it's gonna be a good way to be able to get some more feedback as well from you all about how the course has gone for you and what you think. Because I want you to be able to absorb the material in your time at your pace, but I also want you to have access, you know, to me.
And because not only will that help you learn more, it will also help me learn more. So, I really do appreciate that and as William very wisely says, do the c p if you want to learn the best possible positioning. Thank you so much. What a nice testimonial. Let, I feel like I need to, um, I need to like screen cap that cuz that's really nice.
Okay. There it is. Oh, I got it. Just before it vanished too. Okay. Oh, last topic. This is gonna be a fast one. It's not. See what I said about the topics? Just filling up the whole show even when you don't think it will be. Oh wait. Um, let's, You're not a plant. I know. Steven. Oops. I'm clicking the wrong thing.
Wait, where do my comments go? Here they are. 138 comments. You guys are awesome. I just saw that number. I've, I've never really paid attention to that before and I'm just That's amazing. Um, yeah. I, I think the impact on the play here, goers is enough that you would, you would give the card and I think with the score line and the time of the game, again, if I were to go back to that, oops, that's the wrong one.
Don't look at that
third quarter. Yeah. I, I, I still think that's, that's worthy of more so I, I'm with you there. That would've been where my leaning was, for sure. Um, let's see. Nick, what do you have to say about the course? God, I hope it's good. I'll be really, really, really tough. So someone comes in and says, yeah, I did it and it wasn't very good, and I think Hillary should gimme my money back.
Oh, you did the CP course with Godders and now you're gonna do it online. Thank you. Work in progress. Yes. And hearing the message from two different people with two different voices. I know this may come as a real shock to you, but Godders and I don't actually say things the same way, probably because I have a terrible accent and he has this, you know, gorgeous English accent and all that kind of stuff.
But when you hear it, sometimes you can hear the very same message. But from a different person, and it can sink in another way. For those of you in the livestream community, you know what I'm talking about. Okay. You'd be happy with a yellow? Yeah, maybe, maybe yellow, depending on what had happened previously in the game.
The fact that Celine doesn't even reach for a there, uh, or reach for a card makes me, uh, sorry. Trends me to think that m maybe not entirely necessary. The stroke is there.
Can you give the, the, the green and the stroke, or does that look Yeah, yeah. I, I guess I can see the yellow, the physical part of it. Sure. Okay. Yep. You've talked me into it. Thanks, Luke. You talked me into that yellow card. You sure did. You love this music? It's good. It's audio with two eyes.com. I have an affiliate link.
It's in the description. Go sign up David. Forget this epidemic sound stuff. I've got the real tunes. Oh my God, you guys do I have to separate you two, Jeanette. You go to that side of the stream, Stephen, you go to that side of the stream. That's enough from both of you.
Okay, next topic. Last topic. Oh my god. Five minutes. Is this an indoor save or is it a hit?
I just get so mad watching red number 10 or 12. That kid I'd be, I'd be coming up and having a word with him.
So indoor, you know what we're dealing with here. Right? Um, speaking of the music, let me restart it again. Um, we do all know the rules, right? But in case you don't, let's revisit them. Just before we start, hi hitting. This is the definition of hitting under the indoor rule book. Uh, and I, I like how it says this is the definition of a hit not permitted indoor hockey, just in case you weren't sure.
I, I don't know why they had to p place that extra emphasis, but so be it striking or slap hitting the ball using a swinging movement of the stick towards the ball. Slap hitting the ball, which involves a long pushing or sweeping movement with a stick before making contact with the ball is regarded as a hit and therefore not permitted.
And then here's the rule 9.7 that deals with playing the ball above the shoulder. This is very pertinent because in the guidance, in the notes underneath the guidance, it gives you some ideas of when you are going to be considering this. And here's the key. You know I have, I have my little diagram out, my little video pencil telestrator.
So let's give this a shot here. This is what we're talking about here. Come on now, you know it should be here. And of course, Chris Palmore. Oh, there we go. Chris Palmore is the indoor guy, so he is all over this. Action right here.
Okay. So when saving a shot at goal, the defender must not be penalized if their stick is not motionless or is traveling towards the ball wall, attempting to stop or deflect the shot. Only if the ball is genuinely. And a goal prevented, should a penalty stroke be awarded? Is that gonna work? Now, do, do, do, do, do.
Okay. If their stick is not motionless, is any of that working? Come on.
You can see it. It's right, it's right there. It's right there.
So the fact that there is an explanation on this really helps you sort out where , okay, I gotta talk to the, the maker of this program having a little problem here where we're trying to go with this rule and when we go back to the.
And you have a look, okay. The player, as you would expect, starts with his stick on the ground because you know he wants to be ready. In order to make this save, he has to move his stick towards the ball. When we interpret hitting, we are almost invariably envisioning this as, are you moving your stick towards the ball in a way that you're actively playing the ball in a direction as opposed to a deflection?
What is the purpose of the no hitting rule in indoor? Is it so that awesome skills like this can't be shown, can't be used? That we don't have anything to share about here? Or is it because we're trying to prevent danger? Because hitting the ball in such close quarters with players whose sticks and hands and everything are directly on the ground and are probably only three meters away, uh, because that's the distance at which we work.
Does the notion of applying a hit here help keep players safe? This is why we talk about the principles. Cuz if you want to get technical and you wanna say, well, these words in this order would lead me to think that this is a hit because the, the stick is moving towards the ball and it's more than 50 centimeters away or more than a meter away, whatever range in that that you wanna apply because it's indoor, that's not the point of this.
He has to move his stick in order to meet the ball. And just because after he makes contact with the ball, his stick moves away because he's reacting to everything. We should not be penalizing this behavior
is. Is this a bad time to start a poll now? Do you disagree with me, Kat? Do you wanna start a poll? , is it a penalty stroke? Is it a penalty corner or it is a center line Restart with a free push. Let's see what happens. I'm gonna go to your comments. You still think it's a hit? I'm just seeing David's comments as I'm scrolling up to try to get, trying to get up there.
Ooh, oh my goodness. Lots of comments.
I, I still saw some more puns from Steven Denman and I just don't even know what, what's happening. So David wants a hit, not a hit. 12 was you as a player, Chris? I would, absolutely, I'd become atcha. Oh man. It's just like, this is an under 15 competition in Australia and I really appreciate our friend. Um, oh shit.
Our, our friend Lockie Hall set this along and I'm so grateful that he provided this clip cuz it's an excellent discussion that we can have on this. Um, and, but this is under fifteens, so that kid's probably like 13 looking at his arms. He's so skinny. He's like, yeah, probably 14. And I would just be like, I'm sorry.
What do you know? Tell me more. Tell me all about your extensive knowledge. Uh, ferrato. It's a long corner. It doesn't matter if the ball was traveling to or cut or out of the goal. That's a good point also to make as well. Ferrato, thank you for if we go back to the rules. Um, and this is actually, oh, let's go here.
Let's go to the rules of hockey. This is the outdoor, just gimme a sec here so that I can get the indoor version up. Okay. This is the indoor version
and this is about playing. Look at the guidance to nine 13. It's so long this comes in the guidance about playing the ball above or playing the ball out of the air. Sorry.
Or am I getting confused? I might be getting confused.
my brain is officially breaking.
Aha. Nine, 10. Sorry. Players not, must not play the ball while it's in the air. Sorry. Look, I'm on the struggle bus today.
Dad actually cuts it off, but it's this one. Okay. Nine 10. Just show up please. Apparently when I actually, um, pay for the product, that's when it stops working. So players must not play the ball when it's in the air, except that a player from team, which did not put in the air, may stop it if the ball in the air is a result of a legitimate shot at goal, which is rebounded from the goalkeeper, blah, blah, blah.
And ah, there's the provision about. A player should not be penalized if the ball isn't actually going into the goal that is somewhere in these rules. And I'm just like, ready to quit
You guys open your indoor rule books and you tell me where it is because I've had it.
My brain isn't working anymore.
Are you? You are. You're so passionate about indoor hockey and I love that. And I, I know you're just so keenly interested. It means a lot to me. Uh, Steven, you don't play indoors, so you take your views with a pinch of salt. Um, uh, it's not a hit. The only way the player gets the stick that high is by a fast movement.
Yeah. . And let me tell you, I have very, very few playing skills, but one thing I am able to do, thank you, tennis background, is play a ball out of the air. And I know that when a ball is going towards my face and I'm ducking outta the way, my stick is gonna move, my body's gonna move, and I'm gonna be imparting some force upon that ball to try to make sure it doesn't blow through my stick and go in the net behind me.
And in the course of deflecting it, I can't just hold my stick passively and just, you've gotta change the directionality a little bit. But I'm not playing it back into the court. I'm not taking advantage of the ability to play the ball outta the air and playing it towards one of my teammates. I'm doing neither of those things.
I'm just making sure the ball goes over the goal and there is no disadvantage to anybody because I've deflected the ball in this way.
So we don't wanna call this, I know. It's almost like they knew it was coming because they have relaxed this. They've, they've relaxed this rule since I was a young one. You still think it's a hit? Yes. So simply a central line restart. That's what you can call it, Rachel Central line. Restart. Is the purpose of the rule to stop someone from hitting the ball from a high ball down the pitch the other way?
Yeah. Or in a way that helps them control it so they can continue. So you can no longer, it used to be a scale that actually a lot of the Canadian players would develop is if a ball had deflected up into the air or come off a goalkeeper and they would take the ball outta the air and pH and they would like, literally like cradle it down.
They'd do your croon, but the other way around and they'd blew and, and play it right down. You can't do that anymore. You can't direct the ball down onto the ground in order to control it. That's not what this player's doing here. He's deflecting it out of play, so it no longer goes towards the goal.
Luke's got feelings which include it not being hit. For you, Chris. It's not a swing of the stick. It's a little shoulder movement. The hands are split on the stick. Very wristy edges. Boy, you're really breaking it down and doesn't propel it anywhere. Yeah, it's just, it's just a flinch. There you go. You don't do the shed.
But it looked like a movement to deflect. Yeah. Um, good to see you Nick. And a deflection for s that said full connection would've propelled it and you'd probably go penalty stroke. Are we therefore rewarding bad skill of by allowing play on? No, because he's not trying to play it. He's not trying to keep in play to take advantage of it.
So I know where you're going with that cp, but I'm, I'm wrapping that up. Go on the other way. There you go. There you go. Pull, pull, pull. Okay. Do you wanna central line re-push ? I love it. Uh, let's see. Luke is deflecting the ball, a deflection of the ball. The ball continues as a similar momentum, but in a different direction.
A stop, the ball loses all momentum and stops a hit the ball increases momentum in a different direction. I like that. That makes sense to me. Do you wanna end the pole cat? See if you can do that. That's roughly how you define physics. Yeah. I don't know physics, but if I did, I'd say you were right. Had they made the contact, they tried to, it would've been a hit forward.
I think that's getting really, really picky. Page 23 says Rosal.
Oh, the page before Get on.
Oh, it's still the 97 that I Keely Dunn. It's a good thing. You're good looking. Okay. Um, it was the, the rule that I had out anyway, I had just forgotten what the second part of it was. If a defender attempts to stop or deflect ball travelers ago, which will actually miss the goal, any use of stick above the shoulder must be penalized by penalty corner, not a penalty stroke.
Like, don't say, well, you were reckless as to whether you, you know, hit that ball out of the air. And I mean, honestly, we're just, we're not looking for this as a foul. We're not looking. To penalize this unless it disadvantages the opposition. Uhoh, we have a physics argument.
Yes, it looks more like a hit and slow mo, but we don't play in slow. Moe gutters nailed it. Ha. You like that? Initial stick movement here is just to play the ball and the stick has to come out quickly to get in off the ball. He's also followed through with the stick, not just move the stick to the ball.
But what's he supposed to do like at the moment, sorry, I'm , but he just can't even imagine making a, trying to make a save as a field player or even as a goalkeeper and like freezing my stick at the moment of contact, hacked in that moment and just not, it, not going anywhere else. Like, holy smokes, what are we expecting of people here?
It's not a massive fall through. You're really on the fence. Get off the fence. Honestly, Chris, get off the fence on this one.
There you go. Um, Jeanette, you wonder if the movement in real time was more about thinking he'd got the angle wrong to get the ball instinct and not deliver it. Yeah. There you go. spelling. Larry,
welcome. To 10 minutes overtime of your very first what up Wednesday, which has been a complete shit show. Hi, it's nice to meet you. I'm glad you're here. Um, please come to the Discord and introduce yourself. I'll be putting up a link in a moment or perhaps one of my fine moderators will add the link in the chat.
It's free. The discord is free. Just come in and say hi to me there cuz I don't live anywhere else. Okay, now we, here's the physics argument. I disagree with that. Luke remaking a hitting, making the ball increase in another direction. My mind goes back to when we call a goalkeeper Pat pet painting. What's painting a shot?
Um, patting a shot probably that's coming high with a save over the back line. We call those deflections too, though. It's the only way they could save it and definitely propelled it another direction, but we called it a deflection. Right, but you're, you're agreeing with Luke in a way because what he's saying is a hit would actually put it back in the opposite direction.
From once. From once it came There you go. Oh. Oh, I'm losing the, I'm losing the, the pole.
Okay. Two minute warning.
I'm ridiculous. The sound effects. What can I do if I don't have the sound effect on my stream deck? I have to make it myself. Okay. That was the last one. So 94% good. Um, we're with the central line. Restart.
Am I trying to influence policy here and change culture? Yes, I am. I think I deserve it. Ah, let's see. and poor Simon. Has d done a a thousand things already today and realized that we're still here. Yes, we're still here. Um, goalkeepers have additional privileges when making, saving, saving actions at the goal, but also a hit has to impute more energy to the ball.
You'd argue paddling, padding like that does not, but they have the same restrictions when it comes to intentionally sending the ball of the end line. So we can draw, I think, a pretty straight analogy between these two things. The, the, the, the factors we take into account to try to determine whether goalkeeper is deflected or played the ball.
It is pretty darn somewhere, but maybe not exact. I'm gonna have to think through that one. I haven't, I haven't done that. Ow. No you don't. We do not need me doing anything of the sort. And we all know about fence sitters and what happens to them. So had it hit the middle of a stick and been propelled forward not down, would that be a penalty stroke?
Um, yeah. Yeah. Even if he propelled it down cuz that that's, that's where the line is. That's where the line is. I think playing it down. There you go. Um, you think that it was the PE stroke. That's okay. David, you are always excuse. You are flying blind
What the hell, what's happened there?
I give up. I literally, I give up
what is happening to this stream,
but it's good cuz it forces you to make a choice if you can't change your poll selection. So I like that. Um, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I enjoyed having you guys here and I thought I'd been copyright stuck again as well. That was tough. Everybody have an amazing hockey week and weekend. Don't forget that this.
Um, here, uh, discord place is, I'm, I'm there all the time except when I'm asleep. But otherwise I'm there all the time and I'd love to have some words. Um, which is the year hockey final. We're going to the eh l European Hockey League final. Not that you're a hockey, which is more, that's the European Championships also gonna go to that spoiler alert.
You're very welcome. Yo, you need to make more comments during that stream. You're like there at the beginning. You're there at the end. I know you've been watching the whole time. I wanna hear from you, man. I wanna hear from you. Um, back to your homework, okay? Get you your homework. Two strings in one evening, and a huddle.
And a tailgate and all that kind of stuff, eh l fam for the win. Okay? Have a great one everybody, and be awesome. And I don't know if this is gonna work. So I might have to, oh boy. Cuz my buttons are all screwed up. This isn't gonna hold pause. Don't anybody panic. I'm gonna have to trigger it manually.
Where is it? Where's the YouTube? Okay, there. It's okay. You ready for it? Thanks for joining in. Thanks for your patience and we'll see you next week.
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